Zwiebel wrote on 08/13/16 at 12:09:52:

Not sure whose idea it was, but Kyle was on a Mafia team 2 games ago (Shock’s high powers) were they went for the low-hanging fruit on N1 (Lafungo). So I wouldn’t put it past Kyle.

ALAKTORN wrote on 08/13/16 at 12:06:36:

I really hated your approach to Dan on D1. It wasn't a genuine approach of trying to gather information, rather it was more of a bad trap. Here's how I viewed the sequence of events:
- You put pressure on Dan. This is fine and necessary, we're not going to learn about people without some pressure of course.
- Dan now has 3 options to respond to your pressure: defend, retaliate, or do nothing.
- Dan chooses to both defend AND retaliate.
- You scumread Dan. This is the part that I don't like - you can't just scumread somebody for responding to your pressure, he didn't have a choice but to respond to it.

Like I said, I don't like that approach at all - it doesn't seem like information gathering, it seems more like a witch hunt. Townies need to be in information gathering mode at all times, not witch hunt mode.

johnboy81918 wrote on 08/13/16 at 12:08:37:


I think m/m is possible, I think m/t is very likely and t/t very unlikely.

About Alaktorn, do you really think he would go so hard D1 on a target he would know was town on D1? So much unneccessary pressure he puts on himself by doing that if he's maf. I think he just was very sure of himself. I mean, there's the slight possibility of him setting that all up so we would think he would be Town, but I doubt it.

Zwiebel wrote on 08/13/16 at 12:18:03:

Thinking about it more, does this quote make m/m more or less likely?
TvK wrote on 08/13/16 at 10:57:47:

If they were m/m, Dan could easily have said that in their private chat, why post it here?

Zwiebel wrote on 08/13/16 at 12:18:03:

Yes, I do think Michele would do it - he's always that sure of himself lol. Why not use that excuse, since you're going to provide it for him? I could definitely believe maf!Michele doing something like that D1, then saying "why would I stick my neck out so hard against 1 person if I were maf??" in order to appear more townie.

ALAKTORN wrote on 08/13/16 at 12:22:22:

While that is true, your first post against Dan was 38, when the game was less than an hour old. There wasn't a lot of scummy behavior to pursue at that juncture.

ALAKTORN wrote on 08/13/16 at 12:22:22:

I haven't disliked anything you've done on D2, actually. I still don't want to change my vote to a wagon yet (already 2 wagons at 3 votes each), but based on how YS and TYG have been today, I'm fine with either of those lynches as well.

ALAKTORN wrote on 08/13/16 at 12:22:22:

A fair point, I didn't address the question completely as it was framed. The way Dan was replying to you made me feel like it was a m/t interaction (hence why I felt *one* of you was likely maf), but at the time I couldn't tell which *content* was more maf-like. When I felt like it was m/t interaction, the deciding factor to me was the method in which you were attacking him.

Heading out for the evening for real now, will check in again later.

TvK wrote on 08/13/16 at 11:43:13:


You really think a TYG lynch is the best lynch today?

TYG, independently of anything else, is still my top scumread.  However, I think a Yoshistar lynch would be really good as well and tell us a lot about you.  First of all, YS is a confusing player and doesn't add much to the game when he posts.  In addition, consider this...

If YS is mafia, TvK is also likely mafia and TYG is likely town.  Yoshistar generally feels threatened by the presence of TvK in most games because TvK goes hard after him most of the time as part of his inexperienced player scumhunting plan.  However, Yoshistar's first reaction to TvK today was feeling very comfortable with TvK's play.  Check it out:

Yoshistar™ wrote on 08/13/16 at 07:39:44:


Here's the better part: TvK has said that part of his play is to go after inexperienced town members.  See here:

TvK wrote on 08/13/16 at 10:13:14:


Which is all well and good.  TvK has put a lot of pressure on Racer, PAF, and TYG that I can remember.  He has listed TYG as his biggest scumlean, and puts Yoshistar right under him.  See here:

TvK wrote on 08/13/16 at 06:59:01:


So you would think that TvK would probably try to push Yoshistar a lot today given that he's his 2nd biggest scumlean, right?

Believe it or not, TvK hasn't really pushed Yoshistar at all.  I went back and looked, and literally the only two interactions TvK has with Yoshistar are post 616 and post 456.  He hasn't quoted him to ask a single question today which is his play with every other inexperienced town.  This has huge scumlights flashing in my head.

The reason why I wanted a lot of heat on TvK today was to see how people responded.  Inexperienced mafia members would probably be really quick to jump on TvK if he were town, and inexperienced town members might be quick to jump on the possibility of TvK being mafia either way.  However, what was most surprising to me was seeing Yoshistar defend TvK.

I think a world where TvK and Yoshistar are mafia with TYG as town is a real possibility.  If TvK rolled mafia with Yoshistar, I think he wouldn't be afraid for him to be a lynch at some point but would absolutely prefer that Yoshistar doesn't post much because I know he would be afraid for him to scumslip and ruin the game for mafia.  To me, this is a very reasonable explanation for why TvK has left Yoshistar out of his push for finding information from inexperienced players: he knows that if he were to question Yoshistar in the open, it could lead to bad things.  He would have to coach the whole interaction for it to be safe, and even then it could make Yoshistar look really bad, because it's likely Yoshistar would sound coached.

TYG fits in as town in this world because TvK wants TYG to be the lynch today.  He currently thinks the wagon on TYG was likely clean, but if he's mafia that knows TYG is town, he'd be willing for TYG to get lynched and then act surprised tomorrow that he flipped town, leading him to question his idea that the TYG wagon was clean.  This is the mislynch chain that helps TvK mafia win the game.

If Yoshistar was lynched and flips town, then that throws all this logic out, however that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world anyway given how confusing Yoshistar is, as we know.

Thoughts from everyone?

Okay, I've taken my time to look at Leone's other top scumread:

Yoshistar™ wrote on 08/11/16 at 11:03:40:


As we know Yoshistar is notorious for posting nothing substantial and mostly just missing the point completely. However, in this game he has slightly changed in style. For example, here he must have read at least part of the thread up to there, and he comes in with one of his famous fluffposts. At first glance, this seems to be Yoshistar as we know him, however, he does feel the need to come up with an excuse as to why isn't doing what people are expecting from him (namely, cooperating). In previous games he never felt the need to give an excuse as to why he was fluffposting. Was he probably not planning on joining so soon, and was he convinced by his mafchat buddies to at least come in post something? Possibly yes.

Yoshistar™ wrote on 08/11/16 at 11:09:13:


He doesn't trust this one. Great job Yoshistar, classic OMGUS here. Moving on.

Yoshistar™ wrote on 08/11/16 at 11:44:55:


More classic Yoshistar. I don't even have a clue of what he's saying here. However, the part between brackets once again sticks out for me. Apparently he only now got through all of the posts (almost an hour after his first post). I once again ask the same question: was YS prompted by his mafchat buds to come in and at least say something fluffy to draw away some attention. After all, Dan and Kyle had both mentioned YS as a good target for the day already.

Yoshistar™ wrote on 08/11/16 at 11:57:41:


I might be looking into it too deeply, but what does he mean with "when I know more"? It's like he's basically telling us that he'll post more when his buddies give him more instructions on what to post.

Yoshistar™ wrote on 08/11/16 at 12:29:39:


Is it me, or does YS seem like he's suddenly gotten a lot smarter in the past couple of posts. In a previous post he even announced that he was going to look at ALAKTORN more in-depth. It's like they were talking about ALAKTORN and YS got coached to post something like this.

Yoshistar™ wrote on 08/11/16 at 12:35:48:


Such a cheap way to stay off the Leone (confirmed town now) wagon and give himself a free pass to choose another one if necessary.

Yoshistar™ wrote on 08/11/16 at 14:43:54:


I call him out for his bad vote. However, he doesn't even deny it, he tells it exactly as what I call him out for.

Yoshistar™ wrote on 08/11/16 at 15:09:37:


This is more of a guess by my, but how did YS come up with the maf chatting in the background by himself. I could be wrong here, but I've never heard him say anything like that before, unless someone in the 10 posts before him had mentioned it (which is not the case). Did he feel the need to add that because he's constantly chatting in the background himself?

All of his other 5 posts contain either promises to catch up or announcements that he's going to go to sleep. Are his mafia buddies happy with the way he was able to get through the first day without receiving any of the spotlight? Did they instruct him to maybe post something and lay low for the rest of the day? I can see this possibility.

Okay this post took me a long time to write, so I'll spend the next bit of time catching up on what has happened in the meantime. Tl;dr I'm totally on board with a Yoshistar lynch today. Keeping my vote with me because the last time I checked, he was at three already.

Also Dan, what are the possibilities for people not really following you in your suspicions of me? Racer has given me some pressure. I've done a bit of discussing with John, but that was mainly because I was having some suspicions on him. ALAKTORN has mentioned me as a potential mafia member, but that also all goes back to Yoshistar defending me. Does this make me more likely to be mafia, with my final buddy (YS being my other one) lurking in the shadows? This would mean that a lot of town members aren't convinced yet. Or would that make me more probable to be town with mafia waiting how your pressure on me works out before they step in theirselves?

TvK wrote on 08/13/16 at 13:38:55:

Just letting you know I read this post of yours but I haven't read everything in the last few pages yet to see what exactly people's recent interactions with you have been.  Gonna do that now and then answer this.

TvK is jumping really late on the YS wagon. It looks like damage control bussing.


I kinda wish we were playing blitz, it takes too long to get any real information. I just wish we were done with this lynch (either TYG or YS it’s looking like, so far) to get to the point. On that note, when will D2 end? Shock needs to put a clock or something in the OP…

Day ends in 16h40m unless a majority is given.

I'm probably going to take a shower and clear my head for a while, I've been posting a bit too long now. Although I encourage the pressure you put on me Dan, we cannot let this turn into another Dan-ALAK argument like in the first day. Even if I am scum, that still leaves buddies of mine lurking on the sidelines.

Instead of reminding us when day ends, you might as well post something useful instead YS..do you not care that you might get lynched?

If you are Town, then start looking at the people who agress you, some of them are probably Mafia. Who do you think is Maf out of the people who are going after you? What do you make of the connections that people tie you to(specifically TvK/you and Kyle/you). What do you think about people going after TvK? Who do you think is flying under the radar? What lynch do you think is the best right now? Who is your top Mafia lean right now? The more input you give us, the more we can analyse it...I mean, look at Sportsguy. He didn't post anything of value D1, that's why we can't get any info from his posts either. It's a big loss for Town if people don't post much. I'd much rather keep someone around that I think might be Maf, but is posting a lot(for example Dan).

As long as you don't answer all these questions, you will be a top suspect for me. Same goes for TYG, if you are Town then get on with posting, even if you think it's just minor things or that " you might get framed for it". If you don't post what you think then you're not helping Town.

and @TYG, you mentioned that you think Dan and TvK are Maf. Please elaborate on why you think that is the case. My gut says me it's a possibility, but I don't have a lot of arguments for it. Do you have any more? Or was that just gut feeling as well?