[The Gaff's style on] Discuss. [/The Gaff's style off]

Is the discussion finally in English then?  

Yeah, that's probably a wise idea. Looks like Djo really spent a lot of effort in creating a balanced set-up.

Antistar wrote on 01/28/14 at 03:53:10:


...because the views of those not likely to win anything aren't important?

Just had a look through this on the French board and if I'm reading it right I personally think it's a terrible idea. I really enjoy playing players of all skill levels and looking at the simulations it would mean that I would possibly not play any of the top players in any of the modes (given where I'm likely to be ranked), the thought of playing the same bunch of players the majority of each of the days sounds awful to me. One of the best things about cdm for me is getting to meet/play with pretty much everyone there over the course of the event. But then again I might have misread.

Very nice video man!

Antistar wrote on 01/29/14 at 01:58:46:


I will but it would help if someone posted (or sent a pm) a quick summary of it in English as there are lots of pages of info and my understanding of your beautiful language isn't what it should be and I fear that I may not fully understand the new system proposed.

Antistar wrote on 01/29/14 at 01:58:46:


To be honest im not a huge fan of the Belgian system either. Or double elimination brackets if that applies.

If we are all travelling there from far away we want to be able to play vs everybody we can. Leyla also said a while back she enjoyed competing vs a variety, some of the top champions, strong contenders, intermediates and so on. We can all learn and grow that way in the game.

The system is mainly being looked at to save time if we have a huge surge of players this year. I have been asking around a lot and have had no reply from the Swedish, i havent chased up the Italians yet (Mario86 weren't you in conversation with Nicola?), and a guy in Spain said it is near to the World Cup matches so he needs to stay at home. I told him to stuff the World Cup, cos there is another one he can watch in 2018 and football is on every bloody day on tv anyway. Kicking a round piece of leather into a rectangular netty thing. Boring. As for the UK guys, including myself we may be 5-6 so far, hoping to collect a few more. But unless there is a massive growth in France or from other countries we may land up with similar numbers to before or up to 50.

In which case we may aswell use the old system again and just tidy it up a bit where there were issues before (like all that handpicking nonsense that we had to move people unfairly around the brackets to stop a bigger problem on the database. Like Karel landing up on same side of the bracket as Flo and I on Match Race but as early as a Quarter Final (who also probably shouldn't have been on the same side). Anyway we'll leave that up to the experts with coding and excel skills.

The main simple solution is be a little less lazy in the morning, get up from our tents just a little earlier, eat, then start the poules earlier than usual and youl be surprised how quickly they can get done in the afternoon. We'll still be able to hit the Top 16 round early before the evening meal...

Just as a first note: maybe this discussion ought to be moved to a different thread as not to pollute the topic on Flo's 2013 vid.

I think people need to decide whether they want the CDM to be an entertainment/exhibition-style event where every player mixes indiscriminately with opponents of all skill levels, or if they want CDM to be a platform where we determine a somewhat accurate pecking-order for each of the modes.

The advantage of the entertainment system is a less goal oriented and therefore (likely) more casual atmosphere plus the enjoyment of having many goes at beating a 'pro' during the day. But contrary to Mario, I don't think this current system works well at all. It certainly does a good job at enjoyment, but aside from determining a winner it does a horrible job at determining an accurate pecking order for each mode.

With the normal system, ~80% of the group stage matches can be determined beforehand with 95-99% accuracy. I'm talking about Sami vs Leyla, Harold vs Graf, Flo vs Baly, etc. No offense, but the quantity of those matches feels like a big waste of time (not something worth spending a week of holiday and traveling expenses for). Daigo & co wouldn't find it acceptable that they'd have to spend over 50% of their playing time at EVO slaughtering the lesser Street Fighter Gods, only to be insta knocked out by a big-shot as soon as the knock-out stage commences. And all that because the tournament set-up didn't allow for an elaborate KO stage.

The advantage of a more goal oriented CDM would be that there will be far more matches where the result is hard to predict. Instead of having many exhibition / 'beat the pro' type matches, there is more time dedicated to determine who is #2,3,4,5,6 (in a somewhat reasonable order), which I feel is more important if we want to continue calling this a World Championship*. Another obvious benefit of a more goal oriented system is that the viewers (stream audience) get to see more close matches between players of comparable lvls (top vs top, mid-tier vs mid-tier, noob vs noob).



*A World Championship with the expressed intent of resulting in a merged overall ranking.

KVD wrote on 01/29/14 at 05:06:01:


QIA

And yes, let's just have another thread to discuss the rules please (I'll create one right away).

Here is a quick projection about who you might face if we have a big field of 52 players.

Zarkov wrote on 01/29/14 at 07:16:04:


The percentage of chances you have to play that person, yes (with ## meaning 100%).

Here is a specific scenario that Djo (Geoffrey Ewbank, the guy who is working to improve this system for months/years) made. It's only an example of what can happen, but it looks more 'real' than just percentages.

Results:


Order of the matches played:

MD_Neo wrote on 01/29/14 at 07:09:06:


That's only really true though for the first 4 rounds which are going to be heavily affected by the random nature of the first round draw. For players outside of the top 16 the chances of you playing a match against one of the top players is very, very small after round 4.

For example in the above simulation, after round 4 we have:
Scoub plays nobody outside top 16
Sami plays nobody outside top 16
Neo plays nobody outside top 16
Harold plays 1 person outside top 16
Geo plays 2 people outside top 16
Mario plays nobody outside top 16
Karel plays 2 people outside top 16
Drew plays 2 people outside top 16

I can understand why some of the top players may want to only play other top players but remember this is a tournament for all and many of the none "top" players like playing players of all skill levels (as it would seem do some of the top players). So whilst I can understand in part, but personally don't like the new system at all, I think that if a system like this were to be used that it should have some extra variance added to it to increase the frequency of matches between differing skill levels more.

If however the aim of this is too keep players of differing abilities separated (which for the most part this set up would do) then why not just deny entry to anyone you don't think to be good enough (or are 30+ players needed to cover the expenses for the room?) or have separate A/B/C tournaments (on the first day the top 4 or 5 players could maybe play a few games against the lower players, those they think outside the top 10 to see what tournament would be best suited to them please note sarcastic tone, not a real suggestion).

Which still happens with the set-up Djo suggests, but to a more balanced extent which makes more sense. 2 or 3 very unbalanced match-ups are ok (and can indeed be very funny!), but I start scratching my head at encounter #10 of such nature (with the limited time at our disposal).

Full seperation is not cool, but zero seperation is also not cool. This is a balanced compromise.