Personally, I think wallride should join rDKJP spiral skip and rGV rockhop as an alternative category, but this is the players page. No alternate categories around here


Mango Man wrote on 03/03/20 at 03:06:26:

ye would be cool to have them on MKL if there's more activity

Mango Man wrote on 04/26/20 at 16:54:42:


Im like 95% sure that you can do the wallride from the same path, its just harder to do and you need a different setup for it, and also the MG wallride also just cuts off a turn a bit more (the normal gap jump), and those who have lost their WRs in this theoretical category would get their WR with the wallride put into the new category.

You can and it is faster to do the sc from the right path but that’s not really relevant anyway

AlexS wrote on 04/27/20 at 07:56:09:

Do you really need 2 different CTGP categories though? Why not just have a leaderboard for it on MKLeaderboards or something?

One other question I have is the difference between the Wario's Goldmine wallbounce after the turnskip and the mushroom gorge wall ride. Assuming you only hit the wall once on mushroom gorge there is no difference between the two except the wall ride being a more extreme example of the property in play than wgm.
Take this clip for example:
https://clips.twitch.tv/HardGentleClipsdadTBTacoLeft
In this clip, daseia only hits the wall one time and redirects his moment in a new direction.
This same property can be viewed here in this clip on wario's goldmine:
https://youtu.be/flbWpr0kbSo?t=30
In this clip, Vincent uses the wall to shift his moment from a downward angle to a more forward angle making it faster.
In both clips, both players use the wall to change the direction of their momentum. Now why is one in the no glitch category and the other recognized only in the glitch category?

Epix wrote on 04/27/20 at 21:20:07:


I understand where you're coming from. Though, those two strats are to it's core pretty different.

You can view the wall bounce on WGM the same way like the rock trick on KC or the low trick on rWS. We hit a wall to make our trick go lower and/or get faster forward momentum.

The MG wall ride is maybe kinda sort of like that. You hit a wall, sure, but it's not like it's used to go lower or get forward momentum. It's more used to extend your trick duration to clear the gap with the added benefit to get a boost when you land back on the road.

However, the wall ride is not treated the same as the other wall hitting strats. This is because the way to perform this strat is to ride the wall the same way we use to perform the ultra sc.
Whether you agree with that or not, that has been thoroughly discussed in the previous thread. But the community has decided to make a separate category for any wall ride strats requiring the rock walls.

Sadly this category hasn't been implemented yet in CTGP-R. So until then we'll have to handle wall ride times manually.

As for the PP, we don't have alternative categories, so wall ride times don't count here, unless submitted as a glitch time.

This sounds like a reasonable compromise between allowing it all together and banning it. Bean said he would also be able to separate the traditional runs with the wall ride runs iirc

Cool. I don't see any issues then.

Epix wrote on 05/13/20 at 11:41:48:


Wait, you’re saying that using the spear on SGB wasn’t an intended mechanic?

Epix wrote on 05/13/20 at 11:41:48:


While I definitely don't disagree with making it an alt category (in fact there has been some discussion in the MKL staff chat to add it), I don't think charts creates a good case for the category.

First of all it isn't new by any means, if you're gonna argue with a decision made by the community you're gonna need a time machine at this point. We can keep drawing lines at game mechanics as much as we want (I wouldn't really say the Jimmy cut abuses game mechanics for example, that's just how slopes work in MKW) but I don't think that's productive and will just lead to a year long argument about the way pixels are travelling on the screen.

With the knowledge we have right now I do think that we'd allow wallride if it was discovered today but I can't see how it's justifiable to backroll a nearly 10 year old rule because we learn more about the inner workings of the game. The WR would likely already be at a mid-low 1:40, if the rules were different.

Technically all no-sc related rules are arbitrary, and while I wish that people had decided differently years ago, I think we don't really have a choice at this point. Allowing this to take over as the new no-sc category would tarnish the entire no-sc progression of the track over the past 10 years. It's a very different case from rSGB spear and DKSC jimmy since MG has been known to be faster for a long time but not well studied thanks to no-sc categories having barely any competition back when the strat was banned.

Alt category, similar to GV rock is probably the best decision here in my opinion (even though people will disagree since GV rock and DKJP spiral have been treated as a legitimate category in the past), even though I think it will lead to CM shortcut and other similar things receiving the same treatment once people get used to the idea.

I'm happy with the thought of it being an alt category on the Alternative top 10s too and I think the decision right now should be between those 2 things - Official or Unofficial alt category.

Basically I think the decision made back then is very bad and I wish the community had allowed wallride, but changing the rules after the game has progressed this much wouldn't do much good.

Just my two cents, at the end of the day it's a collective decision (that has already been voted on once).

Also, I think it’s important to note that doing MG wallride risks missing a lap count.