Mario Kart MB - FT Mafia: Town wins by doing absolutely nothing

TvK

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #300 - 08/23/17 at 16:05:23

B.Ray wrote on 08/23/17 at 15:53:47:

Will post in a couple hours, have only read half of the posts so far and want to take it all in before deciding who to vote for. Who is TVK? I have played a few games with Dan in person and I consider him a good townie. So just from that I would lean towards keeping him but I'll read up and post more later.

Sorry for my last post addressing you, I had not read this one yet. I am TvK by the way. Do you have any specific questions regarding my experience or gameplay?

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Zwiebel

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #301 - 08/23/17 at 16:05:32

johnboy81918 wrote on 08/23/17 at 15:56:58:

Timur #248:
Zwiebel wrote on 08/23/17 at 12:05:37:

If there's a jester in the game, Town AND Maf obviously want to find out and get rid of him. What's the easiest thing to do on D1 as Maf to gain credit? Try to hunt him down, while trying to get all the credit for it, while also blocking the discussion about the possible teammates.

Why do town and maf both want to get rid of the jester? Nobody wants to kill him during the day to give him his win (in any event, town would rather lynch scum, scum would rather lead town to a mislynch of a townie). And if the jester's identity is known who will waste a night kill on him? Any townie with a night kill (if we even have one) would be better off hunting scum. By the same token, scum would rather kill a townie.

I've never played with a jester role before, so I'm curious what I'm missing?

It might be true that no faction actually wants to waste a night action for a jester so early, however both factions want to know the identity of a jestser asap to make sure not to give him the win. It's basically a shared "losing condition" for both parties, so both parties are interested in finding him, however that is the reason it's so easy for maf to create discussion and "seem active", while they're not really scumhunting but just trying to find the jester.

The fact that Dan keeps pressing for the subject however and comes back to it no matter what indicates just that behaviour to me.

It's not about killing the jester, it's about finding his identity. Wouldn't you agree with that point? Even if there's no jester, Maf can only win with that discussion, while Town loses time to scumhunt.

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TvK wrote on 05/27/14 at 03:07:54:

You should all listen to Timur. He's an onion.

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Zwiebel Legend Offline Kmaccy-Fan helped 6670 people Stuttgart Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1 Reply #302 - 08/23/17 at 16:05:57 page glitcher
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DansGame

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #303 - 08/23/17 at 16:10:56

Zwiebel wrote on 08/23/17 at 16:05:32:

johnboy81918 wrote on 08/23/17 at 15:56:58:

Timur #248:
Zwiebel wrote on 08/23/17 at 12:05:37:

If there's a jester in the game, Town AND Maf obviously want to find out and get rid of him. What's the easiest thing to do on D1 as Maf to gain credit? Try to hunt him down, while trying to get all the credit for it, while also blocking the discussion about the possible teammates.

Why do town and maf both want to get rid of the jester? Nobody wants to kill him during the day to give him his win (in any event, town would rather lynch scum, scum would rather lead town to a mislynch of a townie). And if the jester's identity is known who will waste a night kill on him? Any townie with a night kill (if we even have one) would be better off hunting scum. By the same token, scum would rather kill a townie.

I've never played with a jester role before, so I'm curious what I'm missing?

It might be true that no faction actually wants to waste a night action for a jester so early, however both factions want to know the identity of a jestser asap to make sure not to give him the win. It's basically a shared "losing condition" for both parties, so both parties are interested in finding him, however that is the reason it's so easy for maf to create discussion and "seem active", while they're not really scumhunting but just trying to find the jester.

The fact that Dan keeps pressing for the subject however and comes back to it no matter what indicates just that behaviour to me.

It's not about killing the jester, it's about finding his identity. Wouldn't you agree with that point? Even if there's no jester, Maf can only win with that discussion, while Town loses time to scumhunt.

If I was maf why would I be trying to confirm someone as a non-maf and broadcast it to the world? Maf would still have to waste a night kill in that scenario and it's very possible that he could be saved. I would no doubt be talking about such possibilities with mafia buddies in a chat it that were the case instead of broadcasting it out here.

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johnboy81918

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #304 - 08/23/17 at 16:16:44

Zwiebel wrote on 08/23/17 at 16:05:32:

johnboy81918 wrote on 08/23/17 at 15:56:58:

Timur #248:
Zwiebel wrote on 08/23/17 at 12:05:37:

If there's a jester in the game, Town AND Maf obviously want to find out and get rid of him. What's the easiest thing to do on D1 as Maf to gain credit? Try to hunt him down, while trying to get all the credit for it, while also blocking the discussion about the possible teammates.

Why do town and maf both want to get rid of the jester? Nobody wants to kill him during the day to give him his win (in any event, town would rather lynch scum, scum would rather lead town to a mislynch of a townie). And if the jester's identity is known who will waste a night kill on him? Any townie with a night kill (if we even have one) would be better off hunting scum. By the same token, scum would rather kill a townie.

I've never played with a jester role before, so I'm curious what I'm missing?

It might be true that no faction actually wants to waste a night action for a jester so early, however both factions want to know the identity of a jestser asap to make sure not to give him the win. It's basically a shared "losing condition" for both parties, so both parties are interested in finding him, however that is the reason it's so easy for maf to create discussion and "seem active", while they're not really scumhunting but just trying to find the jester.

The fact that Dan keeps pressing for the subject however and comes back to it no matter what indicates just that behaviour to me.

It's not about killing the jester, it's about finding his identity. Wouldn't you agree with that point? Even if there's no jester, Maf can only win with that discussion, while Town loses time to scumhunt.

For sure, I definitely agree that everyone wants to *find* the jester - I just wasn't sure what you meant when you said the part I bolded in your quote.

And yes, I also agree that it derailed far too much of D1. In fact, I even pointed that out starting in #75.

Anyway, thanks for the explanation...having not played in a game with a jester role before, I have no idea how it normally plays out. All this is pure speculation regardless, seeing as we have no idea if there even *is* a jester (which makes the derailing even worse imo - if we had a confirmed jester, that'd be a little different but not much, still seems to waste town's time).

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Fant0m wrote on 12/17/11 at 15:59:31:

You could also do it just because you enjoyed hopping for no reason.

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Zwiebel

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #305 - 08/23/17 at 16:16:51

DansGame wrote on 08/23/17 at 16:10:56:

Zwiebel wrote on 08/23/17 at 16:05:32:

johnboy81918 wrote on 08/23/17 at 15:56:58:

Timur #248:
Zwiebel wrote on 08/23/17 at 12:05:37:

If there's a jester in the game, Town AND Maf obviously want to find out and get rid of him. What's the easiest thing to do on D1 as Maf to gain credit? Try to hunt him down, while trying to get all the credit for it, while also blocking the discussion about the possible teammates.

Why do town and maf both want to get rid of the jester? Nobody wants to kill him during the day to give him his win (in any event, town would rather lynch scum, scum would rather lead town to a mislynch of a townie). And if the jester's identity is known who will waste a night kill on him? Any townie with a night kill (if we even have one) would be better off hunting scum. By the same token, scum would rather kill a townie.

I've never played with a jester role before, so I'm curious what I'm missing?

It might be true that no faction actually wants to waste a night action for a jester so early, however both factions want to know the identity of a jestser asap to make sure not to give him the win. It's basically a shared "losing condition" for both parties, so both parties are interested in finding him, however that is the reason it's so easy for maf to create discussion and "seem active", while they're not really scumhunting but just trying to find the jester.

The fact that Dan keeps pressing for the subject however and comes back to it no matter what indicates just that behaviour to me.

It's not about killing the jester, it's about finding his identity. Wouldn't you agree with that point? Even if there's no jester, Maf can only win with that discussion, while Town loses time to scumhunt.

If I was maf why would I be trying to confirm someone as a non-maf and broadcast it to the world? Maf would still have to waste a night kill in that scenario and it's very possible that he could be saved. I would no doubt be talking about such possibilities with mafia buddies in a chat it that were the case instead of broadcasting it out here.

First of all, why the hell would we waste a save on a potential jester? I mean yeah, he could be angel, but he could not be, so I don't buy that argument. And of couse you want to broadcast it to us all, so that he does not get lynched. I'm not saying the fact that you brought it up makes you maf, it's the fact you kept repeatin it a bazillion times(look up zorans post).

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TvK wrote on 05/27/14 at 03:07:54:

You should all listen to Timur. He's an onion.

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B.Ray Elite Offline I Love Mark 2.0! 2707 days karting Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1 Reply #306 - 08/23/17 at 16:20:06 TVK, I've played 7 games IRL, they were all warewolf format with 1 sear. So this game is going to be a little different than what I'm used to.
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TvK

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #307 - 08/23/17 at 16:21:07

@everyone: What is your read on PAF at this point? What do you think of his posts after Zoran and I voted him? What I see is that he is agreeing with our scumread on him. He also pretty much hasn't made any attempt at scumhunting after the votes. He has a small townread on John based on meta:

P.A.F.625 wrote on 08/23/17 at 08:58:30:

Would like to comment about John. He isn't digging hard like TvK or Zoran, he barely asks anyone questions actually, but he arguments about several subjects so he seems to care about finding scum. He discussed a bit about Leone's character, but only as a reply to Dan and he admits Dan took it too seriously.
If I recall correctly, he played similar in his past games.
He could very well do all of this as scum but I have a slight town lean on him.

Somehow his argument to call John town is that he also wasn't scumhunting hard in a previous game in which he also was town. And of course, gotta love the "he could very well do all of this as scum" disclaimer.

In the next post he addresses the fact that he can't read Zoran or me well on D1. He even stresses that he should focus on other people.

P.A.F.625 wrote on 08/23/17 at 11:08:59:

TvK, your D1 posts ALWAYS look townish to me, that's my damn point.
Same goes for Zoran, the difference is he never played as scum on this MB. There's a chance his behavior would change if he were scum this game, so I do have a slight town lean on him. But he's still skilled, that makes it harder to trust him.
On D2 onwards, as we get more information, hopefully i'll get something out of you two, but now I should focus on everyone else.

This is what he came up with:

P.A.F.625 wrote on 08/23/17 at 11:15:00:

no control wrote on 08/23/17 at 09:30:20:

TyG

Looks to me like he is following Dan's thought process all the way. Had some back and forth with Leone which makes have a slight town lean on him. I think that is too brave for a maf TYG.

Hmm.... I do notice his posts were always about the focus (Dan/Leone discussion). He said he would analyze my posts later on but never did... this isn't so townish. He did put himself on the spotlight but I'm not convinced.... neutral lean.

He calls out TYG for doing something "not so townish" but it's not enough to get him past neutral. In a later post he calls Timur townish for voting Dan and he says Leone can't be scum with Dan. Both these reads are made with Dan as scum in mind.

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TvK

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #308 - 08/23/17 at 16:22:46

P.A.F.625 wrote on 08/23/17 at 15:01:40:

Ya know, I can try to contribute while having TvK/Zoran suspect of me, it's not like I have a choice anyway. You're saying I'm not scum hunting? It's true, I don't ask question as much as those previous two, I can't think of which questions to ask so easily. But that's not the only thing a townie can do ya know?

What exactly can you do except for asking questions at this point? Are you preparing a big analysis post using all the information gathered so far?

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TvK

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #309 - 08/23/17 at 16:24:40

DansGame wrote on 08/23/17 at 15:07:03:

I'm actually at a mario kart tourney in NY right now and haven't read most of the thread today. I do want to point out again that I think Leone is much more likely angel than jester.

I disagree. While jester is a not all too uncommon role in mafia play, I had never played a game in which there was an angel before playing Flo's wacky game (in which all of the roles were new to me).

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TvK

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #310 - 08/23/17 at 16:28:07

B.Ray wrote on 08/23/17 at 16:20:06:

TVK, I've played 7 games IRL, they were all warewolf format with 1 sear. So this game is going to be a little different than what I'm used to.

Okay, good to know. If you have any questions about terminology we use that you might not be familiar with, feel free to ask. And of course you can always message Shock if you have any other questions that you can't ask in this thread. Anyway, I'm looking forward to your thoughts on what has happened so far.

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Zwiebel Legend Offline Kmaccy-Fan 6670 holabolas Stuttgart Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1 Reply #311 - 08/23/17 at 16:31:40 I think Paf just doesn't know what the fuck to do. Could be Maf but I'd rather say he's just clueless Town. Would Maf PAF really admit that he has 0 reads on you? I feel like he would just try to find something to say you seem Townish to him. Unless both of u are Maf and he's afraid to say anything about you.
Back to top	TvK wrote on 05/27/14 at 03:07:54: You should all listen to Timur. He's an onion. IP Logged

B.Ray Elite Offline I Love Mark 2.0! seen 2707 mj vids Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1 Reply #312 - 08/23/17 at 16:33:33 Can someone explain what the jester does? Is he one of the neutral roles described in the rules section?
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johnboy81918 King Offline 6972 holabolas Atlanta, GA Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1 Reply #313 - 08/23/17 at 16:33:52 @Zoran #277: Yeah, I misremembered, sorry lol - I thought Orange voted TvK in that opening post, my bad. Either way, it was still a bad entry into the game, but I guess not quite as terrible without the vote.
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johnboy81918

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #314 - 08/23/17 at 16:35:21

B.Ray wrote on 08/23/17 at 16:33:33:

Can someone explain what the jester does? Is he one of the neutral roles described in the rules section?

We don't know if there is a jester in the game. From what I've read, the jester is a neutral faction that wins if he is *lynched* during the day. If he is killed at night or survives until end of game, he loses.

Someone who has actually played can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding of it.

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Fant0m wrote on 12/17/11 at 15:59:31:

You could also do it just because you enjoyed hopping for no reason.

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Zwiebel Legend Offline Kmaccy-Fan helped 6670 people Stuttgart Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1 Reply #315 - 08/23/17 at 16:36:08 B.Ray wrote on 08/23/17 at 16:33:33: Can someone explain what the jester does? Is he one of the neutral roles described in the rules section? A Jester wins if he gets lynched, Town and Maf lose in that case. Most of the time the game still goes on tho, to find the 2nd place faction.
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johnboy81918

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #316 - 08/23/17 at 16:36:14

johnboy81918 wrote on 08/23/17 at 16:35:21:

B.Ray wrote on 08/23/17 at 16:33:33:

Can someone explain what the jester does? Is he one of the neutral roles described in the rules section?

We don't know if there is a jester in the game. From what I've read, the jester is a neutral faction that wins if he is *lynched* during the day. If he is killed at night or survives until end of game, he loses.

Someone who has actually played can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding of it.

Played *with a jester in the game* (just to clarify)

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Fant0m wrote on 12/17/11 at 15:59:31:

You could also do it just because you enjoyed hopping for no reason.

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Zwiebel Legend Offline Kmaccy-Fan 6670 holabolas Stuttgart Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1 Reply #317 - 08/23/17 at 16:37:42 John, if we had to lynch right now, who would you choose?
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johnboy81918

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #318 - 08/23/17 at 16:37:51

Zwiebel wrote on 08/23/17 at 16:36:08:

B.Ray wrote on 08/23/17 at 16:33:33:

Can someone explain what the jester does? Is he one of the neutral roles described in the rules section?

A Jester wins if he gets lynched, Town and Maf lose in that case. Most of the time the game still goes on tho, to find the 2nd place faction.

Shock wrote on 08/13/17 at 19:06:23:

The game ends only when one of the two main factions achieves their win condition. The town wins when all of the mafia members are dead, and the mafia wins when all town-aligned players are killed. Neutral factions or players with no alignment could potentially be able to achieve their win condition before the end of the game. If non-aligned players fail to reach their win condition before the end of the game, they lose.

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Fant0m wrote on 12/17/11 at 15:59:31:

You could also do it just because you enjoyed hopping for no reason.

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P.A.F.625

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #319 - 08/23/17 at 16:40:36

Bleh i was just going to sleep, sorry TvK I can't write a deep response now.
You also think I'm not trying enough? I'll try harder in 12 hours, but honestly I don't think I can do much more. Undecided

@Dan (reply #295): you did not answer my question, all you did was give another argument on why Leone is angel/jester. lol

See ya later.

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ALAKTORN wrote on 08/18/16 at 15:07:13:

I don’t make mistakes. Others do and I pick up on them.

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johnboy81918 King Offline 6972 sex records Atlanta, GA Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1 Reply #320 - 08/23/17 at 16:42:36 Zwiebel wrote on 08/23/17 at 16:37:42: John, if we had to lynch right now, who would you choose? Honestly, my views haven't changed significantly from my list of reads (#137) - Dan is the most suspicious of the active players, so I'd have to answer your question with him.
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B.Ray Elite Offline I Love Mark 2.0! seen 2707 mj vids Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1 Reply #321 - 08/23/17 at 16:45:20 Ty and sorry I didn't Pm that question to you Shock. Realized it after I posted.
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Shock NinjaShock Offline 5698 equations solved North Carolina Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1 Reply #322 - 08/23/17 at 16:53:15 It is quite helpful to me, the host, when the players take the time to read the rules carefully before posting and playing.
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Orange Slices

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Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1
Reply #323 - 08/23/17 at 17:03:52

no control wrote on 08/23/17 at 09:30:20:

Orange

His 1st post really is the only one which had some value. He backed of immidiately after 1 post from TvK. Slight maf lean, would like to see some content from you Orange. Could you make a list with your opinion on everyone?

I haven't been able to get reads on everybody but this is what I've got so far:

TvK - My strongest Town lean. Responds quickly and is very analytical. Questions people without being aggressive or intrusive. Knows people inside and out

PAF - Moderate town lean. It's difficult to tell and very few of his posts are "scummy", so it's unlikely he'd be maf.

No Control - Neutral.

MKDS - Town Jester. MKDS has a tendency to use smileys a lot in his posts.

I'll post my maf reads later today. I'm at school right now and don't have the time to search through yet.

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Shock NinjaShock Offline 5698 equations solved North Carolina Gender:	Re: Forum-themed Mafia: Day 1 Reply #324 - 08/23/17 at 17:04:05 Day 1 ends in 20 hours and 56 minutes, by the way.
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