Mario Kart MB - FT Mafia: Town wins by doing absolutely nothing

B.Ray Elite Offline I Love Mark 2.0! 2707 days karting Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2 Reply #825 - 08/26/17 at 07:45:45 I'd like to know what people think about what John said. Do you think this makes those 2 guys a bigger target than Orange/me?
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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2
Reply #826 - 08/26/17 at 08:06:42

Zwiebel wrote on 08/26/17 at 07:43:00:

johnboy81918 wrote on 08/26/17 at 07:04:28:

Zwiebel wrote on 08/26/17 at 06:36:47:

Also I read back to the Brian wagon and I think John and TvK are both most likely Town, especially if Brian flips Maf. I don't think that was a Maf induced wagon, as I explained before.

Sorry if I missed it, can you point out where you said Brian was *not* a maf-induced wagon? I remember multiple times you were against it, calling it a "lure" specifically.

#738

In short, I see no benefit for Maf!TvK or Maf!John to start and get a Brian wagon going when there were 2 wagons going that were both Town where you could've just jumped onto.

I definitely thought that Brian wagon was a lure on D1, but only because I thought that at least one of PAF or Dan would flip Maf.

Derp, I even quoted #738 in #784 (the one where I lay out the Brian wagon details)... Embarrassed

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Fant0m wrote on 12/17/11 at 15:59:31:

You could also do it just because you enjoyed hopping for no reason.

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B.Ray Elite Offline I Love Mark 2.0! 2707 days karting Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2 Reply #827 - 08/26/17 at 08:11:40 I'd like to know what everyone's thoughts are on the theory John has with TVK and TYG. Is this enough to vote for one of those guys over orange/me?
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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2
Reply #828 - 08/26/17 at 08:15:55

B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 07:32:33:

John: I think out of all the people you've brought up the best topics so far on D2 with this and the EOD voting actions. since we actually have some concrete info to go off of. Is you're read of this situation good enough to vote one of the 2 people that are either framing me or saving me out out of the game?

Right now, no...

I feel very strongly that at least one of you or Orange is scum. I think that one of Lewis/TvK is likely scum, but I feel less strongly about that than I do about you/Orange.

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Fant0m wrote on 12/17/11 at 15:59:31:

You could also do it just because you enjoyed hopping for no reason.

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2
Reply #829 - 08/26/17 at 08:30:18

B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 07:45:45:

I'd like to know what people think about what John said. Do you think this makes those 2 guys a bigger target than Orange/me?

I have no reason to think that Tvk/TYG are better wagons now, especially since Orange is my biggest scum lean. I would really like to see as much thoughts from you as possible today.

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B.Ray Elite Offline I Love Mark 2.0! fell 2707 times for marty Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2 Reply #830 - 08/26/17 at 08:39:14 Zoran you asked me for my reads on day 1 on everyone and I didn't reply until last night. Why didn't you pressure me more if this was really important to you?
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B.Ray Elite Offline I Love Mark 2.0! seen 2707 mj vids Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2 Reply #831 - 08/26/17 at 08:47:31 John who are you leaning toward between each of those groups of 2? For me it would be orange and TYG
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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2
Reply #832 - 08/26/17 at 08:56:03

Orange Slices wrote on 08/26/17 at 04:59:09:

johnboy81918 wrote on 08/26/17 at 03:49:26:

Aside from #768, you haven't mentioned Brian before. Now's the time when you need to explain your vote - what else besides #584 stands out to you? Is there anything you can find about him that hasn't been brought to attention yet that you can convince others to join you on the wagon?

B.Ray wrote on 08/24/17 at 06:30:26:

I'm saying that b/c of your super early vote I have a slight town lead on you. Also according to others your town game is strong so I would rather not get rid of you yet because you provide value.

In this post, B.Ray is referring to Leone, and I assume it's his vote from post #50? Also, what do you mean by his town game is strong but you'd rather not get rid of him yet?

B.Ray wrote on 08/24/17 at 06:59:53:

There's no fucking way Day 1 is the most important day. I'd love to hear your reasoning on that?
More importantly I'm locking in:

[vote]PAF[/vote]

This is the only post where you voted on Day 1 (besides #436 where you try to bold your vote). You provided no reasoning behind this vote and now that PAF is a confirmed town it doesn't seem like much of a coincidence that you may have known PAF was town and just wanted to get a vote in, hence why there was no evidence/justification to back it up.

B.Ray wrote on 08/24/17 at 13:26:51:

My record is 6-1 lifetime so decide for yourself how "obvious" I play the game

On this post you're saying your record is 6-1, I'm assuming this means you've rolled town 6 times and mafia once? If so, even with the incredibly low maf record this is still your first mafia game on the MB. This record does not automatically grant you immunity from rolling scum. Moreover, which posts do people say you're playing obvious? Is their reasoning behind your obvious play justified? I hope to hear from you soon.

This is what else stood out to me. Going to bed now

Actually you can confirm with third, Zoran, and Dan (although he's dead) that I was a wolf (scum) 2 times out of my 7 games played and won both of them. This record has nothing to do wth being Mafia or town. I wasn't trying to point out that my record makes it less likely I drew scum but more so if I had drawn scum I wouldn't have been so obvious about trusting Dan. I feel like my defense was misinterpreted.

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2
Reply #833 - 08/26/17 at 08:59:56

B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 08:39:14:

Zoran you asked me for my reads on day 1 on everyone and I didn't reply until last night. Why didn't you pressure me more if this was really important to you?

Nobody should have to pressure you to provide reads, you should be offering them all the time. Incidentally, I'd still like to see a reply to this:
johnboy81918 wrote on 08/26/17 at 07:02:28:

B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 06:05:48:

Brief Reads to date:

third: 60% Maf lean mostly due to how quiet he was during the EOD

no control: 55% Maf lead, due to quiet nature during EOD madness. Also slight wording issues in some of his posts (will elaborate in following post)

sports: this one is tough but i'll say 55% town for now.

Zwiebel: 60 % Maf lead

TVK: 70% town, due to EOD vote switching (can someone tell me how often a mafia player will switch from a leading town voter?

Orange: 75% Maf lead and all of a sudden I'm on his radar? So my posts didn't bother him until many people said him and i are at the bottom of the pecking order. to me this is just noob play all around and he thinks i'm the best shot of him staying in the game. everything about the NO Orange wagon is sketchy to me. everyone that was quiet when Dan brought it up needs to seriously be looked at.

John: 60% MAF

TYG: For same reasons as TVK EOD activity and jumping from me to PAF

Leone: I'm going to trust Dan's read of YS he seemed very sure and we now know Dan is a townie so his intentions are pure

Also, I know it looks way bad for me that TVK and TYG changed their votes last minute from me to town. The reason I trust them as town is because I know I'm town and I don't think mafia would change vote last minute from town to town unless they really thought they could get out a way better player. if
i'm wrong on this someone please say something!

What are your reasons for the bolded reads, since you (sort of) provided reasoning on the others?

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Fant0m wrote on 12/17/11 at 15:59:31:

You could also do it just because you enjoyed hopping for no reason.

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2
Reply #834 - 08/26/17 at 09:10:35

B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 08:39:14:

Zoran you asked me for my reads on day 1 on everyone and I didn't reply until last night. Why didn't you pressure me more if this was really important to you?

I wanted to see your thoughts in case you get lynched so we have something to go on in D2.

As for not putting pressure on you, in my reads 565 you can see that Orange and Dan were my top mafia reads and i had nothing on you. You came in last and i put least effort in going through your posts in detail next to TvK for whom i just didn't have enough time at that point.

Then, 1.5 hours before deadline you posted this :

B.Ray wrote on 08/24/17 at 12:18:43:

Ok not going to be on here until tonight and wanted to clear up why I voted for PAF.

I thought this was it from you so my attention went elsewhere.

I welcome the questioning you are doing and i would also like to see your thoughts on John's 816 and mine 823

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2
Reply #835 - 08/26/17 at 09:19:06

The reads I didn't give reasoning for were just they way these players came across to me on D1. Already they have slightly changed. Maybe I'm easily influenced but John is sparking good conversation. It's mostly just how he reacted to Day 1 nonsense and trying to befriend me when the heat was on me. Just a tactic I would do if I was scum. Especially since my image in this forum is noob it makes sense for at least 1 Mafia to try and befriend me/stick up for me thinking that I will trust them because of it. Unfourtunately for them That's not how I operate in this game.

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B.Ray Elite Offline I Love Mark 2.0! worships 2707 kartgods Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2 Reply #836 - 08/26/17 at 09:25:42 Zoran I'm just curious why a good player such as yourself didn't put much stock into me for a possible lynch? it's clear everyone else did lol. This to me comes across scummy or neutral role since Town should be worried about everyone. This is why I gave you a slight Maf read
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Shock NinjaShock Offline 5698 equations solved North Carolina Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2 Reply #837 - 08/26/17 at 09:27:48 By the way I'm quite busy today and may have a hard time checking up on this game. Apologies in advance.
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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2
Reply #838 - 08/26/17 at 09:28:27

While we are on the subject of John, what do you think about this?

johnboy81918 wrote on 08/24/17 at 07:33:27:

I'm here and should be here at EoD as well.

I know this is dangerous meta-territory...but I just looked back over every game played on this forum in 2016/17 and found a disturbing trend - the two leading wagons on D1 have been t/t every single time. Just food for thought as PAF/Dan have been the primary wagons so far this game - what do the rest of you think, are we going astray again or are we finally on the right track? Like I said, this is definitely a risky thought process (not just figuring out 1 person's meta...but our collective meta as a forum), however now that I've seen it I think it's worth bringing to folks' attention.

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no control Legend Offline 6571 days karting Croatia,Zagreb Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2 Reply #839 - 08/26/17 at 09:32:26 B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 09:25:42: Zoran I'm just curious why a good player such as yourself didn't put much stock into me for a possible lynch? Idk if you missed it, but i just explained that it in 838. If something is not clear, ask.
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B.Ray Elite Offline I Love Mark 2.0! 2707 days karting Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2 Reply #840 - 08/26/17 at 09:35:49 Wow that's crazy Zoran, especially since I know in this case it's the top 3 wagons. The silent people need to be questioned! Specifically Thiradell, Zoran, and maybe TYG (have to go back and see for sure who these people are)
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no control Legend Offline 6571 sex records Croatia,Zagreb Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2 Reply #841 - 08/26/17 at 09:38:43 B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 09:19:06: The reads I didn't give reasoning for were just they way these players came across to me on D1. These players have posted 171 posts all together and this is the best explanation for your reads? Please elaborate on those reads.
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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2
Reply #842 - 08/26/17 at 09:42:06

no control wrote on 08/26/17 at 09:38:43:

B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 09:19:06:

The reads I didn't give reasoning for were just they way these players came across to me on D1.

These players have posted 171 posts all together and this is the best explanation for your reads?

Please elaborate on those reads.

I discussed this in 835.

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2
Reply #843 - 08/26/17 at 09:46:19

B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 09:19:06:

The reads I didn't give reasoning for were just they way these players came across to me on D1. Already they have slightly changed. Maybe I'm easily influenced but John is sparking good conversation. It's mostly just how he reacted to Day 1 nonsense and trying to befriend me when the heat was on me. Just a tactic I would do if I was scum. Especially since my image in this forum is noob it makes sense for at least 1 Mafia to try and befriend me/stick up for me thinking that I will trust them because of it. Unfourtunately for them That's not how I operate in this game.

I tried to befriend you? How so? The friendliest thing I did was answer your questions about playing via forum, and I don't think *anyone* is going to find that alignment indicative on my part. Should I have waited and let you hope that someone else would show up to answer them?

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Fant0m wrote on 12/17/11 at 15:59:31:

You could also do it just because you enjoyed hopping for no reason.

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2
Reply #844 - 08/26/17 at 09:51:08

B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 09:25:42:

Zoran I'm just curious why a good player such as yourself didn't put much stock into me for a possible lynch? it's clear everyone else did lol. This to me comes across scummy or neutral role since Town should be worried about everyone. This is why I gave you a slight Maf read

- Zoran doesn't push you for lynch, this is scummy because town should be pursuing things other than primary wagons
- I pursue something other than primary wagons (you), I am scummy
- ???

Can you reconcile these points somehow? Because right now, you appear to be scumreading me for doing what Zoran didn't (but you are scumreading him for NOT doing it).

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Fant0m wrote on 12/17/11 at 15:59:31:

You could also do it just because you enjoyed hopping for no reason.

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2
Reply #845 - 08/26/17 at 09:53:57

John that section was more for Z actually. Not really a befriending per say but just pointing out possible Mafia Tactics by thinking they can gain the trust of an inexperienced player by supporting them if no one else is. More pointing this out as a possibility and something to keep in the back of your mind. I'd rather hear more opinions of people on the TVK/TYG theory and well as why some people were silent during the EOD1. And Orange do you still suspect me and why did you do a 180 and flip? is it strictly because you are at risk and I'm your best chance of survival? I need answers!!!

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B.Ray Elite Offline I Love Mark 2.0! 2707 days karting Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2 Reply #846 - 08/26/17 at 09:56:51 John in short you've provided enough good discussion D2 to be give a slight Town read in my eyes. Whatever day 1 things I thought are not weighed nearly as heavy as day 2 since we have some concrete things to go off of
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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2
Reply #847 - 08/26/17 at 09:56:53

B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 09:42:06:

no control wrote on 08/26/17 at 09:38:43:

B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 09:19:06:

The reads I didn't give reasoning for were just they way these players came across to me on D1.

These players have posted 171 posts all together and this is the best explanation for your reads?

Please elaborate on those reads.

I discussed this in 835.

Here is your 835:

B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 09:19:06:

The reads I didn't give reasoning for were just they way these players came across to me on D1. Already they have slightly changed. Maybe I'm easily influenced but John is sparking good conversation. It's mostly just how he reacted to Day 1 nonsense and trying to befriend me when the heat was on me. Just a tactic I would do if I was scum. Especially since my image in this forum is noob it makes sense for at least 1 Mafia to try and befriend me/stick up for me thinking that I will trust them because of it. Unfourtunately for them That's not how I operate in this game.

and here is John's 816:

johnboy81918 wrote on 08/26/17 at 07:02:28:

B.Ray wrote on 08/26/17 at 06:05:48:

Brief Reads to date:

third: 60% Maf lean mostly due to how quiet he was during the EOD

no control: 55% Maf lead, due to quiet nature during EOD madness. Also slight wording issues in some of his posts (will elaborate in following post)

sports: this one is tough but i'll say 55% town for now.

Zwiebel: 60 % Maf lead

TVK: 70% town, due to EOD vote switching (can someone tell me how often a mafia player will switch from a leading town voter?

Orange: 75% Maf lead and all of a sudden I'm on his radar? So my posts didn't bother him until many people said him and i are at the bottom of the pecking order. to me this is just noob play all around and he thinks i'm the best shot of him staying in the game. everything about the NO Orange wagon is sketchy to me. everyone that was quiet when Dan brought it up needs to seriously be looked at.

John: 60% MAF

TYG: For same reasons as TVK EOD activity and jumping from me to PAF

Leone: I'm going to trust Dan's read of YS he seemed very sure and we now know Dan is a townie so his intentions are pure

Also, I know it looks way bad for me that TVK and TYG changed their votes last minute from me to town. The reason I trust them as town is because I know I'm town and I don't think mafia would change vote last minute from town to town unless they really thought they could get out a way better player. if
i'm wrong on this someone please say something!

What are your reasons for the bolded reads, since you (sort of) provided reasoning on the others?

So let me be more clear this time. He asked for the reasons on you reads on John, Zwiebel and Sporstguy, now where in 835 did you mention Zwiebel or Sprortsguy?

You say reads on them already changed but Sportsguy hadn't posted since you put the list up. How and why did your reads on Zwibel change?

And again, there are 171 posts from those 3 guys, is #835 all you got to say about them?

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B.Ray Elite Offline I Love Mark 2.0! hit 2707 moles Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2 Reply #848 - 08/26/17 at 09:59:12 Zoran has NOT contributed the same value that you have up to this point. In the games I've played with him IRL he's better than this.
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B.Ray Elite Offline I Love Mark 2.0! fell 2707 times for marty Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 2 Reply #849 - 08/26/17 at 10:03:52 Zoran I was talking about Z in the 2nd half of that post regarding the befriending thing, not John. Sports guy I'm pretty close to neutral about, did Dan like him? Also I don't want this conversation to distract others from posting their opinions on who should kill and where people are at on their pecking order.
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