InnovΔ wrote on 11/02/19 at 14:55:42:


Well tbf the bks for that track are very weak because laps 2 and 3 are very rarely completed

I have not been at this forums in over 9 years but I could not resist the urge to come shed some light on suiryu because I know a lot more about him than most and he is definitely someone most people outside japan know nothing about.

There's no question at all in my mind that everything he did pre wiimmfi is legit, and universally among the japanese community he was widely revered as the best to ever touch the game in online rooms on wfc, and highly trustworthy despite having won an unprecedentedly massive number of large japanese tournaments. I think based on experience that if anyone had any doubts about his legitimacy on wfc theyd've been voiced by some of the japanese after exactly how much success he had there, but no, you'll find nothing but respect and admiration for him.

However, I agree that specifically the TTs on nagisa's channel in recent years are quite fishy and not like his old level.

Aaron M wrote on 11/01/19 at 18:48:54:



There is a definite possibility that the above theory is correct or something similar, because I can tell you for sure that after wfc shutdown suiryu has had nearly zero interest in anything to do with this game, as he conquered all that there was for him here. I don't know what kind of motivation nagisa could have to do that (maybe to sneakily tarnish suiryu's name for some personal reason if they had a falling out?), or maybe suiryu himself asked nagisa to cheat runs for him out of pride and not wanting his records to be lost after he stopped playing.

The last time there was any thought of suiryu actually playing the game online was in july of this year when many people thought that a japanese mogi lounge alt using the same controller as suiryu was him. it had with a few good TTs on DDR and MG and used miis similar to his and a few other old top japanese players. it joined lounge and rose to platinum, but the alt (which you can find at https://www.mariokartboards.com/lounge/rt/player.php?pid=1294) quit playing on its own and while the identity was never revealed, someone on staff with full and definite knowledge of who it was told me that it was not suiryu but another old and famous strong player.

Around the same time the alt was playing in platinum MMR there was some actual confirmed contact with suiryu, he made a new twitter and spoke to us on it for around a month, as well as live streamed himself playing some visual novels in japanese on his old and famous niconico account (https://com.nicovideo.jp/community/co900000) and interacted with everyone there and confirmed the twitter is his. however, he denied the alt was his when asked about it and denied having played the game (online) since wfc, although to my knowledge there was no mention of his recent TTs on the streams at all.

He eventually revealed to us while genuinely crying and in a pained voice that his personal life is horrible and that he's in serious financial trouble from losing his job and his family doesn't care about it and some other bad things before deleting the twitter and not streaming anymore around august after that stream. the point I want to get across with this is that mkw is the furthest thing from suiryu's concerns at this moment and that he was only here to speak to his friends from the game and reflect on the past.

Therefore, my (I'd like to think educated) opinion is that the best choice is to make all the times he "set" post wfc pending times and keep the rest. There is a small chance that those times are legit and that he has still been time trialing occasionally for all this time and that he just doesn't understand ctgp because he has never had any interest in playing online, but I think its far more likely that he either cheated them out of pride for what he did before or that he put nagisa up to cheating them for him or that nagisa is trying to sabotage him. You're definitely not going to get any kind of response from suiryu himself about anything mkw anytime soon unfortunately but I think unlisting those is for the best, and maybe unlisting all of them may provoke some response from him?

However, anything he did pre wiimm in my opinion is most definitely legit. he consistently displayed the level of skill online needed to set those times not even just in his completely unparalleled good results but in his regular driving, and nobody around him who constantly had to endure being defeated by him ever had questions about him despite his success in an age where many more cheated than in the current day.

Aaron M wrote on 11/01/19 at 18:48:54:


Interesting theory for sure, especially considering that any scenario would require Suiryu having the capacity to load homebrew apps on his Wii to either record his own run with live replay, or the ability to extract ghosts to send them for Nagisa to record, which would raise some questions over him not using CTGP post-2015.

But I still personally believe that these times are set by the real Suiryu for a few reasons, regardless of their legitimacy. If you've played the game for long enough, you'll start to notice that each TTer has their own distinct playing style that you can often identify based on how they drive certain turns. Comparing both players, Suiryu and Nagisa have radically different styles, which is partly related to the fact that they use different controllers. It's helpful that both Suiryu and Nagisa TTed BCWii at high levels within a year of each other, and comparing both of their times certainly shows some noticeable driving differences. The way Nagisa drives on BCWii seems pretty consistent with his typically rigid and choppy lines that you see on other tracks he played (e.g. rDS and rBC), which doesn't show too much soft drifting. In contrast to Nagisa's relative lack of soft drifts, Suiryu was actually one of the game's earliest pioneers of the technique, which made him influential on tracks like GV2 in the game's earlier years. As you would expect, his driving on BCWii is a lot more smooth and clean than Nagisa's. And this isn't even getting into the massive amounts of technical differences between their runs, which anyone could notice from comparing the videos (e.g. the strats they use for the geyser tricks and the zipper ramps).

Outside of this evidence, I don't really see a solid motive for Nagisa to fake WRs under another player's name. I also don't think it's too unusual for someone already disconnected from the community to keep contact exclusively with a close friend, especially when said person is rumored to be an IRL friend.

That being said, Suiryu's more recent WRs have always seemed sketchy to me. People seem to mainly point to his BCWii runs, but I'm personally more suspicious of his CM NG run. Even though it was beaten by Jascha using the same strats, the amount of escalator luck he got is basically inhuman from my perspective. Since the amount of airtime you get off escalators is determined by which part of the moving stairs you land on, it's categorically impossible to predict their outcome in a real time run. He got remarkable luck on all five escalators, getting the lucky low airtime with 100% consistency. He even stuck to the ground at the top of the final escalator, which is a rare outcome that you can't predict or control.

However, this isn't to say any of this is impossible for a legit player to pull off. It just sets off a few red flags when the same player is surrounded in so much controversy to start with. We'll never be able to completely determine the legitimacy of these times without a ghost, but this reaction from the community is completely reasonable, especially based on what we now know about Nagisa.

Dolphin ghost desyncs were fixed on version 4.0-2729

Agree with what Firestone and Blaze said. Keep all his old runs and pend his post shutdown runs with no ghost