Did there end up being an answer about these techniques?
Just read thru and I find it very suprising you don't have a completely open category where anything goes at all.
I understand the crazy effort to achieve these times but if someone is willing to put in the effort they should get the reward of having their time ranked, even if most people never even try (or like) the technique.

lol so all those discussions + polls made no sense since we just had to wait for CDM to discuss altogether about a topic that's been brought up half a year ago. What a joke.

Antistar wrote on 07/18/17 at 02:16:28:


The polls and early discussions were correct to have as it has allowed us to think about the subject in advance and take considerable time on it. I asked Scoub and any others to test the strats further to make sure there were no other variations that we discover later after rushing to make a decision and have to change things yet again in another discussion. So nothing has gone to waste with the discussions before. There was no further feedback since, and then I know we parked the subject for a little while;  I don't want it left for another year / two / more either.

It was never a plan to wait for CDM, but I just thought the other day, conveniently since we are all gona be together in person (and it is only a 4 weeks away) it wouldnt be a bad idea at all to have a final agreement on what we want while there. Rather than chasing many players up again to read the forum which might take a week or two if people are busy. I dont mind either way, but just thought it would be a good suggestion. Then I can get implementations done afterwards for whatever is required.

Antistar wrote on 07/18/17 at 03:47:17:



Yes we dont have to talk at CDM at all, yes we can decide it all here. But think of it as a last check, we can say when at CDM the results were mostly in this direction or that direction for the strats. Are we still happy with this overall or does anyone have anything else to suggest? If everyone is still in line with their decisions from earlier in the year then fine.

I am 110% happy to agree to do the discussion here, it was just a suggestion about having a last chat at CDM. Suggestion means we dont have to do it if it is not necessary, so dont worry!!   . But if players want to make any last statements here, it might take a week or two for them to get back, then by the time implementations are done by Alex it could take another week or two after that at least anyway which would bring us to CDM time.

Based on the polls done it looks like:

CI1 wall-jump and NBT = Fine to move to Non-Shortcut main ranking

Pipe and Wall boosts = Fine to make Non-Shortcut main ranking

Extended wall ride boost = Make this is shortcut / glitch / trick


The extended wall ride boost was the one that we were least sure of, i think some players wanted all strats allowed, or the pipe /wall strats but not that extended wall boost one. If no one wants to discuss that any further we can decide upon the above?

KVD wrote on 07/18/17 at 06:28:06:



Fair enough, its not meant to change any outcome, just that we could all chat together. Then again when we are at CDM we probably want to make the most of enjoying every moment that week, as it is rare that we have everyone together. We probably dont want to spend long time discussing stuff that we can do elsewhere. So ok, lets just sort things out here then.

Focusing on the extended wall ride boost.. Can it be done anywhere else where it may save time or was it exclusively useful only on CI1? Again seeking Scoub's expertise here

The extended wallboost decreases the speedloss when traveling really long portions of off-road, but you still lose speed. Therefore it only wins time on CI1 I would say, as it has a really long portion of off-roading. It would win time on MC2 as well, if we did not already have the much better long boost to cover that section. I can't envision it winning time on MC4.

That would still make it 17 vs 10 but indeed a little less one sided.

So your 56"61 was with extended wallboost ending?   You might crush the Championship Record this year if you can pull it off consistently. I found that extremely hard to do (in GP), one miss-timed bounce or gas press and you're toast.  

I know, but to realistically attempt it in last lap for a CDM 1-try you need to be able to make it work somewhat consistently. I can't get that done at all is what I mean.  

Dan H wrote on 07/18/17 at 21:24:17:


Do you mean the wall riding or just the wall jump only?

If it was the latter, breaking blocks was always banned on GVs as it was changing the shape of the inner part of the course. VL blocks being an exception as they are in a part of the track where they could be hit by accident on driving anyway. The CI1 wall jump just gets you over a wall without touching anything apart from the bump that is placed there so that is different matter. That said you can do the trick times on GVs breaking blocks but the lap skip tricks are faster anyway.

KVD is mostly correct. As i mentioned in the other topic, I don't see how using a natural part of the track to hop over an intended obstacle (CI1) is much different from doing away with blocks that the game allows to be broken, also a natural aspect of the track, and then hopping over what used to be an intended obstacle (GVs). I realize I'm kinda just playing Devil's Advocate here, but the reasoning is valid nonetheless.

The counter argument, of which I am aware, is that the GV strats can't be used for 5lap attempts, similar to the IB on MC2. The CI1 strat, however, can optimize 5lap and flap attempts.

Another argument opposing allowing the CI1 hop is just to look at the game's immediate successor. MK64 has separate SC charts so why would SMK be different? I see CI1's wall hop as analogous to Wario Stadium's wall hop. Both use a natural part of the track to cut intended obstacles, but MK64 has resolved the issue by calling it SC even though you really don't have to glitch the game as you would on other tracks (TT, DKJP, RRa). The major difference between the two games is that MK64 has an abundance of SCs but SMK doesn't.

I acknowledge that the guys that have been part of this community since the dawn of time will be the main drivers of this discussion/decision, and that's the way it should be. But I hope the reasoning of this schmuck that's been here 11 years gets its due diligence.

KVD wrote on 07/20/17 at 01:00:52:


Same for extended wall boost tho  

ScouB wrote on 07/20/17 at 01:18:56:



And feather jumps on BC2 Lava and RR darkness which are not in the Open section for GP site, but we do them at CDM. We allow more of the shortcuts there that are not lap skip tricks but still SCs. So maybe CDM should be kept a bit separate in that sense.