Why has there been so much less emphasis on flaps in the recent Karts? WHY?

Luckily for me though, I cashed in on this in MKW by being able to get top 100 times in a game I really sucked at, because I played for flaps so much.

It's understandable though since the games themselves don't seem to be caring about flaps anymore (MKW wouldn't let you view them unless you completed a race, and then if you PRed only your flap it would play the failure music)... yet, flaps have been just as much a part of Kart as 3laps have, just like Luigi is also a Super Mario Brother    (poor analogy, but you get my point)
But yeah, flaps have basically become the "Side B" of the single.

In SMK and MK64 many of my flaps are lower ranked than the 3laps/5laps were because the old schoolers among us actually gave a rat's ass about laps.

Flaps present challenges in themselves, especially in post-SMK games since you get shrooms, and each one must be used optimally. It's also good for players who hate 3laps if they're always choking on that last lap, but of course 3laps are meant to be the real challenge of the game anyway.

Keep the flap charts please, although like in MKW I expect there'll be only half the players as opposed to the 3lap tables. (On the other hand, this has the unintentional benefit of giving more "weight" to 3laps in calculating a player's AF, as there are more people to pass-- more AF to gain-- when improving 3laps! And that's surely how Nintendo would have wanted it!)

In short: there should be flap charts so that players who do care about them (like myself) have something to show for it, while all the players who don't care... are giving the 3lap the greater AF significance that it probably should have. It's a win-win, all because of half of the players not giving any thought to flaps.  

^ But we really need full f-lap charts like all of the previous six MKs, and for it to count towards AF also (though how much all depends on the level of participation, see MKW charts)

Why so little love for f-laps now?  

hahaae wrote on 12/11/11 at 21:08:12:

^Basically this.

Nick, we're not leaving them out because no one cares about flaps; it's because requiring them for AF would be pretty much openly inviting everyone to lie, and it would be very difficult to catch someone who did so subtly enough. Imagine Fenner x 100; that's basically what you'd end up with after a while.

I'm not arguing against the possibility of tracking flaps; I just think that they would prove onerous to most players wanting to join the site's AF ranks and greatly tempt them to take a shortcut.

Imagine, if you will, a Mr. Kenneth Smith. Mr. Smith has already played Time Trials and unlocked all the staff ghosts when he first hears about the Players' Page. He checks out the site and decides he wants to join, but then he finds out that he needs to have flap times to get a proper ranking. Naturally, since the game doesn't record flaps, he hasn't paid any serious attention to them and has no recollection of what his fastest laps might be. Now what can he do? Well, Ken has only a few options:

1. Just submit course times and don't get a spot on the full AF rankings at all.
2. Go play every single course over again to set new flap times, which may not even be as fast as his best splits prior to that, depending on the course.
3. Make up times--specifically, in one of two ways:
  a. Divide all course times by 3 and round down to get the maximum possible lap times, which will definitely be slower than his real records.
  b. Make up new believable flap times to go with his course times so he can get his "proper" AF ranking immediately.

Who wants to bet that a lot of Kenny Smiths in the world would pick option 3b a la Terrence Fenner?
The worst part of it is, we would have no way of catching most of these cheaters, particularly the ones with low or middling ranks that no one pays attention to. The MK7 site would become a laughingstock, known as "That site with all the fake times."

I'm sorry, but I really don't see how imposing flaps on everyone would end well...

Harvey Kartel wrote on 12/12/11 at 00:46:08:

Did you not see the Maka Wuhu topic? It already has a big timesaving glitch and a little one.

Harvey Kartel wrote on 12/12/11 at 00:46:08:

You don't seem to get the point here.
Many of the existing players here wouldn't mind making flaps and submittingly them legitimately, including yourself, but many new players (and some older untrusted ones) will not abide to the rules of trust.
Mr.L laid out the situation pretty well, I suggest you read it again.

MKW Flaps are saved by the game, allowing pictures to be taken at a later date. This is important because it also allows us to ask for soft proof at any time. With MK7, though, if you don't take a picture or video right away, you'll never get another chance. So if a player submits some flaps without taking a picture or video and we want to see some proof of the times, it's already too late. They could be lying or they could be honestly forgetful, but either way, we'll never see proof of those actual times. (The only exception would be if the flaps were part of a 3-lap PR, but since [as far as I know] MK7 doesn't allow multiple licenses, that rather clumsy method isn't going to work for most players.)

Harvey Kartel wrote on 12/12/11 at 14:48:19:


Come on, Nick. Get with the program.  

Two thoughts:

1.  Could the site by default set flap times for each course equal to (total race time / 3), with the option of the karter providing a non-default flap time if he/she has one recorded?  Anybody with non-default flap times would be *required* to have soft proof of their times.

This would allow the casual karter to submit a full set of times without having kept track of flaps, while also allowing hardcore karters to compete for flap times.  Flap times set by default race averages could be specially annotated to distinguish them from "real" flap times.

2.   Part of the trouble of keeping track of flap times, and proving flap records, could be addressed by simply having a second copy of MK7.  I've done this in the past for MKDS and MKSC, because I wanted to have ghosts for my flap runs, but of course these games keep ghosts from only the best race runs.  I mean, having a flap-dedicated MK7 cartridge wouldn't be a *requirement* but for folks that wanted to go hardcore, it would be a way to have video proof.

My personal feeling is that Nintendo doesn't necessarily hate flaps in general, but that some elements of the MK7 game (the two Pilotwings tracks + the coin mechanic) don't lend themselves to flap records, and for simplicity's sake, Nintendo took them out.  At least, I hope that is the reason-- I really like flaps, and it would hate to see them disappear forever from Mario Kart