I think it's very interesting that you brought up the lack of communication between PAF and Diamond, TYG. If they are talking a lot in their wolf chat together, you subconsciously assume that you are also interacting with eachother in a non-suspicious way in the thread. Heck, look at myself when I was mafia together with Yoshistar, a person I usually talk a lot to in mafia games. That game Dan made a solid case on us being buddies (which was true) just on the lack of interaction between us.

Actually I went back to look at our lost son's first day, and I must say, there are some inconsistencies in his play. His first post almost solely focused on making IsaaK (now confirmed town) look bad. In fact, the entire IsaaK wagon was started by Zwiebel. Dan had voted IsaaK prior to Zwiebel, but he had already changed his vote before we got here. These are his other conclusions:

Zwiebel wrote on 04/19/17 at 10:45:29:


Dan seems town, Diamond seems noob town and TYG seems town. He did briefly mention me as a potential wolf partner for IsaaK, but I guess he didn't have a read on me. ALAK is neutral. But then the most inteeresting part: he promises to look at PAF later.

Zwiebel wrote on 04/19/17 at 11:50:37:


But instead of doing so, he starts a discussion with ALAK whether we should go through with his schizo-idea or not. He does not talk about PAF or anyone else again and then disappears.

He returns later with this post:

Zwiebel wrote on 04/19/17 at 14:15:03:


Now Dan is most likely angel and we also get our first mention of PAF since he promised to look more into it, but then again PAF's actions are not alignment indicative.

Zwiebel wrote on 04/19/17 at 14:47:55:


And here we suddenly have PAF as his second lynch target, without any explanation whatsoever. You could say that this is a pretty good w/w strategy at this point. Zwiebel does not point out anything that makes him think PAF is wolf, but he still keeps him as his 2nd target. A very handy move, considering that he doesn't even have to risk placing a vote on him and there was no consensus at all whether we would go through with this plan.

Conclusion: Zwiebel could be PAF's partner.

Diamond wrote on 04/21/17 at 04:10:32:


You're not really answering my questions here. So is inactivity your main reason to think Zwiebel is a wolf? If not, what are your thoughts on the latest post I made? You also didn't answer my question on what your current read on Dan is and what makes you think he town/wolf? And can you quote me on where I said I was afraid of Zwiebel? Then I can explain what I meant when I said that.

Also, what happened to your scumread of PAF now that all of a sudden he's facing some real heat. PAF already has 1 vote from the crow (who is 100% town, mind you), 1 vote from me and he's also TYG's top scumread, which would make three. This seems like a real good time to start a wagon on someone else (Zwiebel) with a less than solid reason (inactivity) behind it. At least, that's what I would expect you to do when your wolfbuddy is probably going to get lynched today.

You said you were "quite scared" (forgive me for saying "afraid") of Zwiebel here:
TvK wrote on 04/20/17 at 18:45:28:

As for my opinion on Dan, I'm thinking he's looking a bit more townish now than you or Zwiebel. I'll explain later, don't have time now.

P.A.F.625 wrote on 04/21/17 at 04:26:41:


Well, I would have expected a vote from you when the pressure was on. I'll be the first to admit that I probably did not pay enough attention to Zwiebel on D1, but I think it was pretty for anyone to keep an eye on everyone the last couple of pages of D1 (thanks, ALAK). By process of elimination, your buddy has to be either Diamond or Zwiebel, so now that's my main priority.

I think it's also funny how you are called out by TYG for a lack interaction with Diamond during the first day. Not only is that one of the reasons that you're calling me scum (lack of attention for Zwiebel), you also acknowledge that and you still go out of your way to not address Diamond, but instead you turn your eye and your vote towards me. How am I supposed to believe that there is no kind of connection between the pair of you?

Diamond wrote on 04/21/17 at 04:36:30:


I have 2 reasons to be afraid:

1. Inactives tend to slip away from my attention. I am a person that makes reads off of posts and I dig through the pages to find any kind of inconsistency in someone's words. If a person does not post, I will have a lot less material to work with.

2. I know from experience that Zwiebel is one of the better mafia players on this forum. I'm a lot better at reading less experienced players than I am reading top players. If one of these top players then also has a low post count, I will have a lot of trouble figuring out his alignment.

Oh and might as well give my read on Diamond, guess I should've made it in the other post, but whatever.
Voting without explaining is a noob town mistake, not a noob maf mistake. I've seen several people do this in older games. There's really no reason to scum read him because of that.
Dan already argued that his bullshit argument related to odds makes him less likely to be scum, I expect noob maf to be somewhat shy, not just throw around arguments like they feel like it. Noob town tend to suspect who's on the spotlight (in this case, Dan) as well.
Everything else he did in the day also felt like noob town. Mentioning you're noob can be seen as natural.
I didn't say much bc I felt like he was irrelevant and there were more important things in play. Even today, I really don't want to focus on defending this guy.

P.A.F.625 wrote on 04/21/17 at 04:46:56:


Forgot to mention. If I were scum with him I'd be more careful with what he would do. You think I'd want him vote for the same person as me? Not even sure if I would let him do something as noobish as voting without explanation.

Dan, please tell me that your scum read on TvK wasn't bluff. Now's a good time to reveal your reasons. I feel like only both of us can lead town in the right direction.

Also another thing about Diamond. He has mentioned that he thought PAF was scum during the first day. What happened to that read today? We even see that PAF has an extra vote on him at the start of the day, but all of a sudden, Diamond decides that the inactive Zwiebel has a lot more chance to flip scum. If I had to follow Occam's razor, I would say that this points a lot towards a connection between PAF and Diamond.

P.A.F.625 wrote on 04/21/17 at 05:06:43:


Did I suddenly become your top scumread again? And what is your current read on TYG?

Fuck this day is already over halfway gone and the only ones who are posting are the two of us. We really need everyone to come in and post.

Diamond, can you specifically say who you have as town and who you have as wolves right now? And which one between me and PAF do you think is most likely to be a wolf? How did your read on PAF evolve throughout the days? What do you think of Dan and TYG?

LewisRichards wrote on 04/21/17 at 05:42:51:


TYG, what do you think of Diamond dropping his apparent PAF scumread and his hestitation to put a vote down on anyone today?