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Question: Which 12 player setup?
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Option 1  
  2 (18.1%)
Option 2  
  9 (81.8%)




Total votes: 11
« Created by: Shock on: 01/06/17 at 07:26:49 »

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Mafia: Game Over - Town Victory! (Read 7416 times)
ALAKTORN
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #700 - 01/10/17 at 18:19:55  
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:15:03:
If I am maf without a vig shot there's no harm at all in letting me live until tonight. None, zero, zilch.

If I am maf with a vig shot then townvig should be speaking up by now. They haven't. So mafvig used their kill night one.

Therefore if I am maf I don't have a vig shot. If I am town I do. It's as simple as that. Ergo, there's no harm in letting me live.

That kinda makes sense.

I wonder if we should have our Vig shoot N2? We get the info of 2 lynches today, meaning in the night we could make a good guess at who is Mafia and shoot them. I think we should discuss this?
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #701 - 01/10/17 at 18:20:52  
Everyone needs to tune 42 out for a little while, honestly.  Go back over D2 and D1 before Web's claims and evaluate everything that happened.  Think about the following possibilities (in no particular order):

1. Vinnie is town, Web is town, no one got controlled and 42 is mafia.
2. Vinnie is mafia, Web is mafia, and they're lying through their teeth.
3. Vinnie is town, Web is mafia, Vinnie's scan was controlled onto a town member so his scan on Web is wrong, 42 is town.  (I could be town or mafia in this scenario.  Web could be making up that he used a night action, or he could have used the vig shot, or I could be lying about my Zwiebel scan claim)
4. Vinnie is town, Web is town, Web got controlled and 42 is town - I would be mafia lying in this case.

And see what seems to make the most sense, as well as who is the most likely person to be lynched as a mafia member today.  If I forgot any possibilities, and I very well may have, post them in the thread and I'll update the list (in a new post of course).
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #702 - 01/10/17 at 18:21:11  
Right now
7:3
After I die:
6:3
If J-Cop is maf
6:2
If 42 is controlled:
4:2
If 42 is mislynched:
5:3
Then:
4:3

This makes sense to me.
[vote]J-Cop[/vote] (this will be the third vote on J-Cop)
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #703 - 01/10/17 at 18:21:16  
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:15:03:
If I am maf without a vig shot there's no harm at all in letting me live until tonight. None, zero, zilch.

If I am maf with a vig shot then townvig should be speaking up by now. They haven't. So mafvig used their kill night one.

Therefore if I am maf I don't have a vig shot. If I am town I do. It's as simple as that. Ergo, there's no harm in letting me live.


There is a lot of harm to let you live if you're a mafia without a vig shot. That would mean we would have to take a stab in the dark (as opposed to lynching you, 99% confirmed maf in my mind) and we might waste another mislynch. Added to that, it allows for maf to have an extra night action as well. There are only advantages to lynching you as quickly as possible.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #704 - 01/10/17 at 18:21:50  
Web wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:17:46:
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:15:03:
Web wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:11:56:
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:08:49:
DansGame wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:07:03:
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:05:56:
DansGame wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:04:23:
42, I'm not discussing the idea because it's probably outrageous.  I think it's important to look back over what happened on D2 and D1, before Web's claim.


In what scenario am I maf with an unused vigilante shot? The only way is if there's a hidden town who shot last night. And if that was true they should be claiming 100%.

Since I am not maf with a vig shot remaining, what's the harm in letting me live until tonight?


If you're the best lynch, you're the best lynch.  It's definitely still on the table.


That doesn't answer my question. I'm claiming to have an unused vig shot. If I am mafia, there is no way I have an unused vig shot, since town would be claiming to have shot one of Zwiebel/Racer.

Therefore there is no harm in letting me live until tonight to use my vig kill.

Please give me one possible scenario where I am mafia with a vig shot, which is the only way that lynching me today is the right play.


This logic doesn't make sense to me at all. You're stating with 100% certainty that you have a vig shot. We don't know if you have a vig shot or not, it's not that difficult to fake that claim. You can bluff your way through that claim for days with the mafia's abilities.


If I am maf without a vig shot there's no harm at all in letting me live until tonight. None, zero, zilch.

If I am maf with a vig shot then townvig should be speaking up by now. They haven't. So mafvig used their kill night one.

Therefore if I am maf I don't have a vig shot. If I am town I do. It's as simple as that. Ergo, there's no harm in letting me live.

if you're mafia, there's an inherent harm in letting you live. If you don't have a vig shot, you have two other powers you can use on the town with your other mafia pal and new information from today. There's harm there.

You're completely disregarding the risk that is presented to the town if we let a nearly confirmed mafia slip away. It's almost "too easy" of a solution for you to just be saved today, in fact there's only one possible scenario you can think of "42 as maf with a vig shot" that means you should live.


And yet I can clear myself if I live until the night. Why don't you want me to clear myself? It will only result in negatives for the maf team. If I'm mafia with two random powers it's not like they will do me too much good. What's the best I can do? If I'm mafia I have no vig shot. Heal won't do much, sure I can heal my partner so what? Redirect won't be too damaging unless I use it on a vig. Roleblock/Scan sure, but if I had either of those and was mafia I would have likely already used one. But what if I'm not mafia? I know I'm not mafia, I can prove it or soak up a roleblock from them. Win/win. You're just 100% disregarding the fact that I'm town.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #705 - 01/10/17 at 18:22:36  
Vinnie927 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:21:11:
Right now
7:3
After I die:
6:3
If J-Cop is maf
6:2
If 42 is controlled:
4:2
If 42 is mislynched:
5:3
Then:
4:3

This makes since to me.
[vote]J-Cop[/vote] (this will be the third vote on J-Cop)


Wowowow, how do you suddenly conclude that 42 has to be town? Who in the chain of scans has to be mafia then? Are you lying? Is Web lying? Is Dan lying?
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #706 - 01/10/17 at 18:22:40  
TvK wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:21:16:
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:15:03:
If I am maf without a vig shot there's no harm at all in letting me live until tonight. None, zero, zilch.

If I am maf with a vig shot then townvig should be speaking up by now. They haven't. So mafvig used their kill night one.

Therefore if I am maf I don't have a vig shot. If I am town I do. It's as simple as that. Ergo, there's no harm in letting me live.


There is a lot of harm to let you live if you're a mafia without a vig shot. That would mean we would have to take a stab in the dark (as opposed to lynching you, 99% confirmed maf in my mind) and we might waste another mislynch. Added to that, it allows for maf to have an extra night action as well. There are only advantages to lynching you as quickly as possible.


Say you lynch me and I'm town. What will you do next? I'm asking this because I really think everyone is putting all their eggs into the "42 is mafia" basket and when I flip town everyone's just going to be confused.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #707 - 01/10/17 at 18:22:59  
DON'T LISTEN TO A WORD OF ANYTHING 42 SAYS RIGHT NOW. WE ARE THINKING ABOUT THE WRONG THINGS.  DECIDE WHO IS THE BEST LYNCH FOR TODAY.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #708 - 01/10/17 at 18:24:20  
As much as I also think J-Cop might be mafia, I am confident that we HAVE to lynch anyone in the chain of scans on the table now. If we don't we're only postponing that matter. Even if we make a mistake, it will give us tons of information about the other people that already have claimed today. I really believe we should leave J-Cop for a later day. And this is coming from someone that wanted to lynch J-Cop at the start of the day.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #709 - 01/10/17 at 18:24:57  
TvK wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:22:36:
Vinnie927 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:21:11:
Right now
7:3
After I die:
6:3
If J-Cop is maf
6:2
If 42 is controlled:
4:2
If 42 is mislynched:
5:3
Then:
4:3

This makes since to me.
[vote]J-Cop[/vote] (this will be the third vote on J-Cop)


Wowowow, how do you suddenly conclude that 42 has to be town? Who in the chain of scans has to be mafia then? Are you lying? Is Web lying? Is Dan lying?


Are you not willing to take the risk? I can clear myself. I'm telling you I can clear myself. I just don't see a world where you guys win if I'm lynched. Yeah I'm addressing you as if you're town and not mafia.

If I'm lynched then you will have 4 dead townies (assuming Vinnie's town), and if maf gets another kill it will be Web vs Dan where one wrong vote ends the game. Even if you vote right there's still two unfound mafia and it's still lynch or lose.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #710 - 01/10/17 at 18:25:16  
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:13:42:
ALAKTORN wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:10:55:
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:06:44:
Web wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:04:02:
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 17:58:49:
So you agree that, if I am mafia, I do not actually HAVE a vig shot, right? If that's the case what's the harm in letting me live to N2? If I am mafia I just can't kill anyway and if I am town I either clear myself or use up a mafblock.

I also don't get your "I use up a mafblock" argument. Isn't the mafia's goal to use their actions to confuse the town? How is it a waste for them (assuming in this scenario you're town) to use one of their actions on you? They want the town to be as confused as possible, and if you show up tomorrow saying "well, looks like my vig shot was blocked, oh well" then that doesn't get us any closer to pinning down your affiliation.


If they do not block me my vigkill goes through and it clears me of making the shot. They have to use up one of their powers to prevent this.

I honestly don’t understand how letting you use a Shot is a good idea when Mafia could easily control it onto Town. Sure it might clear you but… I don’t know, sounds stupid? And what happens if you’re Mafia and a Townie shoots somebody, and you claim their shot? You gonna make us mislynch the other guy?

This is a mess.


Townies other than me should not be shooting tonight at all. I have to as it's the only action to clear my name. If they redirect me to town that still proves a vig kill HAPPENED. Besides, under the assumption Vinnie is town there is only one other town vig besides me. He can just not shoot. It still clears me.

Clearing me, assuming Vinnie is town, means one of Web/Dan is mafia. Scum likely won't want this 50/50 to happen.


WHAT THE FUCK?????

I'm gonna use my night shot.  No one else should.  Oh well if mafia controls me onto a town.

WHAT KIND OF FUCKING LOGIC IS THIS?????
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #711 - 01/10/17 at 18:25:18  
TvK wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:22:36:
Vinnie927 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:21:11:
Right now
7:3
After I die:
6:3
If J-Cop is maf
6:2
If 42 is controlled:
4:2
If 42 is mislynched:
5:3
Then:
4:3

This makes since to me.
[vote]J-Cop[/vote] (this will be the third vote on J-Cop)


Wowowow, how do you suddenly conclude that 42 has to be town? Who in the chain of scans has to be mafia then? Are you lying? Is Web lying? Is Dan lying?

I'm more confident in voting J-Cop than 42. 42 is making a bold claim, and 4:2 is the very worst that can happen if he lied. If people use their powers wisely, I believe that we can save 42 and still have a winning shot.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #712 - 01/10/17 at 18:25:41  
TvK wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:24:20:
As much as I also think J-Cop might be mafia, I am confident that we HAVE to lynch anyone in the chain of scans on the table now. If we don't we're only postponing that matter. Even if we make a mistake, it will give us tons of information about the other people that already have claimed today. I really believe we should leave J-Cop for a later day. And this is coming from someone that wanted to lynch J-Cop at the start of the day.


If there is a mistake made today the game's just about over. How is that hard to comprehend?
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #713 - 01/10/17 at 18:25:43  
DansGame wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:22:59:
DON'T LISTEN TO A WORD OF ANYTHING 42 SAYS RIGHT NOW. WE ARE THINKING ABOUT THE WRONG THINGS.  DECIDE WHO IS THE BEST LYNCH FOR TODAY.

I agree that this is the right course of action. I hope you'll understand that as I have a guilty report on 42 with a .0001% chance of it being moved that there is a 0% chance I am moving my vote.

I support J-Cop being lynched at some point in the game as well, so if that happens to be today I'll grudgingly accept it.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #714 - 01/10/17 at 18:26:19  
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:22:40:
TvK wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:21:16:
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:15:03:
If I am maf without a vig shot there's no harm at all in letting me live until tonight. None, zero, zilch.

If I am maf with a vig shot then townvig should be speaking up by now. They haven't. So mafvig used their kill night one.

Therefore if I am maf I don't have a vig shot. If I am town I do. It's as simple as that. Ergo, there's no harm in letting me live.


There is a lot of harm to let you live if you're a mafia without a vig shot. That would mean we would have to take a stab in the dark (as opposed to lynching you, 99% confirmed maf in my mind) and we might waste another mislynch. Added to that, it allows for maf to have an extra night action as well. There are only advantages to lynching you as quickly as possible.


Say you lynch me and I'm town. What will you do next? I'm asking this because I really think everyone is putting all their eggs into the "42 is mafia" basket and when I flip town everyone's just going to be confused.


Thing is that I'm trying for people to put their eggs into the 42 is mafia basket. Too many are switching over to another idea. If you happen to flip town, then combined with Vinnie's flip, we'll have a lot of information on Web and Dan.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #715 - 01/10/17 at 18:28:32  
TvK wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:26:19:
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:22:40:
TvK wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:21:16:
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:15:03:
If I am maf without a vig shot there's no harm at all in letting me live until tonight. None, zero, zilch.

If I am maf with a vig shot then townvig should be speaking up by now. They haven't. So mafvig used their kill night one.

Therefore if I am maf I don't have a vig shot. If I am town I do. It's as simple as that. Ergo, there's no harm in letting me live.


There is a lot of harm to let you live if you're a mafia without a vig shot. That would mean we would have to take a stab in the dark (as opposed to lynching you, 99% confirmed maf in my mind) and we might waste another mislynch. Added to that, it allows for maf to have an extra night action as well. There are only advantages to lynching you as quickly as possible.


Say you lynch me and I'm town. What will you do next? I'm asking this because I really think everyone is putting all their eggs into the "42 is mafia" basket and when I flip town everyone's just going to be confused.


Thing is that I'm trying for people to put their eggs into the 42 is mafia basket. Too many are switching over to another idea. If you happen to flip town, then combined with Vinnie's flip, we'll have a lot of information on Web and Dan.


And what are you going to do about that?

Let's just speak a hypothetical scenario here. I'm town I get lynched. Vinnie's town he dies. Two vig shots (maybe three) are gone. Maf makes a kill, tomorrow is Web vs Dan, also 3 out of the 7 people alive are mafia so there is no room for error.

Do you really want that to happen? You're not going to win from that position. It's possible just highly unlikely.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #716 - 01/10/17 at 18:29:11  
Vinnie being mafia would be very convenient. If Vinnie and I are both town this game is lost.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #717 - 01/10/17 at 18:30:11  
Screw it, I'm just about ready to lynch 42 after that TERRIBLE, ASININE AWFUL HORRIBLE RIDICULOUSLY STUPID idea that he should night shoot if he is town.  All mafia need is one control and BANG a town is dead for free, extra maf vig kill.  42, you should KNOW how terrible an idea this would be if you are town.  You're literally just saying this shit so you'll live as mafia.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #718 - 01/10/17 at 18:30:53  
At the same time Vinnie could easily just vote me if he was mafia.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #719 - 01/10/17 at 18:31:59  
DansGame wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:30:11:
Screw it, I'm just about ready to lynch 42 after that TERRIBLE, ASININE AWFUL HORRIBLE RIDICULOUSLY STUPID idea that he should night shoot if he is town.  All mafia need is one control and BANG a town is dead for free, extra maf vig kill.  42, you should KNOW how terrible an idea this would be if you are town.  You're literally just saying this shit so you'll live as mafia.


If a town is dead for free then I'm cleared. It's better than me being lynched. One town dead either way. At least I'll make mafia use their redirect this way.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #720 - 01/10/17 at 18:33:48  
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:31:59:
DansGame wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:30:11:
Screw it, I'm just about ready to lynch 42 after that TERRIBLE, ASININE AWFUL HORRIBLE RIDICULOUSLY STUPID idea that he should night shoot if he is town.  All mafia need is one control and BANG a town is dead for free, extra maf vig kill.  42, you should KNOW how terrible an idea this would be if you are town.  You're literally just saying this shit so you'll live as mafia.


If a town is dead for free then I'm cleared. It's better than me being lynched. One town dead either way. At least I'll make mafia use their redirect this way.


What I'm saying is if I'm redirected then fine yes I shoot a town. It still clears me. Alternatively you lynch me and I'm town. That's a town dead both ways. I'd rather at least use up a redirect, or if they have none left after using it on Vinnie (assuming he's still town) then more power to me.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #721 - 01/10/17 at 18:34:05  
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:31:59:
DansGame wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:30:11:
Screw it, I'm just about ready to lynch 42 after that TERRIBLE, ASININE AWFUL HORRIBLE RIDICULOUSLY STUPID idea that he should night shoot if he is town.  All mafia need is one control and BANG a town is dead for free, extra maf vig kill.  42, you should KNOW how terrible an idea this would be if you are town.  You're literally just saying this shit so you'll live as mafia.


If a town is dead for free then I'm cleared. It's better than me being lynched. One town dead either way. At least I'll make mafia use their redirect this way.


No, it's actually not at all better than you being lynched.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #722 - 01/10/17 at 18:35:59  
DansGame wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:34:05:
42 wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:31:59:
DansGame wrote on 01/10/17 at 18:30:11:
Screw it, I'm just about ready to lynch 42 after that TERRIBLE, ASININE AWFUL HORRIBLE RIDICULOUSLY STUPID idea that he should night shoot if he is town.  All mafia need is one control and BANG a town is dead for free, extra maf vig kill.  42, you should KNOW how terrible an idea this would be if you are town.  You're literally just saying this shit so you'll live as mafia.


If a town is dead for free then I'm cleared. It's better than me being lynched. One town dead either way. At least I'll make mafia use their redirect this way.


No, it's actually not at all better than you being lynched.


Assume I'm telling the truth, that I'm town with an unused vig shot. How is me living to shoot a town worse than me being lynched as town today? This is coming from you, who is still voting J-Cop with me.
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #723 - 01/10/17 at 18:36:08  
@Dan why is your vote still on J-Cop if you believe that lynching 42 is the best option?
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Re: Mafia: Day 2
Reply #724 - 01/10/17 at 18:36:24  
Maybe I'm missing a key piece of this puzzle but I don't think I am.
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