Again I'm going to ask are we dead positive that Leone is a spy. No one ever really responded to me about him.  I am willing to consider that there may have been two spies on that last mission and that that is the reason it didn't fail first time around (the rationale for that is that if two spies were on the mission and both failed, it would look really bad).  I don't know, trying to wrap my brain around what might be happening here before I make a proposal. I have a graduation to be at tonight and then I'll propose later tonight or tomorrow morning after more thought.

LewisRichards wrote on 06/20/16 at 12:23:21:


I would suggest reading the rules first, TYG. We need to send 5 people, and spies need to submit two FAILS to fail the mission. So I ask you again, how many spies are there in {Racer, Zac, Leone}?

DansGame wrote on 06/20/16 at 12:41:02:


How can you possibly explain that EVERYONE not on the mission approved this mission? That alone should confirm to us that there indeed was a spy on board. Zwiebel and I had been leading the conversation all day, but Leone had been awfully quiet up until the moment he submitted his proposal. Out of nowhere, people approve of a mission with him aboard. Zwiebel and I immediatly start questioning people and we both conclude that Leone has to be the Spy on our mission. Nobody else ever stepped in to defend Leone.

Then there's Leone's defense to Zwiebel and me thinking he's the spy on the proposal. He promises to "do some digging", and the only thing he comes up with is "hey wait, maybe we are all resistance?".

On to the second and third missions: how big do you think is the chance that neither Zwiebel nor me would fail the second mission if we were Spies? How far would a spy go to earn some rebelcred? Pass two missions in a row? Allow his team to go down 2-0, while the rest of the rebels are figuring out his two spybuddies? Also, don't you think that Zwiebel or me could have easily failed the mission and made the rest of the sheeprebels believe that Racer or Zac was a Spy? I'll tell you this: if I'm a spy I would fail the hell out of any mission I'm taken on.

I think that 1 of Zac or Racer is a spy, because you cannot convince me that they would both pass the 2nd mission and have only 1 fail in the 3rd. The spies had no choice on the third mission. THEY HAD TO FAIL, OR ELSE THE GAME WOULD HAVE BEEN OVER. At this point, I won't care to find out which one of the two is the spy, because we can win without taking any of them on the next mission.

As it seems now, the spies have dug themselves a hole which they cannot get out of anymore. Do you think either Zwiebel or me would have let it come to this? If it turns out that I am wrong about this, then we can worry about which one of Zac/Racer is a spy, because as I've pointed out in the previous paragraph, there is no way that both of them are.

Yoshistar™ wrote on 06/20/16 at 12:35:21:


I really want to start listening to you, but clearly you aren't listening to me either, because you don't answer my questions. And you know what we call people that don't answer questions?

1. They have something to hide because they are a SPY.
2. They are lazy. And a certain scumhunter told me this:

Yoshistar™ wrote on 06/20/16 at 12:51:53:


Lazy = spy, so they are a spy as well.

TvK, I don't know if you realized it but the aggression with which you post in these games make the less experienced players afraid to go against you for any reason. It also makes them sheep because they are afraid of going against the crowd and getting reprimanded. I think it's possible that they could have approved the first mission without a spy on board; furthermore, it's also still possible that you and/or Zweibel are spies.

I'm being pushed into this aggressive role myself as well, Dan, because we would have gotten nowhere if nobody had been aggressive. There are only 8 people in this game. If you're role PM says you're a rebel, then you should know that almost half of the others in the game are spies. Which means that you NEED to DO something to win this game. This is not mafia were 2 or 3 people can take command and you can just follow their lead. You have to make you own decisions if you want your faction to win the game.

I had two choices starting this game: either I would take full control and push people into following my lead, or I would have people to try and think as much as they can theirselves and work together to come to the right solutions. The entire first mission I've been trying to do the latter. I've been trying really hard to make people understand that if they're rebels, they should try their hardest to get on that proposal. I've been trying to tell people that if they're rebel every mission with them on the proposal has a higher chance of passing then if there aren't. I ask specific questions to people with the full intent of having them think about what they're doing.

Then again, people are still way too afraid of making mistakes. I've maybe made the most mistakes of any in this game, but that doesn't stop me from trying to win this game for the rebels. Mafia and resistance are both psychological games, so yes, obviously I'm going to be aggressive towards people, and I'm going to try to get under people's skins. That's all just part of a game. I hope everybody in here understands that the way I'm questioning you here has nothing to with whether I like you or not. I really have great respect for any of you, but that doesn't mean I'll be aggressive towards you while we're playing this game.

TYG, I actually believe that you're making great progress in understanding this game and I really want to work together with you to solve it. That doesn't mean I'll always agree with everything you say, and that I'll follow your lead when I think you're in the wrong. But that also doesn't mean that you should agree with me disagreeing with you. The best thing to do in any case is question everything anyone does. That will give you the answers you're looking for.

I'm really trying to get everyone involved in this game, because I'm too afraid of what happens if I don't. What do you think people would be doing if I wasn't questioning them constantly? Would they accept the first proposal they see? Would they randomly choose people to go with them if they're mission leader? I don't want to see that, so I keep on asking questions. It doesn't help that if I take the time to ask someone a bunch of questions, that person flat out ignores me and calls me a spy with no evidence to back up that claim. Things like that make me more aggressive, because they make my spy-dar ping. Everytime we've come to a decision, people seem to relax and wait for someone else to tell them what to do next. Things like that make me more aggressive, because it is only in the interest of spies to clog the discussion.

I'll try to be less aggressive in my ways of posting, but that doesn't take away that I want people to answer my questions.

TYG: How many spies are there in {Leone, Zac, Racer} according to you?

There should be no question regarding Tvk's and my alignments...we were basically leading all discussion up to this point and TvK had more or less the same thoughts that I had, which is always a good sign. On top of that, do you really think me and TvK would be on 3 missions and only fail 1? Honestly whoever the spy was on Mission 2 failed pretty miserably, cause he had to fail it...passing it is terrible play. I don't think a player of TvK's calibur would spend one minute to think about that decision. And as he said, if one of us(or both) would be spies, why would we not fail mission 2? It would be so easy to lead everyone else to believe what we say(let's be honest here)...to me it seems pretty obvious that TvK is Rebel, and if he's a spy he's foolin me damn good, but I doubt it.

Also I agree with Tvk, we know Leone is a spy and we know that either Racer or Zac or both are spies, so we just send TvK, Zwiebel, Yoshistar, TYG, DBMK64 on the mission and we should win.

This looks bad, but I am a R! Zac must be spy.
But if it is better for S I won't go.

*facepalm*
Complete accident.  

Problem in games like these is all words can seem empty, never know who to trust. Racer was one of my strongest rebel leads too :/

DansGame wrote on 06/20/16 at 12:41:02:


yes, Leone has been put out as a 100% spy... ever since Leone got called out on it, he went quiet and hasn't posted much since

LewisRichards wrote on 06/20/16 at 19:01:35:


what makes racer one of your strongest rebel lean?

I can't in good conscience accept that TvK and Zwiebel are both rebels without having gotten to really go through all these posts yet. Unfortunately I won't have time to do that before I have to propose so I'll throw out a very different proposal just to see how people react to it and buy us more time.

M4.1 DBMK64: DBMK64, TYG, Yoshistar, Zac, Racer727

☆ᓂ wrote on 06/20/16 at 20:19:17:


"Was" I don't really know about him now.