So Nagisa used Rapid Fire aswell back in the day. I think people missed it in the 2012 cheating affair.

Tweet:

https://twitter.com/MKRFirestone/status/1188909429699121152

There might be more info aswell. Feel free to post it here if you know something.

--

Also there is a new tool that detects unhuman inputs better than the one from the past. I dont know a thing about it.

From what I've been told, Marco has illegal inputs in some of his ghosts (can't remember which ones). The illegal inputs are from using a GCN controller on Live Replay on a run initially set with Wii Chuck or Wheel.

EDIT: After further review the illegal inputs was from others recording some of his ghosts

Vega wrote on 10/29/19 at 14:04:49:


So he used live replay?

And why hasn't Nagisa been removed yet?

I have verified that Nagisa's 2:31.942 used Rapid Fire (wheelie input every other frame). It's also clear from the ghost viewer if you watch it frame by frame: http://www.ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/ghostviewer.php?id=14682

Since the input viewer has some bugs, it's important to verify the inputs by looking at the inputs in the decoded ghost file. Myself and others have checked that and verified it's Rapid Fire, example: https://twitter.com/MKRFirestone/status/1188909429699121152

His WRs after that show no signs of cheating. Back in 2012, myself and Maschell caught cheaters using a mix of automated and manual checking. For example, Nooboss was caught from Maschell's automated checker, and some others like Jay were caught by me manually checking ghosts. For Nagisa I definitley checked some of his ghosts and found no signs of cheating. Unfortunately, I only checked his more recent times and missed this 2:31.942 run from 2010. I checked ghosts for pretty much all the top players from that era but mainly just checked a sample of their best times.

There hasn't been a mass automated check of the database with all the techniques we know about. The new technique of checking if GCN ghosts have impossible control stick inputs is creative, but I think the traditional live replay check would catch most of those anyways (checking if any 2 ghosts share the same starting inputs, which was used to catch people like Malleo). I guess the only new case it catches is when a GCN player copied a Nunchuck/Wheel ghost when we don't have the Nunchuck/Wheel ghost available.

I ran an automated check for live replay on a bunch of the GV2 ghosts a few years ago but didn't find anything new. I thought about running automated checks on the entire database (including for rapid fire) but decided not to spend time doing that, since I didn't really expect much to come out of that. I guess that would have caught Nagisa, who unfortunately slipped through the cracks and was able to set "WRs" as late as 2015 without people knowing about this cheated 2010 run. It's nice that there are other people who are looking at the ghost inputs and discovering new things (apparently it was Star who caught Nagisa).

Anyways, all of Nagisa's times have been deleted from mkwrs. The cheated run was his 2nd WR, done in May 2010. Obviously we can not trust any times done after that, even though they show no signs of cheating. It's possible he switched to an undetectable cheating method, like Mander did.

For his 1st WR (TF 1:51.547 on 2009-08-30), it's likely that run wasn't cheated since the wheelie rapid fire code wasn't public yet. However, there were other cheat codes that were public at that time, and we don't have the ghost available to check. So I think it's better to remove this time as well.

New times that have been added as a result of Nagisa's times being deleted:
2010-08-11: rDS 2'05"523 by Sword - 42"111 42"068 41"344 - https://youtube.com/watch?v=AOh7YStEbhA
2015-05-16: rDS 2'04"942 by Totom - 41"828 41"813 41"301 - https://youtube.com/watch?v=oRZnmZg28Mk
2013-07-22: rBC 2'31"507 by Rusox -  50"547 50"413 50"547 - https://youtube.com/watch?v=YdbTLB0D1fw

There still might be more to add.

The backup of the deleted times, for reference:

Code:

1472,"Nagisa","G1☆なぎさ","Japan","2009-08-30","Toad's Factory",111547,"Funky Kong","Bowser Bike","http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmGgZeD8q6E",0,0,4,0,-1,"GC","37.374","37.217","36.956","?-?-?","","",0
1667,"Nagisa","なぎさ","Japan","2010-05-24","N64 Bowser's Castle",151942,"Funky Kong","Bowser Bike","http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0v07HpV3oQ",105,0,32,0,-1,"GC","50.727","50.656","50.559","?-?-?","","http://www.ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/ghostviewer.php?id=14682",0
1719,"Nagisa","fs なぎさ","Japan","2010-09-16","N64 Bowser's Castle",151857,"Funky Kong","Bowser Bike","http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6lIAphEvf4",1,0,32,0,-1,"GC","50.733","50.578","50.546","?-?-?","","http://www.ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/ghostviewer.php?id=60015",0
1729,"Nagisa","fs なぎさ","Japan","2010-10-17","DS Delfino Square",125502,"Funky Kong","Bowser Bike","http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsPn0cHeCEg",27,0,23,0,-1,"GC","42.250","41.981","41.271","?-?-?","","http://www.ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/ghostviewer.php?id=56872",0
2096,"Nagisa","なぎさ","Japan","2012-11-05","N64 Bowser's Castle",151621,"Funky Kong","Bowser Bike","http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCtUMk1E86A",217,0,32,0,-1,"GC","50.714","50.447","50.460","?-?-?","","http://www.ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/ghostviewer.php?id=21232",0
2148,"Nagisa","なぎさ","Japan","2013-06-10","N64 Bowser's Castle",151604,"Funky Kong","Bowser Bike","http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQLreVOqXrg",8,0,32,0,-1,"GC","50.532","50.363","50.709","?-?-?","","http://www.ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/ghostviewer.php?id=22921",0
2151,"Nagisa","なぎさ","Japan","2013-06-18","N64 Bowser's Castle",151580,"Funky Kong","Bowser Bike","N/A",0,0,32,0,-1,"GC","","","","?-?-?","","",0
2152,"Nagisa","なぎさ","Japan","2013-06-18","N64 Bowser's Castle",151492,"Funky Kong","Bowser Bike","http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B4K9gJxnp0",44,0,32,0,-1,"GC","50.589","50.475","50.428","?-?-?","","http://www.ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/ghostviewer.php?id=24231",0
2285,"Nagisa","ターミナルパニック","Japan","2014-10-02","Bowser's Castle",141313,"Funky Kong","Bowser Bike","http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb2AocM-AfQ",242,0,15,3,-1,"GC","47.148","47.186","46.979","?-?-?","","",0
2324,"Nagisa","Player","Japan","2015-04-29","DS Delfino Square",124909,"Funky Kong","Bowser Bike","http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgRt-pq0BmA",18,0,23,0,-1,"GC","41.930","41.848","41.131","?-?-?","","",0

InnovΔ wrote on 10/29/19 at 09:25:50:

It's conceivable the two have conspired together at least once. Still cannot wrap my head why Suiryu's 2:21.070 and 2:20.893 BC are official while the .475 is not, when all 3:
1. Have the same insufficient proof validation.
2. Are dated after the launch of CTGP Revolution.

In the wake of Nagisa's exposure, every Suiryu WR uploaded by Nagisa should be removed IMO. There is NO PROOF these records were ever legit. The community only recognized them because Nagisa was trusted. Obviously that trust has been blown out the door, leaving 0 weight and credibility to these four Suiryu WRs.
The ghosts are not driven on CTGP. The ghosts are not available on the database. No communication with Suiryu himself to confirm if it was even him who drove them. Need I say more

Nagisa has been removed from MKLeaderboards aswell.



Batman5112 wrote on 10/31/19 at 21:25:21:



Gonna have to agree here.
Suiryu has always been a sketchy player, he's only ever been accepted on the tops because he's been around for a while, if he popped up today he would never be taken seriously. At this point he has the same credibility as Nim did.

Now that his only contact in the community has been busted, I think we should at least consider that the guy who was friends with a cheater and already has a sketchy run we don't count, should be banned. The probability of him being a cheater is pretty high, I think it would be foolish to believe him after this.

Further discussion would be nice, I'd love to hear more opinions about this.

(Funny though, BCWii WR would probably still be like a 2:21.2 without the rivalry between him and DK)

Chrono Krysster II wrote on 10/31/19 at 22:52:27:


i am on this picture and now i'm feeling uneasy

hahaae wrote on 11/01/19 at 00:37:46:

Rapid fire being OK within Japanese gaming community is nothing new. This stems from the fact back in the ’90s Nintendo released official controllers with auto fire in order to better deal with the retardedly difficult rapid fire tasks in ’90s games like whatever that thing was in Chrono Trigger where I think you had to drink a buncha drinks.

OK I kinda haven’t really verified any of that but it was a nice story so I wrote it. I do think it’s true. In a game I used to run for example, Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim, the RTA leaderboards are separate for the Japanese version, because Japanese runners use auto fire to mash through text and mash a sword’s ability in order to do a special attack as fast as possible, which overall saves a lot of time and effort in the run. They don’t think this is cheating, this is just Japanese speedrunning. I think the reason is what I mentioned in my story, but I don’t actually know for sure. Now that I think about it, there is something else they do in their category that I deem cheating– deleting game files in order to not trigger cutscenes so they’re skipped. lol

Yeah Japanese speedrunning is kinda retarded. Their timing method is also fucking stupid, you might’ve noticed in some games that they run the game all through the ending credits and end their RTA at truly the end, instead of just at like the last input of the last boss fight like any sane person who doesn’t want to watch 10 minutes of a cutscene just to split their time would.

Based on the ghost ID of Nagisa's 2:31.942 (14682), it seems that the ghost was uploaded in January 2013 from Dχ Clyde's save file: http://www.ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/profil.php?id=3260058805

So the ghost was not available in Summer 2012 when most of the cheaters were caught.

It's kind of like the Mander situation where we are lucky that someone had this one ghost, since his other ghosts show no sign of cheating.

If anyone else has old ghosts on their Wii, it would be nice to upload them to ninrankings, either for the WR site or to maybe find more cheaters...

@KingAlex

Yes summoningsalt did mention in his RR wr history video that players would shave down a bump on the back of the d-pad in smk do get drifts faster, not sure if it was just Japs though.