vid anyone ?

ALAKTORN wrote on 01/13/12 at 09:37:44:


This.

Husky sums up my pov

To be honest I'm not sure why this is considered as a SC-worthy thing. It's literally no different than driving through the train on KD in MK64.

Why doesn't someone try driving through some legs nearer the front of a wiggler and stopping right in the middle. If you get knocked out or dragged along, there is probably an intentional narrow gap between the legs. If the wiggler just runs straight through you then it's probably a glitch.

Also worth noting that although the wigglers bend around whilst they run, the hitbox might be a rigid rectangle shape. It'd explain why you appear to drive through a leg whilst taking the shortcut, if there are narrow gaps between the legs.

Please, a definitive decision... I'd like to try this fucking glitch, but if it got forbidden, then it would be shit to have a glitch ghost  

Decisions are obviously not definitive if nobody takes them.

I've just re-read everything. The argumentation presented in this thread is relatively poor so far but I think Alaktorn and Mark nailed the core of the problem...

I see "Yes" is now winning the poll by a lot, which is surprising to me considering the general hate these kind of bugs engendered in MKWii, but now I think I see why, and since you like comparison I'll make up another one.

Imagine that tomorrow, somehow, someone managed to find a trick on MKWii enabling him to go through cars on MH, making it possible to beat the WR. If the same than the one asked in the thread was posed here, I'm pretty sure "No" would win by a huge majority, since going through cars is clearly established as unnatural. The reason "Yes" in winning here is because going between legs sounds natural, even if it looks like you're hitting some sort of walls.

This led me to try playing MT again for some testing (and PR'ing, but that's not the topic...)

Husky wrote on 01/13/12 at 21:25:36:

I did the same as you and got the same results. Could never make it past the wiggler with or without mt's. However I managed it a few times using mushrooms but with a short slowdown and only going THROUGH the legs and never inbetween, which in the cases I have witnessed classify it as a glitch.

There are probably some instances when you can go through. This said the situation here is very comparable to the DKJP SC on MKWii when you can make it very occasionaly over the barrier but most of the time you're going through. Even if you don't go through it is still considered as SC/glitch.

ALAKTORN wrote on 01/17/12 at 12:29:53:


The other way around is a much safer solution actually.
If we let it banned for now we have still the possibility to allow it later without large consequences on the rankings.
If we decide to allow it then later ban it we would have to REMOVE times on the rankings which is much more problematic, especially if the players became unactive since that time. In fact this is the main reason the AF chart on MKWii remained glitched : it was not possible to come back to no-glitch since several players had only submitted glitched PR's and didn't have no-glitch times. The right decision came too late. I don't think we want this to happen again even if our case is much less significant...

...In fact, to tell the truth, it is likely not significant at all. I am now 90% convinced that the fastets known time doesn't use this bug. From my testings skipping the shortcut at the beginning to use your shroom to pass the wiggler should be slower enough to the point of making sub 46 laps way too hard.
I wish the japs would make more videos, but for now the best thing I can do to prove myself right would be... to defeat him.



TL;DR, I am still leaning to the safest solution which would be to ban temporarely this bug. However you're still free to make records using it. In fact if I let other people mess out with the bug to see it's exact nature and if it has real benefits in time trial it would be very helpful !

I don't like your analogy, Mick. It's completely hypothetical and based on total speculation about what you guess people might say about a different game. There's no saying what all might be involved in that situation to make people vote either way.

The KD train in MK64 involves what has actually happened. People go through the train and it is allowed. There's no speculation there. Also a different game, but at least it's fact.

I do like what you've said about making a decision soon, as making decisions late can harm the ranks. I think no matter which decision is made, if it's made late, too much harm will be done. Either having to remove times later or telling people that their SRs are now obsolete because we now allow something that was previously banned... both of those situations should be unacceptable.

Michele, I like your interest in taking time to make the best decision, but I think even if it is the best decision made too late, it may be worse than making the wrong decision early. At least everyone will be playing by the same rules.

----

I've only experimented with this a small amount. I've tried driving through it regularly (no boost), and confirmed what others have already said. It seems to be impossible that way.

I've tried shrooming through it twice in Grand Prix (two laps in the same run) and I succeeded both times. Twice isn't much, but it's what I've got. I just unlocked Slick tires so I'd rather be filling my timesheet now.


Here's to hoping this junk never matters  

Btw, just to ask the people who tested this after seeing the thread, what combo did you use? As you can see, I used blue seven and red monsters, and pulled it off by accident both times when hitting the wiggler when tt'ing MT much sooner after release when I had bad control, but if it is much much harder to do with the fastest WR combo, then that is probably an argument against.
Good to see Mick summarising it - not sure how many of the people who voted Yes have seen the Mkwii pp progressing into glitches, but I certainly don't want something like this happening again here.

Mick wrote on 01/17/12 at 17:42:05:


These two paragraphs are important. As for driving through cars on MH, then clearly that's a glitch. The big question is  with the wiggler itself. If you drive through the legs, then it is indeed a glitch and should be banned, regardless of time saved. If you drive in between two legs or sets of legs, then it's just a trick that looks cool and saves time.

A lot of people bring up KD train on MK64. You don't actually go through the train, there's a small gap in between each of the train cars that you can drive through. Not sure if Nintendo really wanted that or not though.

And Mick, as for rDKJP, even if you jump over the wall instead of through it, it's still a SC. Jumping  over walls has always been considered a SC.

I know earlier I said I was  for this being allowed, but if you actually go through the legs instead of in between the legs, then that should be considered a glitch because you break a physical boundary. Should be banned for now until you guys can come up with a certain conclusion.

I still think this must be banned, but somehow, agreeing with Mick, I'm now doubting that WR from the jap has this glitch in...

Robertvz wrote on 01/18/12 at 17:58:16:


That's not true or else bc1 would be considered SC and jumping over the walls there is the easiest thing ever.