Should be glitch, cutting a portion of the track that definitely wasn’t intended to be possible, also isn’t just a “corner cut”.

2 Important points for a Glitch are:

- Respawn
- Going through walls to reach that point

It's both not applicable in this situation. Cutting a part of the track isn't a good reason to call it a Glitch. But I could understand it if you would cut the half track.
Matthew Huinker (AR holder from rBC1 said it cuts like 2 seconds.)
rDDJ glidercut cuts that too or even more and that's not called a glitch.

1) "on rBC1 you’re using a barrier that you’re not even supposed to be on in the first place" : how can you say such a thing. Are you in the head of developers? Did you speak with them? Plus, NG WR uses walls forever. Making a NG or G category by guessing what developers thought is ueless. Ballon boost, gap cut on rMG,... can you tell which are possible on purpose? Nope.

2) Some cuts save indeed more than that cut found by Thomas, for example rDDJ final gider SC. That SC is litteraly comparable to Thomas's SC: normal roads (parallel) separed by a non-drivable area (montain or lava), if you cut too much, it doesn't count (respawn on DDJ, no lap count on BC1).

3) Who cares if that saves or cut more than glitch does. It's safe to say glitches are probably the thing developers didn't intend to create. If a cut saves more than a glitch, that makes that glitch useless. Point. There are a bunch of good respawn in the game. They don't save enough compared to some strats (example: MW final respawn, which was used in some G WRs in the past. Then we found gliderbouce was faster, so this glitch became useless).

4) Like Martijn said, no respawn involved, and you don't drive through any texture. That's litteraly the 2 only things which can make it a GLITCH, since 2011. In MKWII, there is a "SC category", no glitch one. Furthermore, than SC category is the official one on the WR site. How can those 2 games be compared therefore.


The ONLY  valid argument (my opinion) is that the lap being count by the game is a random thing (for the moment). We think that's because there is a checkpoint at the limit. But that lap in the video was perhaps valid because he touched the lava after the cut. If that's the case, that would mean a checkpoint has been passed and lava is a way to "fool" the game. But in that case, that SC wouldn't be faster anyway. And it wouldn't mean either this SC should be considered as a glicth: NBC shroomcut would have, if it's the case, the same mechanics (indeed, if you do the shroomcut, then touch the road and fell off AFTER the cut, you will get the respawn where you've entered the cut approximately, which means you haven't reached the following checkpoint after the cut). So you see that's not an argument finally.

In conclusion, there is absolutely no argument to make it a glitch, at least I haven't read one valid to my eyes.

Well anyway, length cut in this track is much more less than in NBC, rDC or rMT, where lap counts without any problem. It's for me thanks to the lava, until someone shows a video where lap counts without touching the lava...

Then I think the decision is made.
Should I close the poll?

Batman5112 wrote on 08/02/18 at 13:49:19:


Exactly. I think the main difference between this and rDDJ/rMG is that the developers certainly knew the glider cuts would be possible. I just don’t see how a shortcut like this could be catigorized as normal play rather than a glitch, respawn or not.

OMFG I thought I was clear enough.

1) YOU CANNOT infer if a strat was intended or not by the developers. Was ballon boost intended. Was gap cut on rMG WITHOUT glider intended? Was turncut on NBC intended? Was the BC1 cut intended? Was the rMC2 WR strat intended? MP grind? You cannot say one of those was and not the others. So that's a POINTLESS argument to consider it as a glitch or not.

2) We have NOT enough knowledge to say if this strat requires to touch lava, to be enough on the right,... So we CANNOT say it abuses checkpoints or whatever atm. The principles of A GLICTH WR ON MK7 are NON-EXISTENT when you see this SC. And talking about checkpoints when WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THEM, even on other tracks, is a dumb thing. Example: do you know if you are skipping any checkpoint by doing the rCM2 WR strat? No. Perhaps you are skipping one, then passing the following checkpoint make the lap count. Same for NBC. I didn't say you had to manipule the game for BC1 PLEASE READ CORRECTLY, itr was just a possibility.

And please stop talking about MKwii that's dumb. Because as I said, the categories are normal WRs + non-SCs WRs, which is VERY different from No-glitch /Glitch.

And Kleenex, TvK was just approving my post, did you prefer a copy/past from him??!

EDIT: on BC1, you can cut even much more of the track but it won't count. You can cut less, cf. WR strat lap 1 where you are cutting the corner and even jumping over a part of it out of a MT. And the lap counts. So, if you can cut more on the track and make it count, why the fuck shouldn't it be a no glitch WR? WWe are just talking about succeeding a strat which doesn't break any of no-glitch rules.

BMence wrote on 08/02/18 at 17:08:45:

It's safe to assume you're skipping a key checkpoint then. Lets look at your example:
BMence wrote on 08/02/18 at 17:08:45:

a. if you were skipping a checkpoint here, how come rbc1 won't count despite driving by checkpoints at the end of the level?
b. if you weren't skipping a checkpoint here, wouldn't this conclude you are skipping a checkpoint at rbc1 because it doesn't count?

as we extensively know about the checkpoint system in mkw, mkw isn't completely useless to bring up. it is prior knowledge you can bring to the table in a discussion like this one. Yes we know nothing about the checkpoint system here, but not only shouldn't you rule out the possibly it operates similarly/identically to mkw, you shouldn't exclude the issue because we know nothing about how it works. Your current rules for non-glitch already deal with checkpoint manipulation in the form of respawn glitches. Here you are taking the exact same "sc" just without the respawn giving you a helping hand. Remember respawn alone doesn't constitute respawn glitches to be glitches.

BMence wrote on 08/02/18 at 17:08:45:


Oh, don't mind me, I'm just memeing.

BMence wrote on 08/02/18 at 19:10:35:

Not MW.
this doesn't really answer my concern. Respawn glitches are a thing because you tricked the game into believing you fell from somewhere else (i.e., the game determines you must be at a further checkpoint rather than the actual last checkpoint you were at). So now, lets trick the game again, required to count the lap, but this time we'll avoid falling off and land on the track instead. In essence, it's the same principle. Same glitch.
NicholasRen wrote on 08/02/18 at 20:39:10:

Whatever the case it won't affect scrubs like us

NicholasRen wrote on 08/02/18 at 20:39:10:


Well according to the coding of the game and tests ive done in-game the “out of bounds” is farther down the track

Thomas and CatFish used this strat in their PR's yesterday.

Thomas 1:10.756 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJr7x6U4B2Q (Would be NG WR.)
Catfish 1:10.820 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9iDHh-dEyk (Would be 3rd WW NG.)
Flap 21.281 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx5g-CDPEJ0 (Would beat the previous NG BKF by over a second.)

Both 3 lap runs are failed runs.

Here some important points mentioned in the mk7 discord server today:

- how is jumping into the lava to hit the checkpoint a glitch, while jumping wide to hit the checkpoint isnt
this gapcut is just a faster way of doing the glitch
- you are abusing checkpoints just as much as you are with the normal respawn glitch
unless respawning is somehow a glitch i dont see how one is a glitch and the other isnt
if you ask my opinion we should drop the word "glitch" entirely and just use sc/non-sc
then you can actually have a discussion about what should be what
- Statement: Just make 3 categories / Answer: 1/ BC1 isn't the only track which has SC. It's a shortcut as well as many others in other tracks.
2/ Makes it confusing for the PP ranking/WRs
so would you make a category for guys using gap cut?
Glidercut if it's used one day on WS?
Turncut?
- People have voted, maybe should vote again
- on nbc you hit every key checkpoint in the intened manner
with rbc1 you're hitting a checkpoint in midair that you're supposed to hit while driving on the ground

I think this are important statements.

The time has come to make a final judgement.

Frederiek wrote on 12/01/18 at 04:08:19:


You forgot to mention the point that there's a checkpoint in the air. CatFish also said it doesn't work online.

Some other points mentioned later:

- In mkw you dont need to skip checkpoints for it to be glitch category.
For example desert hills shortcut is in glitch category because it has a wall clip which is not intended, bowser castle also because you go through a wall, gba bc3 also because it messes up with the physics, and more. Even stuff like beam bounce on wgm or wall climb on mg are banned in no glitch category because they are glitches in the game mechanics.
By that logic - jump boosting as done in rbc1 should be glitch/sc category because its not an intended mechanic
- Question how do you know this is patched online ?
I think it's because it uses the same respawn as the traditional glitch, stupid question lol
Answeryes it does
- Ig if the sc doesn't work online it has other issues left up for debate
- bc3 cut and bc1 cut a similar area of the track

You have seen the rBC3 sc in mkw? It's exactly the same idea and Eleking said it doesn't count as non-sc.