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Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS (Read 780 times)
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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #25 - 05/19/20 at 00:43:56
 
It's hard to correct wrongs after the fact, but as I've learned from Ruso's times being removed from MKWRS, it's never too late to do so.

In my opinion: keep Fox's time, maybe keep Hibiki's time, remove all others.
Reasoning: Fox's time is the earliest case out of these 4, he has the most credibility out of all of these players (with WRs going back as far as 2013), and he's given a good enough reason for his actions. The game modification isn't intentionally advantageous either. While Fox accepts the repercussions of using game mods in TTs, I think that if this were to be the only exception ever made, it'd be a good one.

Hibiki's WR was set nearly a year later and does include the My Stuff warning, which makes his case less compelling for me. Even if he hadn't known the PP's ruleset, he still had a warning right in front of him. On top of that, there is obviously no ghost for the run, which I personally see as a necessary piece of credibility for a WR in this day and age.

However, Hibiki does have legitimate 2:05 DKM ghosts, and has other times on MKLB with ghost proof as well. He's clearly a capable player just like Fox, but we can't be sure about his reasons for using custom music in his WR, especially with the warning on the bottom of the screen. I say, if the community trusts the run enough, keep it. But from a ruleset standpoint, this run should be retroactively removed.

Mel and Kasper are both online players and their runs were set long after both of these cases. I don't doubt that they were aware of the custom music ban, and TT'd with it anyway because they didn't care. Nothing is stopping them from redoing those runs, as they are both extremely capable and credible players. But even if no "official" ruleset was determined at that point in time, I think the message would have been clear enough for everyone.

For Cole's post here, I support 1.0 and 1.1 - I strongly think 2.0 only complicates things. There is room for error with different updaters having different opinions on modded WRs. On top of that, the additional "strike" players would incur can just be easily avoided by enforcing the "no mods, ever" rule from the get go. I get the idea - it's nice to make exceptions for fluke runs by credible players because the run is a WR after all. But the precedent has long been established and as such I see no excuse for players to have this lifeline.

To address Firestone's point about modded ROMs in SM64: I think it's a good point but it always comes back to consensus. It's what the community agrees on that should be the norm, for better or worse. You could argue CTGP isn't 100% equivalent to the way MKW was played in 2008, but the community has accepted it as the new norm because it's a large improvement over vanilla MKW with features that enhance the experience without significantly changing the game. Rulesets should always be changed and updated to what the community agrees on, but in the particular case of custom textures and music, the consensus has been established for so long that I personally wouldn't accept any modded WRs from this point on.

To close out my post, the PP is no longer (or shouldn't be) the central authority for TTs. I hope that authority shifts to MKWRS & MKLB, because it's people like Arvo who make most of the good decisions nowadays. They care about the game & community, and understand all the fundamental issues from every point of view. Having open discussions like this just shows how fair and unbiased these people are - they want you to contribute to the final decision. Revising past issues is a controversial but needed task, and these new gen players always come through with some good points to settle the problem.
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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #26 - 05/19/20 at 02:22:50
 
All of the runs shouldn’t count because they violate the rules. I’m tired of people saying that they count when they clearly don’t. I think it’s important to have a consistent ruleset. I agree with Vinnie because it would be stupid to count them.
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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #27 - 05/19/20 at 02:35:19
 
Arvo57 wrote on 05/18/20 at 12:50:31:
Cole wrote on 05/18/20 at 11:39:41:
If the community decides to remove Hibiki's and Fox's times, I could add another section under "Additional Times" called something like "Modded Track Times", and move those 2 times there. That way there is still a record of the times on the WR site. This could also be used for future times that beat WRs but accidentally/mistakenly use texture/music mods (although hopefully it doesn't happen again).


I don't think we should leave them in a weird state of half-counting and leave the door open for future runs on my stuff. Now that we have the rules in place we should have no problem rejecting runs that break them.


I agree. It's not hard to not edit the game files. No need to specify what edits are and aren't allowed.
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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #28 - 05/19/20 at 06:06:46
 
I'd remove all the times.

For those questioning the custom music rule, again, this must be the thousandth time I've said this (now I know how streamers like Sword/NMeade feel having to answer the same damn basic questions over and over, lol), but changing/removing the music severely reduces nerves/allows for unfair advantages. No music = no nerves, free chains, etc. Changed, enjoyable music = a way more relaxing TT, especially on lap 3.

Whether or not a player used custom music to "gain an advantage", there's no way to accurately track that or know for sure. Total honour system which'd result in a shitshow.
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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #29 - 05/19/20 at 09:23:08
 
Arvo57 wrote on 05/18/20 at 07:18:09:
RosscoXz wrote on 05/18/20 at 07:12:09:
As long as they didn’t technically break any rules for each individual site at the time the run was set then their runs must count on said site.
I think that in all of these cases the subject was probably aware that they would be causing issues so perhaps there is a question of morals but, in summary, rules are rules and if they didn’t break these rules/there were no specific rules then their times must be counted. (And if they break the rules of a specific site (this one) then they must not be counted on this site alone)


The top 10's / MKWrs technically had no rulesets before early 2019, as there were no rules listed on the pages before then.

That’s bullshit, we had rules in place way before then, it doesn’t take officially writing them down on every possible page for rules to exist. lol

This community is a laughing stock.
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I PINNED DOWN KF!TIMUR AFTER 10 FUCKING POSTS

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL GET FUCKED

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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #30 - 05/19/20 at 13:08:17
 
ALAKTORN wrote on 05/19/20 at 09:23:08:
Arvo57 wrote on 05/18/20 at 07:18:09:
RosscoXz wrote on 05/18/20 at 07:12:09:
As long as they didn’t technically break any rules for each individual site at the time the run was set then their runs must count on said site.
I think that in all of these cases the subject was probably aware that they would be causing issues so perhaps there is a question of morals but, in summary, rules are rules and if they didn’t break these rules/there were no specific rules then their times must be counted. (And if they break the rules of a specific site (this one) then they must not be counted on this site alone)


The top 10's / MKWrs technically had no rulesets before early 2019, as there were no rules listed on the pages before then.

That’s bullshit, we had rules in place way before then, it doesn’t take officially writing them down on every possible page for rules to exist. lol

This community is a laughing stock.


-The laughing stock of said community

The pp is far from the most popular site in this community, it’s perfectly plausible that a lot of people that play the game at a high level have never set foot on this website, especially the modern jap community. Not making excuses for him, but he simply cannot be penalised for rules that weren’t on the main two sites.


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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #31 - 05/19/20 at 13:11:03
 
RosscoXz wrote on 05/19/20 at 13:08:17:
ALAKTORN wrote on 05/19/20 at 09:23:08:
Arvo57 wrote on 05/18/20 at 07:18:09:
RosscoXz wrote on 05/18/20 at 07:12:09:
As long as they didn’t technically break any rules for each individual site at the time the run was set then their runs must count on said site.
I think that in all of these cases the subject was probably aware that they would be causing issues so perhaps there is a question of morals but, in summary, rules are rules and if they didn’t break these rules/there were no specific rules then their times must be counted. (And if they break the rules of a specific site (this one) then they must not be counted on this site alone)


The top 10's / MKWrs technically had no rulesets before early 2019, as there were no rules listed on the pages before then.

That’s bullshit, we had rules in place way before then, it doesn’t take officially writing them down on every possible page for rules to exist. lol

This community is a laughing stock.


-The laughing stock of said community

The pp is far from the most popular site in this community, it’s perfectly plausible that a lot of people that play the game at a high level have never set foot on this website.




This^

A large part of people who joined after WFC have no clue what the Player's Page is.

Also, the polls have now been made, please vote there so we can finally be done with this.

Polls:
http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1589922074
http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1589922015
http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1589921949
http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1589921909
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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #32 - 05/19/20 at 14:48:25
 
ALAKTORN wrote on 05/19/20 at 09:23:08:
That’s bullshit, we had rules in place way before then, it doesn’t take officially writing them down on every possible page for rules to exist. lol

This community is a laughing stock.

I think you failed to read the big ass title that Arvo started with
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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #33 - 05/20/20 at 13:28:50
 
None of these should count. IMO.
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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #34 - 05/21/20 at 22:22:11
 
KingAlex said it best imo. All are to be removed.
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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #35 - 05/31/20 at 10:36:14
 
Polls are now closed, results are:

Jan - No
Fox - No
Mel - No
Kasper - No

Removing and replacing all times on MKL now, hoping mkwrs follows soon.

New WR's that need to be added:

Liam's DKM 2:05.754
http://www.chadsoft.co.uk/time-trials/rkgd/C6/63/0172E2C8A414C079DE4DC8C9F7EF...

Blaze's 2:09.962 BCWii glitch
http://www.chadsoft.co.uk/time-trials/rkgd/32/24/1303DB223BD997876E0093083553...
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« Last Edit: 05/31/20 at 10:56:18 by Arvo57 »  

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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #36 - 06/03/20 at 00:03:58
 
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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #37 - 06/03/20 at 00:15:03
 
Kasper wrote on 06/03/20 at 00:03:58:

Thank you for the well articulated and intelligent response! Grin
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Re: Hibiki, Fox, Mel, KasperUS
Reply #38 - 06/03/20 at 03:11:48
 
Kasper wrote on 06/03/20 at 00:03:58:


Fenner level response Smiley
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Kouider_Benarioua wrote on 08/26/12 at 14:51:00:
So instead of acting like a coward saying bla bla it's impossible, you better play if you want to beat me instead of that kiddy mentality.
And to those guys, you have to find another way to beat me, I don't need to fake to crush you. Wink


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