Michael F wrote on 12/02/11 at 13:00:13:


I didn't say that people has to prove every flap.

Ofc, I'm speaking about WR's case. It's not a matter of trust. You have to prove every Flap WR with a pic or a video. If you don't have the material to do it. Then, you can't prove your WR flap.

Problem is Fried, in mkds, the times are still saved within the cartridge and can be used as at least some kind of proof when called upon.  So if someone completely bluffs a full set of flap times in mkds, when they are called to take pictures of their alleged times they will be unable to do so and thus proven a cheat.  Now here in mk7 people can just make up those times and have no way to be proven false.





(I'm talking about non-WRs here basically, since almost all wr's in any game are expected to be proven in some way more than just a picture)

Michael F wrote on 12/02/11 at 13:12:09:

The fact that flaps get saved in MKDS is relevant. Picture proof at least means that the player may have gotten the time, but it would be unknown if the player cheated with AR or something. At the least, you know that the person had gotten a certain time, and could prove that the time was gotten in the future.

While with MK7, since the flaps are not saved, it would be impossible to get any form of proof save a picture of the splits at the end or a video of the flap. This would require a person to have a camera on their person when they completed the run. Because we can not access a saved flap time in the future, the flap time becomes impossible to prove true or false unless the run happened to be a PR as well.

One thing I would like to have in MK7 is multiple licenses like in MKW, as you could seperate your 3lap and flap TTs that way without losing ghosts.

Easiest thing is to just have the 3lap-only and complete AF charts like mkw.

The flap records are noteworthy and it would be a shame to not have them listed somewhere.

Like others have said, create a 3lap and flap chart and a 3lap only chart.

DJT wrote on 12/02/11 at 16:23:52:


It didn't work in mkwii, why would it work here?

Chuck Foster wrote on 12/02/11 at 12:15:17:


That's a matter of perspective IMO.  Some may think that options 1 and 2 are both saying "no" because the AF won't be affected by flaps either way.  The way I see it, options 2 and 3 are both saying "yes" because flaps would be listed on the site either way.  Adding votes would make the results inaccurate.

Re: Should FLaps be included in the charts:

They should be in the charts as a "for fun" component on the site. They should not directly affect the AF rankings. Many of the reasons have already been brought up: problems with cheaters and unrecoverable proof, confusion, turn-off to potential new members, etc.

I think on the players' profiles, the course times should get there own block:

___________

Course Times

___________

And fast laps should go below them (like SC on MK64):

___________

Flap Times

___________

So, people can submit times for fun, but the flap times shouldn't even count towards the main AF and shouldn't be mentioned at all in the news updates. If they aren't mentioned in the news or contribute to AF, then the motive to cheat will not exist, or at least will be greatly reduced. Also, new players can feel welcomed by the easy format to join the page, and see the flaps as a kind of thing to "explore".

So, flaps can still be a part of the site, but not in the traditional fashion with this idea. It would treat as the main ranking what times the game itself records, and those from the earlier karts who might still like to compete in flaps can do so at their leisure.

I would really like flaps to be somewhere.

I didn't really get into mkwii, so I don't know how flaps were handled on that site and what you guys learned from it. So I defer to you guys on that. I would think there would be some way of doing it well from the start though, even if they had to be handled like some kinda outcast that didn't count for anything. Just try to allow us who like flaps to compete in it.

To add to Fried's points: In mkds, some people competed in nonMT and even some Missions, and those didn't save your best times either (b/c ppl didn't delete their normal times to play nonMT). Even nonSC and nonPRB present the same problem on certain courses, where if your best time is with a SC or PRB, you can't save your nonSC and nonPRB times. Yet we had good, fun competition and enough proof on those.

If cheating is the big concern (not really on WRs, as those are expected to be proven), then I'd suggest raising the proof requirements in a way that isn't too much of a burden to the admins and honest players.

I have to agree with MVT on this one. The 3-Lap only chart for Mario Kart Wii has accomplished virtually nothing and is hardly ever mentioned, even though about half the players who join the site send in their 32 course times and never get a full timesheet. Quite a few of the players who would actually be regarded as the "best," the ones who have dominated WR's and WW Top 10's, are only on the 3-Lap page and pretty much never get mentioned at all.

Now, considering how big an obstacle flaps have been to a full timesheet in MKWii, can you imagine what it will be like in MK7 now that the times aren't saved at all? If you make the flaps part of the main AF rankings, you're pretty much just asking for people to lie to get a full timesheet. Who's going to stop them from just picking some likely numbers out of thin air to claim what they think is a "fair" AF rank for themselves? It's just not practical. I'm voting "No" straight up. If you really are determined to add flap rankings, you should at least make them side rankings with no bearing on the main AF chart, but I'm fairly certain that they'll either be neglected or filled with liars, depending on how stringent you make the proof standards.

And how would we handle 1-lap courses anyway? I was expecting the game to save the most approppriate time and that we'd adhere to it, but the way it ended up it just adds to the problem.

When the poll will be closed?

Quote:


Maybe flaps can be kept track of for fun, and have their own thread. Keeping track of flaps seems impractical, and it would be very easy for people to lie about their times. Keeping the AF chart as 3-lap only seems like the best option.

It's a shame though, I've always enjoyed flaps, and I remember having a talk with a friend just the other day, hoping that flaps would be displayed on the main page, so we didn't have to drive the course to look at our flap time. Looks like Nintendo did the complete opposite and got rid of them altogether, which makes no sense. Way to not pay attention to your consumers, Nintendo. With this and the fact that courses are already being glitched, I'm starting to doubt if I want to buy this game..