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Poll Poll
Question: Separate?

Yes  
  64 (64%)
No  
  36 (36%)




Total votes: 100
« Created by: JACOB@MK8 on: 04/04/15 at 12:59:22 »

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Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players (Read 3961 times)
Diogo
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #100 - 05/04/15 at 07:12:42
 
Ok guys,time to start up again with the topic itself. Screw the cheater topic and everything else,back to the wheel gain.

A few days ago, Kai found out that just the wiimote alone ( So,you drive by using the directional pad on the up of the wiimote,use A or B to shroom, + for start, - to look behind you, 1 for drifts and hops ( also braking :/ ) and 2 to accelerate. ) can give the same exact advantage as Wii Wheel.

He got Cheese Land WR for a few hours (until Chonko3 got it back because he's simply a beast) with this strat.

At first I thought he just switched to wheel at some turns. Then I tried it myself. First used it on CL aswell. The gain time is real,and is exactly the same as wheel. I improved my Baby Park time by .4 ( and it still sucks ) , my cheese land by .5 with a missed MT, and my NBC by .3 mainly because I can't brake and I failed lap3.

My thoughts about the wiimote dpad

Incredible find. Might save the game,might ruin it. Some players still refuse to switch to it, but people like me Kai Jamie or even Cole will switch. But,for now,I refuse to use it on tracks where wheel is sure to maybe never come ( such as TTC ) to be fair with the WR holders. Also,apparently, you must own a Wii Motion Plus to have a traction gain with dpad ( I use the Zelda Skyward Sword Wiimote , but Stacy had to mod his controller to gain time ) unless some players can prove they didn't need a Wii Motion Plus to gain time.

Should separate charts still happen?

To me,yes. Not on the Players' Page,but on mkwrs.com. The time gain is still not fair,it should have never existed. Of course we'll have to switch but that doesn't mean we can't make separate charts.

Is it possible to notice if someone used wiimote dpad or not ?

It sure is. Just either race the ghost,or look up at the slides,turns,or even anything else. As a new dpad user ( even if I can't play a lot ) I'll be using wheel slides with dpad,to make sure people will know that my time was done with dpad, instead of my favourite controller,gamepad.

Time to switch ladies. Cole,I just hope you take the best decision. You already are using dpad ( Nice new strat on BP too  Tongue ) and you're already aware of its gain. Up to you now.
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #101 - 05/04/15 at 07:39:58
 
Can confirm you get the traction on a REGULAR wii remote and yes, the charts should still happen
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #102 - 05/04/15 at 08:08:33
 
If people are gonna switch to DPad to get the Wheel gain, then the separation has even less meaning than it did before, lol.

Why doesn’t the WU Gamepad DPad not work anyway? This is so retarded.
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ALAKTORN wrote on 11/22/17 at 05:24:31:
OH YEAH WHY AM I NOT GLOATING MORE

I PINNED DOWN KF!TIMUR AFTER 10 FUCKING POSTS

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL GET FUCKED

My YouTube

MKDS: 31 GODs, 28 Myths, 5 Titans, Hold 9 NoPRB CRs, Hold 11 PRB CRs, Hold 2 NoMT WRs, Held 7 NoPRB WRs and 8 Beta WRs
MKW: Held 2 3lap WRs, many Flaps
MK7: Held a lot of WRs
MK8: Held some WRs
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JACOB@MK8
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #103 - 05/04/15 at 08:33:04
 
^Seconded. Once again this game is a joke.

So it doesn't work for the dpad on the pro controller either? Not that it matters to me because my thumb naturally goes back up to the stick, in addition to not being able to do the simplistic of driving.

My point still stands as well. People should be able to use whatever they want without the worry of this gay-ass time gain. I'd continue with our original plan. Nothing has really changed. It just created more options for one side.
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Diogo
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #104 - 05/04/15 at 08:33:08
 
ALAKTORN wrote on 05/04/15 at 08:08:33:
If people are gonna switch to DPad to get the Wheel gain, then the separation has even less meaning than it did before, lol.

Why doesn’t the WU Gamepad DPad not work anyway? This is so retarded.


I suppose it's because the Gamepad DPad is considered as the analog stick

@Jacob : Pro controller doesn't gain either. Umbre tested. Only wiimote alone does. even with nunchuck you don't gain.

also Harm's point of view because this scrub went to bed  :


Personally I believe that now that there is a much easier alternative method to gain wheel advantage, there should be no reason for there to be seperate charts now.
People shouldn't bitch about having to switch to motion controls because now they don't have to, they simply have to take a few hours out of their day to learn a directional pad rather than a stick, which is clearly not that hard to adjust to judging by how quickly you, Cole, K4I, etc have done it.
Creating seperate charts now is basically useless to me because soon enough the stick players will be in the minority, and/or they'll just want to grasp at straws to have a WR. (Trust me, I can see some ppl doing this...)

At first I was against wheel advantage but now that it's even more widely available to anyone and hardly a difficult adjustment, I think there should be an effort to move the majority forward, to help move the game forward. This advantage is the new meta, time to move on.

I agree with his point,but I still kinda want separate charts


Jordan's point of view  :


On 5/4/2015, at 9:24 AM, Jordan wrote:
> idk why everyone is so hateful on wheel

On 5/4/2015, at 9:25 AM, Jordan wrote:
> and then fucking jumps on the chance to use dpad

On 5/4/2015, at 9:27 AM, Jordan wrote:
> dpad killed any chance for separate charts

On 5/4/2015, at 9:27 AM, Jordan wrote:
> because there is no symbol on wii u (sun)

On 5/4/2015, at 9:29 AM, Jordan wrote:
> if they do, mk8 will become people just lying about "I didn't use dpad !!!! Its a legit run !!!!" And then we have the mkw TT community

On 5/4/2015, at 9:32 AM, Jordan wrote:
> On 5/4/2015, at 9:29 AM, Diogo wrote:
> Nobody will be allowed to lie about this
nobody is allowed to lie about TAS

On 5/4/2015, at 9:32 AM, Jordan wrote:
> that works great

On 5/4/2015, at 9:33 AM, Jordan wrote:
> On 5/4/2015, at 9:30 AM, Diogo wrote:
> Racing ghost will tell
for most of the community, your ghosts gain as randomly as wheel does

On 5/4/2015, at 9:33 AM, Jordan wrote:
> because mk8 is so precise about boosts and stuff

On 5/4/2015, at 9:33 AM, Jordan wrote:
> it will be impossible to tell

On 5/4/2015, at 9:35 AM, Jordan wrote:
> and its very hard to tell whether you are being outlined or the stats are different

On 5/4/2015, at 9:38 AM, Jordan wrote:
> because it is impossible to tell for sure 100% just by watching/racing the ghost

On 5/4/2015, at 9:38 AM, Jordan wrote:
> look at Lytes runs

On 5/4/2015, at 9:38 AM, Jordan wrote:
> he does wheel slides without wheel lmfao

On 5/4/2015, at 9:38 AM, Jordan wrote:
> are we gonna accuse him of dpad usage?

On 5/4/2015, at 9:39 AM, Jordan wrote:
> maybe he uses dpad but is only at the level that he can keep up with us, but not totally beat us

On 5/4/2015, at 9:40 AM, Jordan wrote:
> maybe he uses wheel dpad, and if he was better, he would destroy us

On 5/4/2015, at 9:52 AM, Jordan wrote:
> if I was to try to learn dpad, it would take me at least a few weeks before I would have potential to beat my stronger prs
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« Last Edit: 05/04/15 at 08:49:17 by Diogo »  
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JACOB@MK8
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #105 - 05/04/15 at 09:02:44
 
Don't agree with Jordan. Chonko gained instantly on me on TR. It's so damn easy to notice the difference.

As for this "new metagame," yea, more people are going to try this now, but that does not erase the time gain. Whatever decision is made I won't argue against, but I'm not switching. It's not my fault I'm unable to learn what I cannot learn.

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Diogo
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #106 - 05/04/15 at 09:08:13
 
http://videogame.brando.com/wii-magic-stick_p00588c046d020.html

tell me again you can't learn
rofl

( i wont buy this btw )
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JACOB@MK8
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #107 - 05/04/15 at 09:12:02
 
Diogo wrote on 05/04/15 at 09:08:13:
http://videogame.brando.com/wii-magic-stick_p00588c046d020.html

tell me again you can't learn
rofl

( i wont buy this btw )


Haha. I had no idea that existed. That wouldn't work though. I can already tell I'm better off just learning the pad itself.
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Cole
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #108 - 05/04/15 at 10:26:12
 
Wiimote dpad is definitely better than regular non-gyro controllers on some tracks. The disadvantage with the dpad is that it has limited input possibilities so it can't do tight softdrifts or small drift adjustments. dBP is probably the easiest course to use dpad on. I think most of the other tracks will be much more challenging for players to get WRs with dpad.

I'm still open to doing separate charts, but I think we should wait a bit to see how the game progresses now that the dpad is becoming popular.

If we do add a category for controllers that don't get the Wii Wheel boost, then what would it be called? Non-Handling Boost WRs?

Anyways, I added an icon on the WR site for times done with Wiimote dpad. Are there any other WRs that used Wiimote dpad besides these?
-My dBP
-Jamie's dBP
-K4I's dCL
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Sam F
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #109 - 05/04/15 at 10:29:51
 
Cole wrote on 05/04/15 at 10:26:12:
If we do add a category for controllers that don't get the Wii Wheel boost, then what would it be called? Non-Handling Boost WRs?

Non Wii Remote WRs?
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #110 - 05/04/15 at 10:30:40
 
DPad has it's disadvantages, though. Ones that wheel does not have.
1) You lack precise control of turning/drifting.
2) Unless Nintendo changed this since the early days, softdrifting doesn't work as well.

I used to use the wheel with DPad, but when I switched to nunchuck I instantly did better, because of those two advantages. Particularly on levels with difficult soft drifts.

And (again, unless Nintendo changed it with one of the updates) wheel DPad isn't exactly the same as wheel gyro even ignoring those two points. I don't remember what the difference was, but here's the testing I did:
Test A:
-Go to the large ice part in GCN Sherbet Land, behind the finish. Or for non-slippery road go to a place like e.g. Ed after the second glider, with a high-drift/traction combo.
-Drift in a circle, with a steady turn rate. (On rSL you'll need to wait several circles before you are actually making perfect circles.)
-Pause, change controllers. If switching from game pad, you can do so by taking it out of the range of the Wii U.
-Unpause, watch the difference in turning. Look at the tire marks to see where you were before.

Test B:
-Delete a ghost.
-Play the level and hold right/left from the start.
-Finish to create the ghost, and race it with another controller.
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #111 - 05/04/15 at 10:31:58
 
&b wrote on 05/04/15 at 10:29:51:
Cole wrote on 05/04/15 at 10:26:12:
If we do add a category for controllers that don't get the Wii Wheel boost, then what would it be called? Non-Handling Boost WRs?

Non Wii Remote WRs?

The problem with that name is that you can use motion controls with the gamepad.
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ALAKTORN
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #112 - 05/04/15 at 11:19:11
 
Reminder that I learned to use WU Gamepad DPad for my DP3 WRs. We thought that thing also had an advantage over analogue stick, so are there even more advantage layers than simply Wiimote + motion and everything else? Is it three-layered?
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ALAKTORN wrote on 11/22/17 at 05:24:31:
OH YEAH WHY AM I NOT GLOATING MORE

I PINNED DOWN KF!TIMUR AFTER 10 FUCKING POSTS

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL GET FUCKED

My YouTube

MKDS: 31 GODs, 28 Myths, 5 Titans, Hold 9 NoPRB CRs, Hold 11 PRB CRs, Hold 2 NoMT WRs, Held 7 NoPRB WRs and 8 Beta WRs
MKW: Held 2 3lap WRs, many Flaps
MK7: Held a lot of WRs
MK8: Held some WRs
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Diogo
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #113 - 05/04/15 at 12:46:44
 
Cole wrote on 05/04/15 at 10:26:12:
Wiimote dpad is definitely better than regular non-gyro controllers on some tracks. The disadvantage with the dpad is that it has limited input possibilities so it can't do tight softdrifts or small drift adjustments. dBP is probably the easiest course to use dpad on. I think most of the other tracks will be much more challenging for players to get WRs with dpad.

I'm still open to doing separate charts, but I think we should wait a bit to see how the game progresses now that the dpad is becoming popular.

If we do add a category for controllers that don't get the Wii Wheel boost, then what would it be called? Non-Handling Boost WRs?

Anyways, I added an icon on the WR site for times done with Wiimote dpad. Are there any other WRs that used Wiimote dpad besides these?
-My dBP
-Jamie's dBP
-K4I's dCL



1st sentence : I've already tried DPad Wiimote on rDDD for a bit. I can tell you this is the most painful shit I've ever played,hurts more than MKDS. But I could do tight softdrifts. The key to do it is basically starting as a normal drift then hold up and right/left at the same time. Even pulled off some 39.8 lap1 missing a mt.

3rd sentence : Non-Handling boost WRs seem fine,but a little bit too long. That's just me tho,and I can't think of another name.

4th sentence : Only those are for now set with Dpad wiimote. Tho,Jager's already using DPad on MC.


As for the Gamepad DPad,it does turn tighter than Gamepad Analog,but still doesn't beat Wiimote DPad.


For the tests, the deleting ghost thing is actually the best idea,since I often delete my ghosts and it's actually helpful to pr on a track again.
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JACOB@MK8
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #114 - 05/04/15 at 13:13:20
 
How about Non-Boosted WRs? Might be unspecific, but I think everyone gets what we mean by that.

Or Stick WRs, since that's the only control method that doesn't get the handling boost.
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #115 - 05/04/15 at 15:42:58
 
“Handling” is the wrong term in the first place, it’s a Drift-stat boost. Handling is steering while not drifting.
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ALAKTORN wrote on 11/22/17 at 05:24:31:
OH YEAH WHY AM I NOT GLOATING MORE

I PINNED DOWN KF!TIMUR AFTER 10 FUCKING POSTS

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL GET FUCKED

My YouTube

MKDS: 31 GODs, 28 Myths, 5 Titans, Hold 9 NoPRB CRs, Hold 11 PRB CRs, Hold 2 NoMT WRs, Held 7 NoPRB WRs and 8 Beta WRs
MKW: Held 2 3lap WRs, many Flaps
MK7: Held a lot of WRs
MK8: Held some WRs
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #116 - 05/04/15 at 16:23:23
 
Has the MK8 community considered attempting to band together to make like a petition, etc., to try and see if Nintendo has it in their power to somehow patch MK8 to make all control schemes equal? With big enough numbers, you WILL get their attention. MKW did it with certain cheaters back in 2009 or so, the SSBM community did it when they tried to restrict streaming rights for EVO 2013. Maybe with a stroke of luck, if everyone in the community banded together, you could do the same for MK8.
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ALAKTORN
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #117 - 05/04/15 at 18:32:33
 
I get the feeling it would be pretty easy to patch away the boost, but that would invalidate pretty much all WRs and render the online charts unbeatable. As far as giving everything the boost, I wouldn’t count on it.
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ALAKTORN wrote on 11/22/17 at 05:24:31:
OH YEAH WHY AM I NOT GLOATING MORE

I PINNED DOWN KF!TIMUR AFTER 10 FUCKING POSTS

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL GET FUCKED

My YouTube

MKDS: 31 GODs, 28 Myths, 5 Titans, Hold 9 NoPRB CRs, Hold 11 PRB CRs, Hold 2 NoMT WRs, Held 7 NoPRB WRs and 8 Beta WRs
MKW: Held 2 3lap WRs, many Flaps
MK7: Held a lot of WRs
MK8: Held some WRs
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #118 - 05/04/15 at 19:41:09
 
inb4 wii u pro controller competitive edition with traction boost
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JACOB@MK8
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #119 - 05/09/15 at 14:44:01
 
So I was wondering if we do decide to make a separate category on the WR history, should we also have separate figures? Similar to what MKW once was with its "Including/Excluding No Glitch?" I think it'd be interesting and a good option to go for.
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Diogo
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #120 - 05/16/15 at 09:19:26
 
Honestly preferring gamepad wheel over Dpad right now,because of the inputs dpad has. Sometimes it just doesn't go tight,or you have to touch it alot, hate that crap.

Gamepad wheel > all

( can't use wiimote,too small )
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #121 - 05/16/15 at 22:41:47
 
So Diogo found that, apparently, the Wii U Fight Pad: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LSBNSJA/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&cr...
works with MK8 and has the same advantages as wheel/D-Pad, but with using the stick instead. You connect it to your Wiimote (like a Classic Controller).

Now the question is, does a regular GCN Controller give the same advantages? What about this controller here? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ND0E5ZU/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&cr...

^ Same type of thing, I checked out a couple of reviews and people say this one is better. But would it give the same advantages? I'm assuming yes, but it'd be nice to have confirmation.

Also, source:
http://twitter.com/SadeMKH4/status/599804655774892033
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JACOB@MK8
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #122 - 05/17/15 at 00:27:46
 
Bought the controller that Diogo says is like the wheel cheat.

I guess I won't be going away from this game then. And if that controller really is a way for stick players to get the cheat, then there is no reason to have any separate charts. There's options for all types of players now. Regardless all of this is just some crazy shit.

Diogo, you better be right man  Grin
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #123 - 05/17/15 at 05:48:09
 
Already bought the Wii Magic Stick, but I'd be willing to buy the GCN controller if it works. Wait for the pay2win complaints people. Smiley
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Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players
Reply #124 - 05/17/15 at 18:38:59
 
40pegh wrote on 05/17/15 at 00:27:46:
Bought the controller that Diogo says is like the wheel cheat.

I guess I won't be going away from this game then. And if that controller really is a way for stick players to get the cheat, then there is no reason to have any separate charts. There's options for all types of players now. Regardless all of this is just some crazy shit.

Diogo, you better be right man  Grin


It would be better if you could get it in stores rather than having to Amazon/eBay it tho Roll Eyes (I'm guessing it's one of those products made by some indie company that most "special controllers" come from that you can rarely get at your local store lol)
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