Yxshi wrote on 12/05/17 at 08:27:17:


I hope you mean 'why doesn't he have more help', because he's doing a grand job.

His 'ego' was not in the way.  It'd be a little different if he deleted Fox's time had he not beaten it yet

Sword's run used before the rule was set should stay.  If you guiys can't comprehend this....


If we allow one mod, people are going to try to weasle others in.  "Oh, music wasn't abused! Let's put in the speedomoter" and then they'll try to cl;everly weasel in evn more...

Cole wrote on 12/05/17 at 16:04:35:



We ought to come to  a decision fast then.

Oh and what's the deal with 2013 bc64 wr??


RosscoXz wrote on 12/05/17 at 12:01:54:


They do save anyway!  On tracks with multiple sound channels only.


Fox wrote on 12/05/17 at 11:32:17:


wasnt sure if this was an offensive term or not.  Glad it isn't.  it's convenient.



how is custom textures a problem on wifi??

"disallow quiet/silent BGM"

inb4 debate about "this guy's volume is .025 decibels too quiet" "yeah but my house is like a library while most houses are more noisy" or some shit. We should just ban wheelies in general (and make funky/daisy/toadette the only playable chars) since they require sound to hear and if there's no necessary sound to hear in the game we don't have to worry about volume.  just funky wheely-less on straights.

"As an aside, I personally think multi-ghost shouldn’t be allowed since it’s a mod of the game and is impossible in vanilla MKWii. I think Bean should disable it for Nintendo track TTs (but it should work when viewing ghosts).
"

Hah even that's an advtanage you can't really have without an SD card.  You can see where your PR's/opponents gain on you the most, and other things might stand out.  The comparison is just.... useful.


--
Fox wrote on 12/05/17 at 11:32:17:


Honestly the saddest news of the thread.  I was hoping you were just temp inactive.  I hope you can continue battling and pushing the meta.  Your talent is truly something else.


Why do the ghosts save to the no sound triggers course when it's intended to not save at all? if fox was playing, say, mmm and not bc with custom music, he'd not have any ghost at all Would he be trusted then?

Fox wrote on 12/05/17 at 12:31:57:


How so?
"the no-sc category is legit dead within the japanese community, they don't care about it at all. "

don't they just tell from the Wr's site that people don' use it?

---


note to self to help instantly mentally label what people r supporting:



1's == ban everything.
2 = allow exceptions if not advantageous, you get strikes.
3.allow bgm.
 4. allow mods if preapproved
 5. everything goes.

Here are some ideas to improve CTGP to help with these rules. I’d be interested to hear from Bean what he thinks about these features and how feasible they are:

a) Add an additional message when mods are enabled for Nintendo tracks, such as “A time set with modifications won’t count on any leaderboards, and won’t be considered WR”.

This would help prevent cases like Hibiki’s from happening, there would be no excuse for not knowing the rules.

b) Add a message (and possibly block ghosts from saving) when the player is playing on a no sound trigger version of a Nintendo track (or other minor mods that change the SHA1).

Maybe this can be done by checking the SHA1 of a certain part of the track file that’s rarely edited/modified?

In Fox’s case this would have prevented the ghost from being uploaded. I could also imagine a case where someone plays on mute and doesn’t realize they are playing on the wrong version of the track.

c) Disable the method of racing multiple ghosts on Nintendo tracks.

As mentioned previously, using the “Start Race” option when viewing multiple ghosts allows you to race multiple ghosts and still save the ghost on a Nintendo track.

d) Make it more seamless to switch from Wifi (with mods on) to Nintendo track TTs (with mods off).

Basically this would be useful in the scenario Fox describes:
Fox wrote on 12/05/17 at 11:32:17:


When he loads BCWii the game could just ignore the mods he has on and load the vanilla track. Then when he goes to wifi it could set the mods on. I’m not sure how feasible this is since I believe the current method overwrites the original files when the game it booted.

Maybe a way to do this would be to have a message pop up when selecting “Time Trials”. If MyStuff mods are detected the game shows a message saying “Would you like to disable modifications to time trial Nintendo tracks?” and clicking it would quickly reload the correct files and go to the time trial select screen. Then when quitting and going on Wifi the game would reload the original mods. This would make it much faster and wouldn’t require the player to go into the settings menu each time.

---

I feel that the 2.0 option might not be needed if some of the above features are implemented, because then there would be no reason for anyone to accidentally use mods or not know about the rules. Then we could choose either 1.0, 1.1 (to keep Hibiki’s and Fox’s times), or a 3.x to allow custom music. It seems 4.0 and 5.0 don’t have much support.

Strongly for 1.0, but I'm fine with 1.1 as well. I'm indifferent to whether these times count, but 1.0 is the safest and best option in my opinion, the only reason I'm for 1.1 is because it feels strange to punish or discount people's times due to rules that are not written on the site, while both Fox's and Hibiki's runs were mistakes in different ways, punishing people for rules that do not exist is not something that I feel is very fair.

Strongly against all other options. There is absolutely nothing to gain from allowing modifications or making rules more subjective. Our rules have worked for years and there is no need to change them.  

RosscoXz wrote on 12/05/17 at 12:01:54:

The message simply says that the ghost will not save, nowhere in our rules does it state that a ghost must be present for the time to count. There are many high level runs that do not have ghosts available but still count.

To extend on what Fox was saying, the Japanese community has always done things their own way. The Japanese community has had an entirely different ruleset for Wi-Fi rooms+matches since 2008, and they've never had a rule against Custom Music. It's not only the language barrier that stops them from knowing our rules, but also the fact that the only place that shows these rules is a thread on this forum, and how many Japanese MKW players do you see using this forum? It's different if they are aware of the rule and choose to ignore it, then it is not the site's fault, but if they simply have no idea it exists then it's on the site to make sure that there is a rules page available for people to follow.


Also, there should be a discussion as to whether or not modded controllers should be banned. I've heard that some people have modified their controller to disable certain inputs (such as tricks) to completely remove the potential of human error regarding trick direction. While some may argue this is only to combat faulty controllers, this opens up too many possible ways to cheat in my opinion. Artur was banned for remapping his wheelie button to Y and this can be achieved through modifying one's controller as well, or if you want to go very far, a controller modified with rapid fire is also a possibility (some third party controllers have these if I recall correctly).

Regarding a rules page in both English and Japanese, the Japanese translation can be taken care of by https://twitter.com/BRITISH_mkw as he is fluent in English and Japanese and he has already offered to help with the translations. If you contact him through Twitter he will be very open to helping. mkzubola on twitter is also fluent in Japanese and English, and has done translation work in the past, but I believe British will be easier to contact and more willing as he is still active in the community.

I caught British using rapidfire...

Im fine with removing hibiki, but then we have to remove Fox's BCWii time too

Cole wrote on 12/04/17 at 17:25:30:


Bean intended to block multighost on Nintendos while racing them, but there was an oversight so its possible to abuse a glitch to race them

I am in favor of keeping the current rule (1.0) but I think Fox makes a fair point of how aware the whole community is of the ruling.

Obviously any modification of SZS files should be disallowed. This means custom textures, removing sound triggers, etc

On the 3.x rules, all audio modifications go through the revo_kart.brsar file. This file stores all the character sounds, item sounds, and music loop points. Unless there is an automatic, programmeable way to determine whether only loop points are modified, 3.0 and 3.1 is unenforceable. We should either allow all sound mods or no sound mods. edit: Modding game files is a huge technical rabbit hole that we shouldn't go down ever. I am against all 3.x rules

Some more points I'd like to make:

1. Even if we assume Hibiki didn't know about the rules, Ruso didn't know about the texture rules when he set his first rBC times, yet his times weren't allowed either until he removed the mods.

2. If any changes in rules regarding mods is made, CTGP would have to get updated to reflect those rules. Coding is hard, and not all of the changes being suggested will be practical to code. For example, you can't check whether a course file was changed "a little" or "a lot" because the SHA1 hash will change dramatically with the tiniest change. It's how encryption works. Same applies to checking the revo_kart.brsar which I mentioned in my previous post.

3. It seems like to me, the one thing that should be changed is for CTGP to word things more explicity. It should say that "times won't count on leaderboards if mods are on" rather than "ghosts won't save if mods are on", as the latter doesn't 100% imply the former.

is there a way to get ghosts done on disc channel to ctgp's database? i still tt on disc because its faster and more convenient, added bonus of i never have edited shit

^that ninranking thing sound fine, yeah, thats always been the acceptable way to play.  you cannot mandate CTGP to TT.


"This would help prevent cases like Hibiki’s from happening, there would be no excuse for not knowing the rules."

language barrier? will he text display in native language?

"In Fox’s case this would have prevented the ghost from being uploaded. "

so? you dont need a ghost for proof apparently (niyake) - just the players word seems to count.

What does no sound triggers even disable  - ie, what are sound triggers, say, on BC?


I persoally have a blast racing multiple ghosts. Its fun.  but yea too advantageous.  maybe make it so ghosts cannot save this way?  with a SMALL warnign message in the corner saying "using multighost - run wont count offciially)


''The idea is that you uncompress the track file, and look at a certain part of the file (e.g. the section of the file that contains the track vertices) and take the SHA1 of that, and compare it to the Nintendo tracks. I think it would be pretty easy to make a script on a computer to check if a track is a slightly modified Nintendo track or not. Of course, it would be more difficult to code this on CTGP itself''

depends on how subtle it gets

What are you talking about?  I made 6 posts.  At least 75% of the threads were from less than 2 years old and/or are very active/hot topics used today like wrs topic and I made genuine messages for each. Was also dead for >24 hours.

This thread was six slots down and shows new posts, no need for the bump/call out.

Arvo57 wrote on 12/18/17 at 00:20:45:

Vega wrote on 12/18/17 at 08:22:18:

I recall you saying that we should take our time and not rush this. What makes that statement untrue as of now?