A potentially more important thought, it might be worth mentioning that there is no clear rule about whether racing with multiple ghosts on is legal/illegal (unless I missed something). When I first downloaded the CTGP I didn't even think twice, I thought MrBean was a genius. I realized I could race against multiple ghosts and got so excited and thought that shit was sick. Shortly after it occurred to me that that could be frowned upon but there was no clear rule at the time and when you race multiple ghosts and PR, your ghost still saves and uploads to the CTGP (unlike when you race with MyStuff mods, removed music, etc.). I'm also assuming it's impossible to track. Thoughts?

AlexS wrote on 12/04/17 at 05:51:55:


Personally I think it is a great feature, and I am pretty certain that the community agrees it is legal. The only thing that brings into question, is the fact that you can use those ghosts for now 3 markers. For example, GV2 glitch, you can have an align for the glitch, the shroom spot, and the angle you want to hit the ramp at.

Doesn't change the fact I think it being legal is the right decision.

I think the community is relatively split, maybe we should add a poll? (not for a final decision, just to see what the %ratio is looking like roughly)

Vega wrote on 12/04/17 at 12:12:03:

What do you mean? From this discussion, it seems to me that most people agree with one of these options: "No mods should be allowed", "Custom music should be allowed, but no other mods should", and "Custom music and textures should be allowed"

Here is a list of positions that I think we should pick from (let me know if I missed one). I’m interested in people saying which ones they would support and which ones they are against:

1.0 - Ban all custom music/textures/other modifications. Keep the current rule.
1.1 - Ban all custom music/textures/other modifications. Make the rule only apply to all times set after 2017-12-04 (or whenever the rule is officially decided).
[This is basically just changing the date of the original rule. The idea is that it would be more official now since the rule will be on the WR site, the rule will be clearer on CTGP, and the rule would be more well-known since we’ve had this discussion.]

2.0 - Ban custom music/textures/other modifications. Allow exceptions only if the updaters think the modification does not give an advantage. Players given an exception will only get 1 strike, their future times with modifications won’t be counted.

3.0 - Allow custom BGM. Disallow disabling BGM, disallow quiet/silent BGM, disallow custom sound effects, and disallow any other modifications.
3.1 - Allow custom BGM (including disabling it). Disallow custom sound effects and other modifications.
3.2 - Allow custom BGM and any other edits to sound, including disabling sounds. Disallow other modifications.

4.0 - The community makes a list of allowed game modifications. This would involve making a decision about which types of sound mods to allow as well as other modifications like textures, speedometer, etc.

5.0 - All game modifications are allowed as long as the ghost of the run syncs when played back with the modifications disabled (and the inputs were set in real time).

My opinion:
I would support 1.0, 1.1, or 2.0.
I’m neutral towards 3.0.
I’m strongly against 3.1, 3.2, 4.0, or 5.0.

For me, the main thing is that I don’t want there to be any way to gain an advantage by hacking the game. So even if there is some subjectivity/exceptions in the rules, I would still prefer that over allowing game modifications.

For CTGP:
If we allow a mod, we should ask Bean to allow it in CTGP as well.
If we continue to ban modifications, I think we should ask Bean to make the message even clearer. E.g. “A time set with modifications won’t count on any leaderboards, and won’t be considered WR”.

As an aside, I personally think multi-ghost shouldn’t be allowed since it’s a mod of the game and is impossible in vanilla MKWii. I think Bean should disable it for Nintendo track TTs (but it should work when viewing ghosts).

@Diamond, I mean that let's wait for others to post their drafts of bills (kind of like Cole just did), plus we are only 2 pages into this thread. We should wait for other known TTers for their input, let's not rush this.

@Cole, thank you very much for those list of options. We could work from that draft and narrow down the options.

InnovΔ wrote on 12/04/17 at 17:35:34:

If you watch a replay with multiple ghosts, then click 'Start Race' in the middle of the replay, you are able to race against a maximum of three of the ghosts you were previously watching

Support 3.0

Against the rest.

I'm for 1.0 and 3.0

Neutral on 2.0 (IF implemented correctly and democratically)

Strongly against everything else.

Jascha wrote on 12/05/17 at 06:17:09:


amen

http://www.forums.mkboards.com/threads/simons-large-3v3-custom-track-tourname...

as I don't really tt that much anymore nor come on here much at all, I usually have custom music on for when I play online. I think it can be enjoyable to have on but I definitely don't feel that I must have it on or something. basically what happened with my bcwii run was a complete accident.

I was playing in the 3v3 FFA tournament shown above, and for those you can have changeable settings like CCs, draggable blue shells, mii-heads on minimap etc. that's how the CT meta is nowadays, so a lot of people turn on custom music while they're at it. I was waiting for the other rooms to finish while I was sitting in call, so I started TTing a bit to stay 'warmed up' if that makes sense, because waiting in FFAs can be a pain. I had attempted bcwii like 5 minutes before a war the day before, not that it was much at all. and after like 20-30 minutes (was something like that) I just set that run, I wasn't sure what to think when entering lap 3 but I thought it'd be damn ironic if this run is a 2:09 now that I was playing with custom music on. I didn't even go for it - I never tt with custom music on usually, unless it's warmup before a war or so, whereas I usually mess around.

essentially, the cause was that I didn't want to go back to home menu and enter the channel again solely to turn off custom music, when I'd be playing for 10 min max or so I thought. I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that, mostly those who enjoy using custom music. Whenever I work on a track though, I always turn off custom music even if I'll be playing online for that period, just because it's a hassle having to go back just to turn off custom music when you think you won't even be playing for long.

at the end of the day it's obviously my fault, but at the same time I just think of it as an accident. not one that bothered me as much as it probably would've earlier, since I've sort of lost interest. I never particularly tried to hide it, as it'd be obvious on the CTGP rankings. It's also kind of flawed though. The run is set on CTGP (free from cheats), but because someone accidently had a rather small modification that honestly has zero impact on the matter at hand, it won't count. I definitely am not the only one who's had this happen, although just not with a WR. Jan's rDKM run is unfortunate as he's japanese and there's a big language barrier. not many of the japanese players have good english, just a few of them impact. BP DK's english is surprisingly good in comparison to other japs.

so yeah, i set the run on ctgp and i set the run in a call (i suppose people can confirm since i had some help me with extracting the ghost). just thought i might as well explain how it happened, whatever ends up happening to it i don't really mind, it's unfortunate but that's about it. i would go with 1.1, but you shouldn't take me into account considering i'm one to have done this. 2 sounds ideal but it's a bit loose, which is why it might not be that good in the end

edit: i know a lot of people don't even have game audio on, but for me personally, it helps me with chain wheelies and it also helps me a lot online, since i can hear items being thrown that i can react to thanks to the sound. it's easy to say "just listen to the music on your phone/laptop/whatever" but that's not how it is for everyone

RosscoXz wrote on 12/05/17 at 12:01:54:


no honestly, that kind of stuff isn't really known to them. it was never announced or described anywhere either. if you play with japs then you can quickly conclude that they aren't all that great at english. it's the same as when rock hop was removed - the japs never really got the point or understood that, it just sort of happened. they have kept playing it for years after. the no-sc category is legit dead within the japanese community, they don't care about it at all. i'm also certain that after jan set his run, he had some other japanese player explain it to him. besides, jan doesn't really tt either, he mains online and even that he doesn't play much, so he won't be as aware. i'm actually surprised jan would ever get a wr, not because i didn't know how good he was but just because i had no clue he was even interested in tt'ing. who knows though, it could've been an accident too.

i see what you mean, but the language barrier is very strong. that's not only it, their way of doing things is just how they go with things. their way of playing online is vastly different to the western communities although they're adapting nowadays. if something was officially announced, with proper translations (i'm sure japs with good english like bpdk would help) then things like jan's rdkm wr could be avoided.