I'd like to hear some other people's opinions on banning speedometer's as well as shedding some light on the previously unquestioned rule of allowing ghost sharing. Please be sure to read all the arguments listed here because I already know i will get some dumb response defending ghost sharing without any thoughtful input.

For the past few days I've asked several people from the community as to whether we want to ban the use of a speedometer in runs. The general consensus was clear: Ban all modifications during runs period to prevent any potential advantages that it may have to offer. This would remain consistent with banning custom music and textures as previously discussed. However, it is possible to use an old version of DarkFlare's plugin to disable/enable a speedometer mid run and would therefore go undetected. Even with that in mind, a lot of people I asked still agreed we should ban a speedometer anyway to deter people from using it.

This is where I'll bring up the discussion of ghost sharing. Aaron was main person who argued against this before me and his arguments made more sense than anyone else, so I'm inclined to take his side in this.


Mr. Failure 28/12/2019
"I'm aware ghost sharing is impossible to police/prove/disprove etc. but here are some simple facts

custom music-banned: reason for ban because it's not vanilla game, use of hacks, can albeit very very small and very hard to actually make it helpful but can do that

texture hacks-banned: basically the exact same thing written for custom music

ghost sharing-considered legit: use of hacks to acquire ghosts other users are not able to, provides a significant advantage in comparison to what is banned listed above, in fact it is just outright stupidly broken at times.

reiterating it's impossible to catch people using it but why is it always just swept under the carpet?"


My point in this is that if we ban a speedometer for the fact that it is a modification but is undetectable, how do we justify allowing ghost sharing when you can apply the exact same logic? This would heavily screw with any sort of consistency we are trying to establish for any future rules.

Some questions that I've been asked already:

Q: You can race custom ghosts in mkwii and no one says anything about that in their community so I don’t see why it should be treated any differently
A: The reason ghost sharing in MKW I'snt unreasonable is because they have a ghost database, everyone has access to everything, add to this the fact that they have CTGP implemented within their rules.

Q: Anybody is capable of hacking their 3DS, therefore meaning that anyone could get custom ghosts
A: Lots of people have told me they dont think it should be compulsory to hack your DS to prove legitimacy. So why should you be allowed to hack your DS to get an advantage?

Q: We have allowed custom ghosts for years so why would we ban it now?
A: Ghost sharing was introduced in 2015 or something, and before the community even had a say in whether it should be allowed or not, people started abusing it. I'm not trying to overcomplicate things by bringing it up now, I'm just saying we never really established rules or guidelines for it.

I'd also like to address the fact that I know streetpassing is a thing, but I feel it's not really relevant to this because we're obviously an online community.

I think regardless of your view on ghost sharing, it should be obvious that trying to ban it at this point would be a disaster for the community, especially considering how prevelant its usage has become. How would a rule like this even be enforced? Would anyone with someone else's ghost downloaded have to make some sort of protocol video proving that they deleted the ghost from their system? How would you prevent someone from practicing against the ghost at first, and then racing without it once they've learned the track? (Unless using ghosts for practice would still be allowed, in which case the rule would practically do nothing). Wpuld this ban also affect players who want to use hacks to save and manage their own ghosts? For example, I use JKSV to keep separate saves for my glitch and no-glitch times so they don't get overwritten. This seems functionally the same as ghost sharing, but far more ridiculous to ban. What would happen to players who still try to share ghosts after this ban is put into place? Do we really want a black market for mk7 ghosts?

That being said, I recognize that "it would be hard to enforce" isn't always a compelling argument, so I'll also offer some key differences between game modifications like speedometers, custom music, and texture mods; and ghost sharing. For one, you don't actually need to race against someone else's ghost on a hacked system or cartridge. You could easily load a ghost onto your cartridge with JKSV or something, put it in a completely unmodified system, and it would play perfectly fine. The same can't be said for a speedometer. Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration is the information that is presented to the player by the speedometer. A ghost is just a visual representation of inputs made by another player, hardly different from racing your own ghost. The speedometer, on the other hand, is reading a value from the game's memory and displaying it to the player. This is a value that the player is never meant to see during gameplay. Of course, I don't view these arguments as being nearly as strong as the enforceability argument, but I know that isn't convincing for everyone.

In addition to the above, we also have to take the future of the community into account. While it isn't there yet, a long term goal for CTGP-7 is to fill a role similar to that of CTGP-R in MKW. This means a functioning ghost database (or some way to easily share ghosts) along with a far simpler method of proving times as legitimate. To me, banning ghost sharing would just be a step backwards in this regard.

_{also on some level i just like seeing the wrs go down further, and ghost sharing certainly helps with that}

paradox. wrote on 01/12/20 at 01:24:08:


I think it is relevant. Because the developers of Mario Kart 7 wanted us to race each other’s ghost. I have to admit the ghost exchange system turned out to be dissappointing. MK8’s ghost system is way better. In MK7 everybody receives the same spotpass ghost and they seem almost randomly picked. And in Streetpass you receive only one ghost from one track for each player you streetpass.
So a top player doesn’t live far from my place and we agree to meet. I’m happy I have him in my streetpass list and I received one ghost. I am obviously allowed to race against it.
Sharing ghosts online is basically the same thing. Except you don’t have to drive over there and you can choose which ghost you receive.

Catfish wrote on 01/12/20 at 02:20:48:


I think it should certainly be allowed for practice, and yes in that case the rule would practically do nothing.

Catfish wrote on 01/12/20 at 02:20:48:


Another good point.

Catfish wrote on 01/12/20 at 02:20:48:


People keep saying this. But where is your source? I would like confirmation.