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Jumping matters (Read 302 times)
Simon
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Jumping matters
03/28/15 at 23:04:36
 
Has anyone ever checked how many times karters jump in their PR's?

I became nostalgic tonight and watched some PR videos. Comparing my DP1 Non-NBT 5-lap with Kartseven's F-lap, I was surprised to see how little she jumped, especially in the first half of the track. I remember in the past watching other karters' PR's and being alarmed at how little they jumped, thinking how lucky they got not to hit grass here or there, where I would personally never take the risk and just instinctively jump.

So I decided to actually watch DP1 Non-NBT videos from five top players and count how many jumps were in each. I wanted to watch Jamie's and Matthias' but couldn't find them on youtube. DP1 is a great track to compare because many players are at the top at a comparable level.

These are the numbers I came up with. Respectively, we have (# of jumps) / (average # of jumps per lap)

Kartseven (Alicia L'Hoëst) (14"58 F-lap & 14"77 opener):    13 & 12 / 12,5
Chraizy (Christian Wild) (14"62 F-lap):                                     21 / 21
Martin Morissette (1'13"60 5-lap):                                            73 / 14,6
Chris Balch (14"59 F-lap):                                                       10 / 10
Chris Balch (1'13"63 5-lap):                                                58 / 11,6
Simon Laflamme (1'13"58 5-lap):                                            92 / 18,4

Chraizy's jump count is boosted because of 2 crash-avoidance jumps at the end that wouldn't be there in a successful 5-lap PR, but even so that's still 19 "legit" jumps ( Wink)

So, my intuition that Kartseven jumps less is correct, but Chris Balch's jump count is even lower! In fact, the jumpiest players here jump about twice as much as the least jumpy. By the way, I'm assuming that no one jumps for aesthetical reasons. Players jump because that feels right to them.

Does this stat compilation interest anyone? I'd be curious to know which tracks are most prone or least prone to jumping (I'd guess VL2 and GV1, respectively). Ultimately, we could compare tracks by number of jumps per second. In the case of DP1, we have players who jump less than once per second and others who jump more than once per second. We could also compare PAL and NTSC and WR's with one another.

Is anyone inclined to suggest causal relationships between observed jumping behaviour and players' physical shape, personality, repressed oedipian disorder, etc? I used to think the new generation of players who grew up in a NBT environment (read: from 2004 onwards) would jump less than older generation players, but here Chris, who definitely started playing Non-NBT, jumps the least and Chris, who's known both, jumps the most. I mean... Chris Balch and Christopher Wild. Smiley

Also I can't help but wonder if my jumpy behaviour isn't the reason why I've always felt carnal love for MC3. As Gerard (I think it was him) once wrote about the MC1 3rd corner pipe, "I was made for jumping you, baby."

Edit: Found Chris Balch's 1'13"63 5-lap, so added it in the stats
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« Last Edit: 03/30/15 at 19:56:23 by Simon »  
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #1 - 03/29/15 at 02:15:47
 
Quote:
causal relationships between observed jumping behaviour and players' physical shape, personality, repressed oedipian disorder, etc?


Simon, you need to post more. I miss your awesomeness.
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #2 - 03/29/15 at 02:34:28
 
I'd like to see these stats for VL2 5-laps... Smiley
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #3 - 03/29/15 at 13:06:57
 
Thanks Dan!  Smiley

Here are the results for VL2. As you can expect on such an unforgiving track, there's much less inter-player variability than on DP1. Again, first column indicates total number of jumps and second column indicates an average per lap. I also added a third column which is the range, valid for laps 2-5 only (openers have 1 to 3 fewer jumps for everyone)

NTSC:
46"21 (Guillaume): 112 / 22,4 / 22-24
46"29 (Sami):        100 / 20 / 20-21
46"54 (Simon):      112 / 22,4 22-23
46"69 (Ha Nyan):   108 / 21,6 22-23
46"69 (Karel):        101 / 20,2 20-21

PAL:
48"09 (Guillaume): 116 / 23,2 / 22-25
48"33 (Sami):        102 / 20,4 / 20-22
48"41 (Karel):        102 / 20,4 / 20-21
48"55 (Sebastian):  102 / 20,4 / 19-22
48"93 (Alicia):         99 / 19,8 / 20-21

And some assorted single laps:
NTSC 8"59 F-lap (Guillaume):        21
NTSC 8"99 middle lap (Guillaume): 23
NTSC 9"34 opener (Guillaume): 22
PAL 8"94 F-lap strategy (Karel): 21
PAL 8"74 F-lap strategy (Sebastian): 20

Some interesting facts:
- Karel sometimes only does 1 jump around the water crack preceding the ice blocks. Everyone else does 2.
- Sami sometimes (in NTSC: always) only does 1 jump to clear the last corner. Here as well, everyone else does 2.
- All nine 5-lap PR's ended with a celebration jump at the end of final lap (pointless in most cases because the kart is not lined up with the water crack on the left)... EXCEPT Karel's PAL 5-lap. Apparently he was not satisfied with it despite being a huge-lead WR! 6 or 7 of the 5-laps were WR's at the time they were driven by the way. Mine was not but I thought it was.
- It seems 5 jumps is the way everyone tackles the first corner. Except for a few cases where the end of the turn was wide, absolutely everyone does 5 jumps there.
- Guillaume's PAL 5-lap has the most jumps (116), but his NTSC 5-lap has just a tiny bit more jumps per second (2,42 vs. 2,41). Everyone at the top of the VL2 rankings jumps more than twice per second! (in fact, I had to set the videos to half the playing speed otherwise it was too hard to count the jumps)

Edit: Found Alicia's VL2 PAL 5-lap and added it to the list
Edit 2: Added Guillaume's 8"59 F-lap WR
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« Last Edit: 04/07/15 at 19:10:12 by Simon »  
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #4 - 03/29/15 at 14:10:25
 
This is very nice information Simon, thanks!  Cheesy
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #5 - 03/29/15 at 20:23:13
 
Cheesy            
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #6 - 03/30/15 at 00:27:25
 
The choreography of high level VL2 really is a thing of beauty.  Cool
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #7 - 03/30/15 at 02:23:30
 
Just for fun I watch my DP1 PB (2007 - 42°Non-NBT with 1'18"74) and I count 83 jumps => 16,6 average Tongue
Same test for VL2 (2007 - 62°Non-NBT with a very poor time 1'01"23 Lips Sealed) : 65 jumps => 13,0 average far from the top Grin
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #8 - 03/30/15 at 06:51:12
 
I have always been very interested in those statistics for VL2 since I had the feeling that race was more a question of rhythm just like a DDR-like effort. I had already counted how much jumps I was performing in one race (and so, per second) and I found it was really crazy to press that button more than twice in one second during a ~ 47 second-long run. This makes me wanna watch Sami's run again to see why he jumps 3 times less than I do per lap in a race which is only 0"08 "slower" — it's very interesting. Same for the gap between us on the PAL side... looks I jump much more than he does.

Many thanks for those detailed investigations, Simon! Smiley
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Aron Langerak wrote on 08/06/17 at 13:47:24:
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #9 - 03/30/15 at 21:33:35
 
I'm glad you guys seem to be enjoying those numbers. Smiley And Djo, I'm sorry to say 13 jumps per lap on VL2 would just not cut it for a WR. Smiley In fact, 13 is about the number of water cracks you need to clear to get close to the WR.  Smiley In older years WR's (say 50 seconds in NTSC and 52 seconds in PAL... taking us back to 2000-2002), this number was probably closer to 7 or 8.

Okay, next up my list is BC1, Non-NBT still. It wasn't easy to find videos for this one. It doesn't look like many people are excited to boast about their BC1 Non-NBT achievements... The number in the 3rd column (range) is for laps 1-5 this time.

PAL:
1'28"69 (Alicia):       105 / 21,0 / 19-23
1'28"79 (Armin):       94 / 18,8 / 18-19
1'28"79 (Sebastian):  98 / 19,6 / 18-21
1'29"64 (Guillaume): 124 / 24,8 / 24-26
1'29"90 (Archibald):  119 / 23,8 / 22-27

NTSC:
1'26"60 (Alicia):         96 / 19,2 / 17-21
1'26"75 (Simon):       75 / 15,0 / 14-16
1'27"36 (Ha Nyan):    60 / 12,0 / 11-13

Individual laps...

PAL:
17"60 F-lap (Alicia):       17
17"64 F-lap (Sebastian): 18
17"66 F-lap (Armin):       20
17"68 F-lap (Guillaume): 24

NTSC:
17"13 F-lap (Alicia):        18
17"17 F-lap (Armin):       18
17"35 F-lap (Ha Nyan):    14

Although Guillaume can't pretend to master BC1 Non-NBT like he does VL2, he does hold the title of "master of the R button" in both tracks. Archibald jumps a lot too, but many of those jumps are done in the middle of straights. Huh I've seen everything from 1 to 5 jumps for either of the 90° corners by the way. 4 is surprisingly frequent actually, when I expected 2 or 3 to be the norm.

The strat differs on two corners between NTSC and PAL, so it's quite normal NTSC registers less jumps than PAL. One thing I found amusing on NTSC is that Alicia's least jumped lap has more jumps than my most jumped lap, whereas on DP1 the reverse was true. Smiley

While I was browsing BC1 vids, I also found Chris Balch's 5-lap for DP1 and Alicia's 5-lap for VL2 (PAL) and added them to my last posts.

Anyone has a request for what should be my next inquiry? (Non-NBT? NBT? one player in particular?) If no one suggests something, there's a good chance I'll stick to Non-NBT. Smiley
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #10 - 03/30/15 at 23:17:46
 
Would you be surprised if I asked for Rainbow Road statistics?
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Aron Langerak wrote on 08/06/17 at 13:47:24:
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #11 - 03/31/15 at 00:13:48
 
2007 vids for a mid player Tongue
BC1 Non-NBT - 1'30"96 => 96/19,2
RR Non-NBT - 1'29"70 => 95/19
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #12 - 03/31/15 at 02:18:45
 
The BC1 PAL flap statistics (less jumps equals faster times) reflects what I experienced when I last played the course. Jumping after the corner was always natural for me for straighting out. But it slows you down here. Of course the WR video is the best example for that. But this is probably old news  Smiley
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #13 - 03/31/15 at 09:58:04
 
Yeah, cool stats Simon. Smiley
I figured I didn't jump a lot. Less jumping seemed to work better for me. But I guess that explains why I never figured out VL2... I need to jump much much more!
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #14 - 04/07/15 at 19:57:01
 
Sebastian, what do you mean jumping slows you down in BC1? As far as I know jumping doesn't affect speed. Of course getting the angle right from the start of the approach is probably going to give better results than being out of synch and having to do extra jumps to countersteer, if that's what you meant?

That being said, Alicia's very 17"60 F-lap had a correction countersteer on the first 90° corner, but she did the countersteer without jumping. In fact she only jumped twice on the first corner and once on the second for that WR.

Okay, here's the count for RR. I found even fewer NTSC video than with BC1, and none of the top 3 times. I believe many of the sub-1'25 PR's are quite old already. I marked with an asterisk times that correspond to the player's current PR.

PAL:
1'26"74* (Guillaume): 101 / 20,1 / 19-21
1'26"92* (Sami):        117 / 23,4 / 22-25
1'26"96* (Alicia):       112 / 22,4 / 20-25
1'27"06* (Kalle):         91 / 18,1 / 16-21
1'27"26* (Sebastian): 122 / 24,4 / 21-28

NTSC:
1'24"84 (Karel): 118 / 23,6 / 21-26

Individual F-laps - PAL:
17"23* (Guillaume, F-lap):    20
17"25 (Sami, F-lap):           21
17"27 (Karel, F-lap):           21
17"27* (Alicia, F-lap):           23
17"49 (Guillaume, opener): 21

Individual F-laps - NTSC:
16"80* (Guillaume, F-lap):    19
16"85 (Karel, F-lap):           21
16"88* (Jamie, F-lap):          19
16"96 (Guillaume, opener):  20

Seems like Guillaume can't be the champion of the R button in every track. However he does stand out as being the most regular player, always jumping between 19 and 21 times in all nine NTSC and PAL laps represented in the list. Many players feel insecure about the "0" fork before the last turn, jumping to make sure not to fall there. The first three and the very last 90° corners are usually best tamed with 2 or 3 jumps, though for the first and last, players often do 1 or 2 additional recovery jumps to straighten out.

By the way, does anyone remember Nicolas Clementy's website from 2001? It had a section with a detailed strat page for every track and I clearly remember he suggested 3 jumps to cut the most out of every corner on RR. He had even named the 3-jump strategy after a popular triple jump olympic athlete. I swear I'm not making this up. Nicolas was #2 overall to Sami back then, and I would guess his RR 5-lap was around the low-mid 1'28" mark when he wrote that.
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #15 - 04/08/15 at 03:45:11
 
He Simon, do you also count a flatboost as a jump? Mario is also king of the L-button as a matter of fact Smiley
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #16 - 04/08/15 at 07:48:31
 
Aron, I've only focused on Non-NBT PR's so far. So no flatboost in the videos I watched.  Smiley
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Re: Jumping matters
Reply #17 - 04/12/15 at 02:43:35
 
Simon wrote on 04/07/15 at 19:57:01:
Sebastian, what do you mean jumping slows you down in BC1? As far as I know jumping doesn't affect speed. Of course getting the angle right from the start of the approach is probably going to give better results than being out of synch and having to do extra jumps to countersteer, if that's what you meant?

That being said, Alicia's very 17"60 F-lap had a correctioncountersteer on the first 90° corner, but she did the countersteer without jumping. In fact she only jumped twice on the first corner and once on the second for that WR.


I didnt see any influence in jumping once or twice before a corner as I didnt play the course that much. But I was faster than my ghost whenever I stopped jumping after the 90° corner. Even countersteering as much as Pierre did in th first corner is better than jumping for straigning out.
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