J-Cop wrote on 06/03/16 at 22:48:50:Bradon hasn't done any thinking for himself. He's just saying what everyone else is saying about players who everyone else is already suspicious of so that he can continue to go under the radar.
He voted for Sam on D1 when he and Zarkov were close in votes. This was his explanation:
Bradon wrote on 05/30/16 at 07:37:52:I've been reading through the posts and made up on my final vote for be day
[vote] Sam [/vote]
Zero reasoning here, he just voted for the counter wagon to Zarkov (confirmed maf) and disappeared for the rest of the day.
His entire Day 2 was two posts saying why he hasn't been online to play, and two other posts of defending himself. No opinions, no town or maf leans, no substance at all.
I'm putting my vote on him. If he shows up and starts playing like he actually wants to help the town, I'll consider taking it off of him, but I don't see any reasons not to think he's maf right now.
[vote]Bradon[/vote]
Sportsguy001 wrote on 06/03/16 at 10:45:45:lafungo has to be talking about his claim that shock n0 got a report that zarkov was vanilla town
Ok, this makes way more sense. I missed the point of his post by a mile.
J-Cop wrote on 06/03/16 at 08:59:04:I agree that we're putting too much emphasis on Kyle right now. There are 4 maf left, we can't scope out one person and call it a day.
I'm still heavily leaning maf on Lafungo. He's the one along with Kyle who pushed for the Racer lynch at the end of D1 that saved Zarkov. He also defended Zarkov 4 times by my count, even yesterday when it became increasingly obvious that Zarkov was scum.
J-Cop wrote on 06/01/16 at 23:05:45:Lafungo wrote on 06/01/16 at 19:17:02:Since I'm going to sleep soon and won't be back online until around a couple hours before EoD, I'll make this post now.
I believe that Zarkov was Shock's N0 peek.
I understand that people are going to see this and clamor about Shock's push on Zarkov throughout D1, but I think that Shock's opening post is much more important.
Shock knew from the start that if/when he'd die and be revealed cop that town would go back and comb through his posts for hints on his scans. Despite appearing to be a joke post on D1, in retrospect his opening post could easily be construed as a hint because of his joke roleclaim. From there, it's a given that people would assume his Zarkov "peek" was in fact real and left as a clue. He even mentioned in his big role post early on that cop should leave behind "subtle" info for town to find. I think that Shock putting a fake N0 peek in his opening post doesn't make sense with this in mind, as he'd know it would confuse town.
Of course, this all happened before any action took place, and Shock couldn't predict how the day would go. I think that his Zarkov push was done in part to cover himself from mafia suspicion, because one of mafia's main goals is to figure out who the cop is, and his opening post would have been much more telling for mafia than for town. I also think that Shock pushing Zarkov was a way for him to prod Zarkov for his opinions in a "natural" way, since Zarkov would be the only person that Shock could trust D1.
Saying that Shock wouldn't go after Zarkov is also disingenuous, because Shock would know that Zarkov was vanilla and wasn't that important to town, particularly if he wasn't contributing "well". It was also much more important for him to cover himself as cop than protect a vanilla townie.
More Lafungo defending Zarkov. This looks extremely bad if Zarkov flips maf.
J-Cop wrote on 06/01/16 at 23:01:03:Darius wrote on 06/01/16 at 10:52:26:I'm actually coming round to the idea that the late Racer wagon was all town. Scum would have known that he was town and would likely have been avoiding the risk of a late switch. It's even more likely if Sam is mafia.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a D1 lynch on a townie that didn't include any maf.
Darius wrote on 06/01/16 at 13:23:43:My guess is that mafia would shy away from such a frantic late wagon in just 20 minutes at the end of the day. I don't think they would want the extra attention and it was so close to the end of the day that they could legitimately avoid getting involved. It was so fast that I also buy everyone's vote switch as legitimate here; I think scum trying to co-ordinate wouldn't have had time to react to it and would have felt safer staying put, but genuine townies reacting to Racer's apparent scumslip would definitely want to vote for him.
I agree that the votes switched from Zarkov to Racer look legitimate, but Kyle and Lafungo weren't on the Zarkov wagon to begin with. They found something that could get attention off of Zarkov, and it wound up saving him on day 1. That looks bad to me.
Honko wrote on 06/01/16 at 17:22:19:The reaction of guys like J-Cop and Zoran to my case on Yoshistar worries me. I stated my case on the person who I felt was scummiest pretty early in the day (we were only about 10 hours in, and it was my first chance to post that day). Rather than comment on whether or not they agree that Yoshistar is scummy, they seem to be attacking me for daring to bring up a lynch other than Clark or Sam. If I were just bringing it up for the first time right now, sure, it would be a little late. But we were only 20% of the way into the day. I think I made it pretty clear that I agree Sam and Clark are both scummy, but I wanted to spark some discussion on Yoshistar because I think he's even worse. Why are you guys trying to shut that down, especially so early in the day?
I don't agree that Yoshistar is scummier that the other two. His posts are all over the place and his logic doesn't always make sense, but he played the same way last game and was town. I don't want to gamble on him being maf when we have such a strong case on Sam and especially Clark. I'd rather lynch someone who I'm more sure of. And I wasn't trying to attack you, I was simply pointing out that it made you look like scum to me.
J-Cop wrote on 06/01/16 at 09:51:56:Darius wrote on 06/01/16 at 09:45:12:Why did that take you so long, J-Cop?
I don't like voting too early, but we're at a point now halfway through D2 where I think Zarkov is our best choice and I don't think my opinion on that will change.
J-Cop wrote on 06/01/16 at 09:38:42:[vote]Zarkov[/vote]
J-Cop wrote on 06/01/16 at 09:36:53:Regarding hypothesizing: I like what Dan has done. Call it a waste of time if you want, but it could end up saving us a lot of time on D3 if we lynch Zarkov and he flips maf.
I still don't like that Honko is trying to talk everyone out of lynching Zarkov or Sam, and I'm surprised that no one else has taken issue with this. Zarkov is our best lynch candidate for D2, regardless of how scummy Yoshistar may look to you right now. We get way more information out of a Zarkov lynch since there have been far more connections between him and other players.
J-Cop wrote on 06/01/16 at 07:43:54:Here are three posts from Lafungo where he defended Zarkov.
Lafungo wrote on 05/30/16 at 07:30:20:no control wrote on 05/30/16 at 07:20:51:Lafungo any thoughts on Zarkov and his latest posts?
Would you lynch him?
My main concern with a Zarkov lynch is that he'd be a much bigger loss for town than any of the people I listed in my last post. While lynching him would give something to work with going into D2, I feel like a Sam lynch, for example, would work just as well and would only cost town a body at worst.
I still want to lynch Racer, but if that's not possible (and it's seeming increasingly likely), then I intend to switch my vote to Sam.
Lafungo wrote on 05/30/16 at 07:36:47:Shock wrote on 05/30/16 at 07:34:31:Lafungo wrote on 05/30/16 at 07:30:20:My main concern with a Zarkov lynch is that he'd be a much bigger loss for town than any of the people I listed in my last post.
I wouldn't call Zarkov a "much bigger loss" than the people in your list. His post count is low, he's only gone after inactives and has been playing what I feel is very much a "blending in" game, and in my view hasn't brought very much new material at all to the table anyway.
Do you think he can do much better in future days or something?
His contributions D1 are still much better than any of the people in my list. I would also expect Zarkov to be much more useful in the future than the others.
Lafungo wrote on 05/31/16 at 11:24:59:I stand by what I said EoD1: I think that Zarkov was the worst of the 3 possible lynches. I'm not particularly suspicious of him, and he contributed more than both Sam and Racer did D1 (and I would expect that trend to continue as the game continues).
DansGame wrote on 05/31/16 at 23:43:27:J-Cop wrote on 05/31/16 at 23:17:38:Btw Dan, I'm not sure what your lean on Darius is. You say you were suspicious of him for going after Racer, but you also defend him for saying he would switch to Zarkov if necessary. What is your lean on him right now? He never actually voted for Zarkov, is it possible he just said that for town cred?
I think it's possible Darius just said that for town cred, but I'm not sure because that's a very risky play for a mafia member to make if it's against a fellow mafia.
It's risky, but it's also possible that he only would have switched his vote to him if Zarkov ever tied with Sam, or passed him in votes. Basically if it was guaranteed that Zarkov was getting lynched, he would have put his vote on him to give himself town-cred.
DansGame wrote on 05/31/16 at 23:43:27:Does anyone debate that if we lynched Zarkov and he turned up mafia that it would pretty much clear Yoshistar and cast a very suspicious light on people like Kyle?
Imo a Zarkov lynch is our best option D2. Kyle starting the Racer wagon to take heat off the others, Lafungo joining it early and also defending Zarkov a few times (I'll find quotes after I'm finished with this post), Honko telling us we should lynch Yoshistar instead. It would give us good information on these 3 for sure
J-Cop wrote on 05/31/16 at 23:49:41:This post looks bad to me:
Honko wrote on 05/31/16 at 20:39:21:I don't trust most of the people on these top two lynches, and therefore I don't trust the lynches themselves, despite Sam and Clark both being really scummy yesterday and slightly less scummy but still not great today.
Let's lynch Yoshistar instead. He's been scummy all game, and yet he never picked up more than a couple of votes, despite TvK doing an excellent job of showing how terrible he was. Smells like mafia wanting to keep the focus on other trains. His vote change late in D1 also stood out to me as one of the worst.
The "let's lynch Yoshitstar instead" part sounds scummy. Why not lynch Sam? Why not lynch Zarkov? They've both looked bad throughout the entire game. What reason do you have for not wanting one of them dead? You even said yourself that they both look scummy. I understand that other players may also look like worthy lynches, but why talk people out of lynching Sam or Zarkov?
Zoran's reply sums up my thoughts pretty well:
no control wrote on 05/31/16 at 23:08:15:You haven't been posting half of d1 and you show among last on d2 and this is how you enter?
Why weren't you active in the crucial parts of the game so far?
You don't trust wow. Give me us names, be more specific. Also who do you trust the most, names please.
After being away i would expect much more then this. Hopefully it will come.
Particularly the highlighted part. Why don't you trust the lynches?
@Dan: your long post makes sense to me, but I read it at 2AM and may not be thinking straight. If I understand everything correctly, you're saying that if Zarkov is maf, then Kyle and Lafungo probably are as well? That much I agree with, as I've already stated I'm suspicious of those two already.
Btw Dan, I'm not sure what your lean on Darius is. You say you were suspicious of him for going after Racer, but you also defend him for saying he would switch to Zarkov if necessary. What is your lean on him right now? He never actually voted for Zarkov, is it possible he just said that for town cred?
J-Cop wrote on 05/31/16 at 10:04:35:Darius wrote on 05/31/16 at 09:21:11:I don't agree about his 'too eager to kill Racer' line of attack because I don't see how that's a scumtell.
This is the way I read it:
There were two wagons, Sam and Zarkov. Racer made that bizarre slip and Kyle pounced on it. He and Lafungo helped start another wagon on someone who had already looked bad for most of the day, and it saved Sam or Zarkov from getting lynched. It looks to me like at least one of them (possibly both) is m/m with either Sam or Zarkov. That's why being eager to get Racer killed looks scummy to me.
J-Cop wrote on 05/31/16 at 08:18:04:I won't be very active until later tonight, but I'll share my thoughts from EoD1.
Dan's last second vote to make it a tie gives me a town lean on him. Think from the perspective of maf in that situation. If Sam and Racer are both town, you probably wouldn't care who gets lynched between the two, so voting for Sam to make it a RNG lynch wouldn't give any strategic advantage. If Sam is maf and Racer is town, you wouldn't want to risk Sam being the one to randomly get killed, so you wouldn't vote him to make it a tie. This doesn't guarantee that Dan is town, but I think it shows that he and Sam aren't m/m and it gives me a town lean on him.
Kyle was quick to point out Racer's "slip", and these 2 posts look scummy to me:
kyleb30 wrote on 05/30/16 at 07:46:11:I was getting ready to back off and switch my votes to people that matter most, but now there's no way in hell. I'm so convinced Racer is maf, there's no reason for me to switch.
kyleb30 wrote on 05/30/16 at 07:50:53:In case this turns out sour, TvK, Shock, and Tim all jumped from Zarkov to Racer. Good information to know.
He was dead set on getting Racer killed. Racer was town. He also threw Shock, Timothy, and TvK under the bus even though Shock and TvK came across very pro-town. It sounds like he was trying to create evidence against them because he knew it would be hard to get them lynched.
Before the wagon on Racer had started, Lafungo seemed disappointed that Racer wouldn't be killed:
Lafungo wrote on 05/30/16 at 07:34:16:Well, since a Racer lynch isn't happening...
[vote]Sam F[/vote]
... and like Kyle, he also came across a little too eager to kill Racer.
Lafungo wrote on 05/30/16 at 07:45:10:Two slips from Racer? It isn't too late to lynch him.
I pointed it out on D1, but I might as well say it again. Lafungo's style of posting is way different than it was in the last game when he was town. What he did in Shock's game was helpful to the town, so why isn't he playing the same way this time?
The other people who voted for Racer did so because he said something stupid that made himself look bad, but Kyle and Lafungo sounded a little too excited about it when people found a reason to lynch Racer. I'm leaning maf on both of them, especially Lafungo.
@Darius: my vote on you was just to get your attention. I wanted you to share some thoughts on people besides Shock, but I have no intention on lynching you.
I won't be able to post again before EoD, so I'm putting my vote down now. To me, Zarkov and Sam appeared to not give a shit about the game. Clark has come around a little bit, but clearly Sam hasn't. And claiming vanilla town is an easy fake claim when there are 12 vanilla towns. As I said before, Vinnie appears town to me because he's acting the same way he did in Shock's game. If those are the three wagons to pick from, I'm going with Sam.
[vote]Sam[/vote]
Every J-Cop post that mentions Zarkov... shoutouts to ctrl F
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