Aron Langerak wrote on 01/25/17 at 13:55:42:


Well to be fair it's only BP flap and PB flap  

Aron Langerak wrote on 01/26/17 at 08:06:00:


SL is just normal A-tech. In fact, "TAS strat" and even going sideways is just a-tech. It's a strategy, not a "new boosting technique". Sure, it cost you spots in BP flap because people learned it. And I'm the only one using it even on PB flap. But is -0.3 AF really a BIG disadvantage?

Besides that, comparing people finding and using new strategies after someone has retired to unbanning something is different.

Haha xD I was just trying to make a comparisation but as usual it's not taken too serious  
But would be nice to see Mike joining the SMK-side! The good side of MK.. Tho I'm pretty sure he is too busy with MKDD and of course no offense for that! Now let's get back on topic  

KVD wrote on 01/26/17 at 06:04:35:


ikr, Karel ^^ what we are doing in the present is like that our strategies created an unsolvable paradox...

Motto of the day: being stuck from the past for evolving to the future

I think I've come up with a fair compromise: Allow all these strats to be used, just ban the French players from using them.

Firewaster wrote on 01/26/17 at 11:03:08:


The Donald agreed

Alicia Kart wrote on 01/26/17 at 05:49:54:


The only thing I don't get it Alicia is where is the poll saying that was forbidden?
This is what the official result made 10 years ago is telling us:
Edited:


http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1170449735

Already allowed 10 years ago^

Alicia Kart wrote on 01/26/17 at 05:49:54:


I guess that's a matter of point of view, I myself see no differences between "a strat being unknown for 10 years, then discovered, and allowed" and "a strat known for 10 years but forbidden, and then allowed" (*) as I look only at the consequences :

(*) : (I mean only if it make sense to allow the strat, of course Lakitu glitches cannot fall in this category for instance. But pipeboosts (MC1/2/3) wallhits (MC4) are really similar to any other techniques we came up with (boosts, FB, slides, A-slides, releasing-gas etc...)  I can't see why the one mentionned here above would be allowed and not those ones, wallhits have been used naturally already in GP for instance + we don't dirty a lot more the natural path of the track than with classic boosts)

- People will have pushed the "current" strat World Records very far
- Once the "new" strat is allowed (unknown before or not) World Records are getting beaten (easily or not)
- Some of the Karters that have pushed their PRs with previous strat are either already Retired or bored to learn a new strat.
- But Activity remains on the website with people eager to push the new strat World Records to its limits, and newcomer learning all the new strats.
And the circle goes on as a new strat is being discovered a few years later.

The consequences are the same for both cases.
It's more complicated when you go backwards on a strat though (disallow a strat previously allowed), as you have to know exactly who used that strat, and replace their times with old strats (like for IB)
But we did it for MC2 IB, so what prevents us to allow these ones now ?

As I mentionned before if we didn't discover (and authorized) new (legit) strats every year we probably would all be retired by the time being.
If I continue playing SMK, it's mainly because I'm excited about learning something new every time !

I understand and agree that rules are made to be followed, but rules are also made to be changed if they are stupid. (I mean, at least considered stupid by the majority)
I mean don't rules change all the time for any domain (politics and laws, sports, school, CDM  , etc.)
We don't have to be so conservative if it makes sense after several years that we shouldn't have disallowed some rules (or allowed some) in the first place (IB anyone ?) (and as mentionned Krysster I don't even understand why it's been banned considering the poll's results from that time, but anyway...)

ScouB wrote on 01/26/17 at 12:06:26:

Apart from this point I tend to agree with you.

I don't think it's relevant to talk about something that should never been allowed that finally got removed in the end for good reasons in a thread where we focus on real strats that should have been allowed for ages. I mean, we know the pipehit thing for a decade at least, what were the reasons for disallowing it? Is it even written somewhere that those strats are SC?

The main problem for me is not about allowing them because I do think they should have always been. No, I just don't get why this had not been discussed years ago clearly, or even when Chris performed his MC3 forbidden PR.

I just don't like the fact we suddenly decide to tell "yes, you can do whatever you want with pipes and walls" in fucking 2017, when a huge part of the top players who have set the most maxed world records in the world will not find the time or motivation to push their PRs again, whereas they'd have done it at the peak at their careers if they had been told they could. I know I'm speaking for myself but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. Only 4 of the cumulated PAL/NTSC top 10 players in the world are still playing and they will get a huge advantage to destroy some charts. I find this unfair and not logical at all, sorry.

Absolutely not Dan.

Actually it does, vanilla lake blocks are meant as obstacles, ghost valley ones are track lining.

Antistar wrote on 01/27/17 at 02:27:46:


I understand your frustration.
But what I was pointing out is that the consequences if the strat had remained unknown for 10 years and discovered just now would be the same. You would have pushed the previous strat wrs to its limits, then get retired and not feel like playing again with the new strats. So please stop pretending it is a different issue in terms of consequences...
What I'd find even more unfair, for potential (now considered as) legit strats would be to prevent current active players to extend their smk lifetime just so that retired players are not frustrated... if you are retired that's not our problem, don't spoil our enjoyment/lifetime of SMK just because you are retired and
Find unfair not to have been able to try the strat earlier, keep in mind I also pushed my PRs for 10 years with the current strat, I did not break the rules, but I'm not retired yet and don't want to be because some legits rules remain forbidden due to retired players frustration

Sorry if I'm getting rude, but I find this so ridiculous...

Also i realize I'm in the ci1 topic but I'm more talking about the Pipeboosts/Wallhits strats which for me are no different to any other nbt strat.
Ci1 is another debate (but should probably be authorized too imo, just I would understand people saying we do not follow the natural path of the track by jumping over a wall) that's why I did not vote yet.

It matters for us where they are located, though it might not necessarily matter from the developer's point of view.
Perhaps we should put a poll up if you're not happy with that answer, I'm pretty sure that one would get a lot more NO than YES (if the question is to allow it or not).

Also, once again I find myself agreeing with ScouB, regarding the consequences viewpoint.