Leone wrote on 08/12/16 at 14:56:31:


I'm pretty sure I always was in favor of lynching Dan over you.

I'm actually not sure what the best choice is right now...I mean, the whole day was actually just people being mostly all over Leone. There were attempts to create other wagons but none really took off. I went super hard on Dan cause I wanted to get another wagon going, and he seemed like the best choice for it. I still think his claim wasn't good Town play and that he is possibly scum, however my main reason was that I did not only want one wagon for EOD, cause that's the worst possible scenario for us. The TYG wagon is a good shot, but maybe it's too late. I just think you get a lot more information if there's actually a close votecount until the end.

Either way, just putting all of my leans out in case I die:

Town:

Zoran (I already explained why, had some fluff early, but pressured a lot of people, some good points)

Alaktorn (I don't see him being so arrogant and aggressive as a Maf player. Hasn't done much, but he's pretty close to his usual self, which for me is an indicator of not acting, but just saying whatever comes to his mind. Maybe not the most helpful D1, but I'd give him a town lean for now)

Racer (mainly gut feeling, but I get a lot of Town vibes from his posts. Tries to be useful, not too aggressive, but not afrad to say anything either. Tried to put heat on Sportsguy, which I liked)


Neutral:

Sportsguy (always plays like this D1, literally impossible to read D1. I don't like his style of doing that every game, but then again if he thinks it's the right approach I guess we'll have to live with it.)

TvK (gives me Town vibes, but it's D1 and I think he's one of the best players in this game, so I don't think those Town vibes mean much at all so far. Need more time and info to figure him out)

John(No idea honestly, but I haven't read too much into him tbh. Hasn't posted much)

Kyle(Had some posts with things that I actually agree on, but also has some posts just wagoning without own arguments. Not sure right now.)

P.A.F (gut feeling said Town, but his last vote on Leone looks pretty terrible. Undecided.)


Mafia:

Dan (I already explained a lot why I think he's fishy. Obviously speaking against him being Maf is the fact that he is posting a lot and seems to try very hard to get conversation goin. I still think it might just be him panicking and trying to deal with the pressure he had in the beginning by posting a lot, but he has made some fair points(and some that don't make sense to me.)

Yoshistar (I don't really remember him adding anything useful to this game so far. Has posted that he will read through and give us analysis , but I don't remember him actually doing it. Needs to step up D2 or he should be a candidate for lynch tomorrow)

TYG (basically the same as Yoshistar to me, didn't really add anything of value to the discussion, easy on the trigger to jump on other people's leans without own insight. Should also be investigated closely tomorrow..or maybe lynched today?)

Leone (Voting for himself is pretty dumb, but then again it's kind of a strange move to do if you are Mafia(or Town too for that matter...)Might just be dumb Town or Mafia..I'd rather lean to Mafia right now, but it's a close call.

Honestly, since the choice seems to be between Leone and TYG, I'm actually gonna go ahead and say that I think both could flip Maf, but I think TYG is more likely to flip Maf than Leone. And on top of that it gives as a second wagon for EOD, which as I said is imo better than just having one lynch with no counterwagon. Maybe I will reconsider in the time left, but for now I'll

[vote] unvote [/vote]
[vote] TYG[/vote]

TvK wrote on 08/12/16 at 17:01:56:


Why do you think Leone is a stronger player than TYG, experience? I only played the resistance game with them and I don't think that's a good basis to judge in this game.

And can you summarize the main arguments that speak against Leone in your opinion? To be honest, I don't know if it will be easier to read TYG tomorrow, if he keeps the low postcount up. At least  Leone is posting a lot more now.

1 hour 16 minutes until EoD. Just a reminder.

Zwiebel wrote on 08/12/16 at 17:13:28:


I remember Leone talking about previous maf games and he has shown some thorough understanding of the game and its mechanics. Also, in previous games I have been able to correctly identify TYG as both mafia and town, so I'm confident enough that I'll be able to do that again, even with TYG's limited post count.

As for my case against Leone: his first couple of posts were awful. I don't care what the excuse for it was, but coming and voting someone, only to withdraw that vote as soon as being called out for it is dreadful. At that point, we got a promise from him that he'd come up with more in-depth analysis. However, what he came up with were long posts that always seemed to conclude the same thing: a neutral lean, except for John, who was a slight maf lean.

At this point, Leone withheld his vote, as if he wanted to check if town would approve of his scumread of John. Then came the self-vote, which was awful, but we've already gone over that. Then I specifically told him to use his vote, and he put it on John. However, in that same post he mentions that ALAK is his top scumread. It seems a lot like Leone was too afraid to go after ALAK, because that would only draw even more attention to him. Instead he went for the safe option, John, who was never going to be the lynch.

His next posts of analysis either contain another neutral read on anyone, or no reads at all. Then Dan puts his vote on Leone. Leone even asks "give me a reason to move my vote from John to TYG". Next up is Zoran who votes TYG. And tadaah: there's the lifeline Leone needs; he eagerly jumps aboard. The weirdest thing of all is that in his general readspost, he even lists ALAKTORN as probable town, even though ALAK was his top scumread twice throughout this game.

And that's basically where we are right now. There's too many inconsistencies, and too many cautious moves, and too much safe play. I simply can't convince myself that Leone is town at this point.

no control wrote on 08/12/16 at 17:37:05:


When did TYG start talking and start looking better?  He disappeared once he started getting pressure on him.

TvK wrote on 08/12/16 at 17:06:16:


My feeling now is that this late in the day, if people start moving onto the TYG wagon to the point that TYG gets lynched, I think he's likely to flip town and mafia will try to mislynch me tomorrow for starting the wagon (should Leone be mafia), or Leone (if Leone is town).

DansGame wrote on 08/12/16 at 17:57:16:


I agree it is terrible, you and i see it. However, TYG did have some weird moves in the past and i could see that in his mind he genuinely can believe what he wrote there.  At that point as i put my vote on him and demanded a list, had he posted it there would be no problem.

TvK wrote on 08/12/16 at 17:35:57:


This is the first actual game I've played. See it as understanding an advanced MK strat but sucking at trying it yourself.

Quote:


Yeah, my first posts were BS & I didn't get through as many investigations as I'd've liked. Suspicious AF of John for reasons laid out in my posts on him. Oh well, guess my bad play dug me into an inescapable hole.

Quote:


I never mentioned ALAK being my top maf read?  

I would've gotten to ALAK but my time was split between too many things so I never got to him.

Quote:


1.) Only got through a few ppl, late at night.

2.) I saw Zoran vote TYG after I posted my vote.

3.) My original BS lean on ALAK was retracted in my 2nd post; I'm p sure ALAK is town based on how clueless he is.

Too late to stop the wagon momentum though. Be mindful of John YS & TYG after I'm gone. Almost certain TvK ALAK Dan are town.

Leone wrote on 08/12/16 at 18:24:17:

Including Zwiebel?

^check that, other way around. SG bussed ALAK w/ a single vote D1 in Brett's game.

DansGame wrote on 08/12/16 at 18:25:09:


Yeah, Zwiebel is a weak town lean to me. He seems to be trying to shed light on players who've not received much heat so far (except you, of course). Ofc keep an eye on him, but if he's maf he's good.

I guess I'll go with Leone.
[vote]Leone[/vote]

Put my death to good use guys, look at all D1 interactions and vote history critically.

Pce.