Mario Kart MB - WR history

Sam F Ex Member	Re: WR history Reply #275 - 01/09/16 at 01:33:27 Just noticed that JWhalls RRd No-SC flap has a duration of -10 days. Could this be fixed somehow? :/
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PLH King Offline Patrick Hewson 6850 days karting London, UK Gender:	Re: WR history Reply #276 - 01/09/16 at 02:18:58 &b wrote on 01/09/16 at 01:33:27: Just noticed that JWhalls RRd No-SC flap has a duration of -10 days. Could this be fixed somehow? :/ Not unless someone can find the date he actually drove it.
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Re: WR history
Reply #277 - 01/09/16 at 17:09:53

There's a total of 17 times with negative durations currently. I think I can eliminate a couple though.

Booth's 49"92 TT Non-SC flap, done on 1998-09-30.
Penev had 49"90 done on 1998-09-13.
There's a snapshot of Booth's times on 1998-09-18 that lists his current PR at 49"95. Thus, I think it's safe to say that it was never a WR.

Booth's 1'46"70 KD Non-SC 3lap, done on 1998-09-30.
Penev had 1'46"64 on 1998-09-13.
Booth's 1998-09-18 snapshot lists his PR at 1'46"83. Also pretty certainly never a WR.

Booth's 2'31"76 TT Non-SC 3lap, done on 1998-09-30.
Penev had 2'31"70 on 1998-09-13.
Booth's 1998-09-18 snapshot lists his PR at 2'31"98. Also unlikely to ever have been a WR.

I jotted down the info on these times in a spreadsheet in case new info comes to light, although that seems improbable.

That brings the total number down to 14 Wink

I'm sure there's more that can be eliminated, too!

Also, could we implement a Source link category for the editing version of the site? Similar to the F-Zero version (http://www.fzerowrs.tk/x/display.php?track=Mute+City), but with hyperlinks. It would be really helpful.

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« Last Edit: 01/09/16 at 18:06:36 by WillD »

WR History Updater | Former rDDD WR
AlexPenev wrote on 08/08/12 at 03:51:30:

Did you try doing a mini turbo? That could change everything.

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Re: WR history
Reply #278 - 01/12/16 at 09:28:40

Greg_I wrote on 01/07/16 at 05:03:10:

Penev's email certainly bebunks the "typo" theory, and I'm not sure what to think now. We know it's possible, probably even on the first lap, it was just ridiculously strong for the era, and more than likely didn't include the strat of sliding up the bump where the shortcut is either.

Would be great if we had the Penev's view about it. We are still waiting. Smiley

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Re: WR history
Reply #279 - 01/12/16 at 14:50:37

Zurreco wrote on 01/12/16 at 09:28:40:

Greg_I wrote on 01/07/16 at 05:03:10:

Penev's email certainly bebunks the "typo" theory, and I'm not sure what to think now. We know it's possible, probably even on the first lap, it was just ridiculously strong for the era, and more than likely didn't include the strat of sliding up the bump where the shortcut is either.

Would be great if we had the Penev's view about it. We are still waiting. Smiley

Doubt there's anything that he can say that would shed any more light on it. He almost certainly has no recollection of driving the time. It was 17 years ago after all!

For me reading the original e-mail has removed quite a lot of the mystery surrounding the time, and I now believe it was true. But not even the man himself can check since it won't be on his cartridge!

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Re: WR history
Reply #280 - 01/12/16 at 16:27:59

PLH wrote on 01/12/16 at 14:50:37:

Zurreco wrote on 01/12/16 at 09:28:40:

Greg_I wrote on 01/07/16 at 05:03:10:

Penev's email certainly bebunks the "typo" theory, and I'm not sure what to think now. We know it's possible, probably even on the first lap, it was just ridiculously strong for the era, and more than likely didn't include the strat of sliding up the bump where the shortcut is either.

Would be great if we had the Penev's view about it. We are still waiting. Smiley

Doubt there's anything that he can say that would shed any more light on it. He almost certainly has no recollection of driving the time. It was 17 years ago after all!

For me reading the original e-mail has removed quite a lot of the mystery surrounding the time, and I now believe it was true. But not even the man himself can check since it won't be on his cartridge!

You believe it was true? There is no way someone was capable of driving 38"29 CM flap on lap 1 in 1999. I doubt anyone would be able to do it today, even Matthias.

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Re: WR history
Reply #281 - 01/12/16 at 16:33:59

DansGame wrote on 01/12/16 at 16:27:59:

PLH wrote on 01/12/16 at 14:50:37:

Zurreco wrote on 01/12/16 at 09:28:40:

Greg_I wrote on 01/07/16 at 05:03:10:

Penev's email certainly bebunks the "typo" theory, and I'm not sure what to think now. We know it's possible, probably even on the first lap, it was just ridiculously strong for the era, and more than likely didn't include the strat of sliding up the bump where the shortcut is either.

Would be great if we had the Penev's view about it. We are still waiting. Smiley

Doubt there's anything that he can say that would shed any more light on it. He almost certainly has no recollection of driving the time. It was 17 years ago after all!

For me reading the original e-mail has removed quite a lot of the mystery surrounding the time, and I now believe it was true. But not even the man himself can check since it won't be on his cartridge!

You believe it was true? There is no way someone was capable of driving 38"29 CM flap on lap 1 in 1999. I doubt anyone would be able to do it today, even Matthias.

I think Matthias could definitely do it if he tried, the difference between lap 1 & lap 2 on CM is only about .05-.06 due to the handily placed startboost which gives you an extra shroom to use somewhere else. I would love to see him try though.

I don't believe that Penev would have intentionally lied about his times, and from reading the e-mail it seems unlikely that he made a mistake with the time, so I'm not sure what other possible conclusion that leaves...

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DansGame Legend Online I Love Mark 2.0! 3358 holabolas	Re: WR history Reply #282 - 01/12/16 at 16:36:01 The difference between laps 1 and 2 on CM flap is more than .1. There are only 3 good shroomspots to use on CM flap, after that they are way worse, which makes the flap much better to do on lap 2 here.
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Re: WR history
Reply #283 - 01/12/16 at 16:48:29

It depends on how well you do the extra shroom, I'm pretty sure the spot Penev used was the corner after the tunnel. It's a tough spot to get right, but it's possible to get it to really hug the corner tightly (like the 2nd corner shroom done well, but harder to pull off). If you do it right you can really gain time. From reading Penev's e-mail, it seems like the key to his time was nailing that shroom...

Quote:

Alex Penev <spenev(at)yahoo(dot)com>
To KevinBoo69(at)aol(dot) com This_Is_Rex(at)hotmail(dot)com rt1183(at)aol.com JWhalls(at)webtv(dot)net cocc(at)videotron(dot)qc(dot)ca Moo1517(at)aol(dot)com 06/27/99 at 4:10 PM
CM lap YOSHI
38'29* -> 31'91* [god!]

I got a nice ghost (-> 32'3?) for the lap. Then, racing this ghost it seemed the first part of the race was near perfect!

I never did lead him ... a few times I was right next to him, and a few right behind, but no PR laps happening. Dang, this is not an easy PR to beat =(

At one stage it was neck and neck again. Up to the 2nd shroom you couldn't tell which was the ghost =). Then I decided to risk it a bit more and coasted this shroom real real hard.

Lucky paid off. Bounced up the hill and still continued the slide. Good, now I was ahead (just), for once. Next part went great - built another kartlenght lead on the ghost. Now the discriminant ... passed the boulder corner pretty damn good. Built another kartlenght lead. The 3rd shroom added another (geez, this is looking good)! Next ... Good! No bounce on the bumps ... seemed he did though, cos he was then off the screen.

And there it was. Certainly better then I expected or thought I would get. That was some pretty awesome racing!

But seeing as it was over 3 days I've kinda got over it, and am less exited now. 2nd God time!!!! ... in the same course ... looks like I copied Peter's KD efforts =)

[/quote]

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Re: WR history
Reply #284 - 01/12/16 at 16:56:29

Quite a few top players have tried doing CM flap on lap 1. The best any of us was able to do (until now at least) is 38"47/31"99. Trust me when I say we've tried taking that shroom as tight as possible. There really is not that much time to gain from it. The "bouncing over the hill" thing seems ridiculous as you crash or slow down pretty much any time you ever hit that hill. I honestly don't really care if the time stays or not since it's not a current WR or anything and I have nothing against Penev (don't really know him at all) but I don't believe this time for one minute. The only way it's possible he drove it is if he figured out some new way of shrooming, which would be REALLY hard to believe since nothing has ever been replicated in the years since. And even though the time is almost 17 years old, I would hope someone would be able to answer questions about a strat that they found (if it's true, which it isn't). For that matter, I don't believe Zwartjes's time either. No way that time was driven when the prior WR was .41 slower at LR 3lap.

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Re: WR history
Reply #285 - 01/12/16 at 17:06:15

I believe Michael Fried tested it and concluded the difference was about .05, and he tends to know about these things. Ask him bout it if you want. I'm sure a top player could get better than 38"47 if they really tried. No way is the difference .35!

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about Penev's time. I can't be 100% certain but I think it's more likely than not that it was real. But Since Penev had sc times on his cartridge he can't even check himself, so we'll never know for certain.

But I'll leave you with a hypothetical question. Imagine Troy Ullman hadn't made a vid of his CM 3lap 1'36"68 in 2005. Would you believe it was real? I believe the second placed time at that point was 1'37"30 or thereabouts, so it's at least as insane a cut as Penev or Zwartjes' LR. It's a funny course CM. A lot of people don't like it, but some really have a knack for it...

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Re: WR history
Reply #286 - 01/12/16 at 17:20:19

does it even matter? .05 would mean someone who is 33rd was driving within .1 of the current matthias-driven wr in 1999. i don't think how far ahead of the previous wr a time was when it was driven is good evidence that a time isn't real. i think what we have here is a much better understanding of the game 16 years later that makes this time seem like the biggest anomaly in the game if true. my personal knowledge is not enough to say i'm sure the time is fake, but when several people in the top 5-10 are so positive it is...i don't know i find it pretty annoying considering i actively play this game and i'm ranked behind penev on both charts

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Etch wrote on 03/17/15 at 10:53:56:

Get shitfaced and sober up for another day of work, just like everyday.

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Re: WR history
Reply #287 - 01/12/16 at 18:13:29

PLH wrote on 01/12/16 at 17:06:15:

I believe Michael Fried tested it and concluded the difference was about .05, and he tends to know about these things. Ask him bout it if you want. I'm sure a top player could get better than 38"47 if they really tried. No way is the difference .35!

.05 was just my estimate, but I never properly tested it. It would save approximately .18 - (time saved by 4th best shroomspot) but I'm not sure how much time that shroomspot saves.

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DansGame Legend Online I Love Mark 2.0! helped 3358 people	Re: WR history Reply #288 - 01/12/16 at 18:50:35 I have really tried and in the same amount of time it takes me to get a low 38"3x or high 2x 2nd lap I could only do 38"50 as my best (I tried this several months ago). Pretty sure the difference is .15 or so.
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Re: WR history
Reply #289 - 01/13/16 at 03:56:43

Zurreco wrote on 01/12/16 at 09:28:40:

Would be great if we had the Penev's view about it. We are still waiting.

Emotional view: nice to see strangers defend it and understandable for friends to doubt it.

Practical view: I don't have a video of it and that's not satisfactory. A one-in-a-many-thousands run should happen once every many thousand runs, by definition, yet I would also be doubtful and unsatisfied if it's not recorded and reproduced. If it were me with the pitchfork and you with the crazy claims, I'd be bashing you over the head, demanding why you don't recognise the rarity of your work, why you don't have those videos on-demand, badmouth you to others in secret, hold long term resentful grudges, etc etc. I think that would be a normal reaction and I've done that myself many times.

Regarding Greg's comment about "sliding up the bump where the shortcut is", if it's the bump before the boulder stretch then I'm pretty sure I've never slid up it unless doing the shortcut.

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Skid King Offline 5541 days karting Bad Friedrichshall	Re: WR history Reply #290 - 01/13/16 at 04:11:23 well i don't know if anybody cares but my best lap 1 attempt on CM was 38''39 (i did it in 2012 when my PR was 38''25), shrooming on the 2nd corner, after the 180° lefthand turn and over the hills at the end. And i'm sure you can get at least 38''2x and probably 38''1x on lap 1 if you're really good.
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Zurreco Karter Offline 3700 days karting	Re: WR history Reply #291 - 01/13/16 at 14:11:00 Without so much optimization, did a lap1 TAS for fun, beating only by ~~.02~~ .03. That 31"84 is strong dude
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Greg_I King Offline 7818 days karting	Re: WR history Reply #292 - 01/13/16 at 14:33:33 That's also with the slide up the bump that Penev didn't do. I have no idea how much it saves, but I'm pretty sure it's more than 0.02.
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DansGame Legend Online I Love Mark 2.0! 3358 sex records	Re: WR history Reply #293 - 01/13/16 at 14:50:56 It's also with riding the hill slope down after the 1st shroom of the lap which doesn't happen on a normal run.
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Zurreco Karter Offline hit 3700 moles	Re: WR history Reply #294 - 01/13/16 at 14:58:23 hey dan, still hiding FS strats? Like I said not much optimization, did in around one hour and half. But I think my TAS shows that 31"84 is ridiculously strong because it doesn't have obvious errors and uses slide in the hill (wonder how much that saves) and even then barely beat it.
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Jonesy Offline 7999 ninjas slain California Gender:	Re: WR history Reply #295 - 01/13/16 at 15:01:37 30 min? I'm not sure if that says more about the strength of the TAS or the strength of Penev's time.
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DansGame Legend Online I Love Mark 2.0! 3358 holabolas	Re: WR history Reply #296 - 01/13/16 at 15:02:17 Hiding FS strats? I hope you're kidding I've gone into more detail about FS to people than on any other track at this point.
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Zurreco Karter Offline hit 3700 moles	Re: WR history Reply #297 - 01/13/16 at 15:04:59 DansGame wrote on 01/13/16 at 15:02:17: Hiding FS strats? I hope you're kidding I've gone into more detail about FS to people than on any other track at this point. It does not seem. You refuse to give some feedback about my FS flap TAS.
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Jonesy Offline 7999 ninjas slain California Gender:	Re: WR history Reply #298 - 01/13/16 at 15:13:27 Zurreco, how feasible would it be to reuse as much of this TAS as possible on lap 2 so that we can get a comparison between lap 1 and lap 2 times? That is to say use this TAS as a basis for a flap 2 TAS.
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Re: WR history
Reply #299 - 01/13/16 at 15:28:49

Zurreco wrote on 01/13/16 at 15:04:59:

DansGame wrote on 01/13/16 at 15:02:17:

Hiding FS strats? I hope you're kidding I've gone into more detail about FS to people than on any other track at this point.

It does not seem. You refuse to give some feedback about my FS flap TAS.

I've gone into detail plenty of times in this forum and in messages/twitch help to plenty of people. But as for giving specific advice to you:
Zurreco wrote on 01/06/16 at 08:00:01:

Wow Abney, you KICKED Dan's ass so hard and fast! Smiley

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