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Poll Poll
Question: Use Fried's idea to handle the Fenner situation?

Thank you for voting in this poll.
(The results however will remain hidden until all the votes have been counted.)




Total votes: 40
« Last Modified by: Honko on: 11/23/11 at 15:48:32 »

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See inaccurate times? Report them here. (Read 3078 times)
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Re: See inaccurate times? Report them here.
Reply #25 - 11/17/11 at 02:17:06
 
ALAKTORN: To hear from you of all people that someone is annoying and should shut up, oh the irony. I can't think of anyone else on this board who posts so many non-contributing ostentatiously negative one liners completely devoid of constructive merit.

Personally, I can't sympathise with the sudden enragement and acuteness of the situation.

---
*Pierre discovers that Flo has a suspiciously high amount of incorrect times.
*Shortly after Flo deletes his timeset and is no longer associated with the rankings.
*Someone realises this was never thoroughly investigated after Flo chose not to be part of the site.
*Cue enragement and general assholery towards Flo, with people announcing they wish to be
relieved of staff duties unless this is properly pursued.
---

Someone finding another annoying has never been bearing argument, and I hope shall not be now.

Andreas
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Reply #26 - 11/17/11 at 02:26:59
 
A Runnelid wrote on 11/17/11 at 02:17:06:
ALAKTORN: To hear from you of all people that someone is annoying and should shut up, oh the irony. I can't think of anyone else on this board who posts so many non-contributing ostentatiously negative one liners completely devoid of constructive merit.

says the guy who didn’t even understand the situation and proceeds to make a shit post Grin
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ALAKTORN wrote on 11/22/17 at 05:24:31:
OH YEAH WHY AM I NOT GLOATING MORE

I PINNED DOWN KF!TIMUR AFTER 10 FUCKING POSTS

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL GET FUCKED

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Re: See inaccurate times? Report them here.
Reply #27 - 11/17/11 at 03:04:02
 
I think you just made my case there, with that one-liner, but since I seem to have misunderstood, please inform the ignorant by giving a full accurate non-biased account of the situation from beginning to end, so that I can make a more informed and less shitty post. Any potential knowledge I may acquire of this seemingly intricate turn of events depends on your presentation, ALAKTORN. I would be much obliged if you took some time for this good cause. (Anything that makes people construct less shit posts would be a good cause, right?)

Thanks in advance

Andreas
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Reply #28 - 11/17/11 at 03:08:51
 
Calm down alak, that post completely destroys what's good in your point (and other members'), because to say shut up to Ethan and rage against Andreas just because they have different opinions is just like spamming bullshit.

The fact is that an investigation is needed and the staff is proceeding. And andreas is right when he said that there was an enragement, but it was mainly timur, who already apologised for his behaviour, the other members just agreed with the investigation point.
So stop posting shit and make this 3d useful Smiley
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Reply #29 - 11/17/11 at 03:22:59
 
A Runnelid wrote on 11/17/11 at 03:04:02:
I think you just made my case there, with that one-liner, but since I seem to have misunderstood, please inform the ignorant by giving a full accurate non-biased account of the situation from beginning to end, so that I can make a more informed and less shitty post. Any potential knowledge I may acquire of this seemingly intricate turn of events depends on your presentation, ALAKTORN. I would be much obliged if you took some time for this good cause. (Anything that makes people construct less shit posts would be a good cause, right?)

Thanks in advance

Andreas

don’t you feel incredibly stupid for pretending to be smart by using big words? if you want to know the situation, read the posts about it, the information is all there. if you don’t want to read, then don’t share your misguided opinion

I told Ethan to shut up because he was blindly defending Flo with stupid arguments over and over, it annoyed me
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ALAKTORN wrote on 11/22/17 at 05:24:31:
OH YEAH WHY AM I NOT GLOATING MORE

I PINNED DOWN KF!TIMUR AFTER 10 FUCKING POSTS

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL GET FUCKED

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Reply #30 - 11/17/11 at 05:15:11
 
I have read the posts well enough to learn what was posted in ugly concise bullet form above, neatly stripping it of needless argumentation. You conclude I haven't read posts, suggest I read them and come back with something more accurate. I can't see how my opinion is so misinformed, at least with regards to the points that I posted.

(Most) Relevant part of post START

I fail to see why this has taken such proportions, why it's of such pressing urgency now that Flo is not on the site. I can see it being more relevant if he was interested in returning, so I understand the initial argument and how it came about, since that was actually the case. Since the topic progressed, or degressed, however you prefer to look at it, it appears he is no longer (as) interested.
Cheating accusations and blantant disrespect were thrown about quite leisurely. This, I cannot sympathise with.

(Most) Relevant part of post END

You had every opportunity to address why my post apparently to you was such "shit" with good argumentation but chose not to and rather insisted I keep quiet while insulting my deductive ability.

Please, my vocabulary is not particularly advanced, and you may think it however pompous you choose. If it somehow impedes your understanding or feels retarded to you, much like you said of cutz's writing (which is truly more eloquent than mine.), is the problem really mine to correct? And do you feel confident in insulting my perceptive skills in light of it?

Andreas
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Reply #31 - 11/17/11 at 06:36:14
 
I just want to clear some things:

First off: If you have read my posts (if you claim to have, Andreas) then you would know that it's not only about this site. The sites belong to each other, and we do know tat Flo wants to join the MK3DS rankings. So we have to deal with it now if we don't want to have a cheater on the MK3DS rankings.

@Ethan:

Dude, I can understand Alaktorn raging over your posts kind of, though just saying shut up is pretty lame(sorry alaktorn). All my personal feelings have nothing to do what happens here. I'm always trolling Flo, yes, but that has nothing to do with the case here. I have all reason for what I wrote, and as long as he does not explain himself there is no counterargument. You can't deliver his counterargument. You might know him kind of through chat, but sorry that's not enough to judge. You accuse me of being personal against him? You are the one who is only looking at his personality. So please, don't accuse me of this shit, because I have not based any of my arguments on his personality or my personal feelings about him.

My personal feelings about what to do now: We speak with Penev and Shadow about it, and I say as long as he does not at least speak about it with us, we ban/freeze him from all MK sites (inclusive MK7). This might again seem too harsh for some of you, but I say it is necessary. Think about it whatever you want, but for me the probability of him being a cheater is too high to tolerate him on any ranks with his current behavior. And see, I said until he talks. We can't 100% solve the issue without him talking about it. And he has time to post in other sections, so he has time to post here. I think it's not us to prove he is guilty, it's more him proving he is not, or trying to prove at least. So many typos are way too many to be coincidence, I say this is enough proof for us.

Again, this is what I would do, I don't know what April and Gaff will think about it.

And please, stick to the topic. Personal flames help nothing with the discussion.
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TvK wrote on 05/27/14 at 03:07:54:
You should all listen to Timur. He's an onion.



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Reply #32 - 11/17/11 at 08:30:01
 
A Runnelid wrote on 11/17/11 at 05:15:11:
Cheating accusations and blantant disrespect were thrown about quite leisurely. This, I cannot sympathise with.


Let me ask you a question Andreas. Do you think that people are capable of cheating?
The answer to this question is self evident of course, or at least I hope it is.

Now we have accepted the fact that there are cheaters out there, it’s not unreasonable to suspect some of them appear on our MK rankings. What to do with that…
Question number two: Do you think we should at least try our best to keep our rankings free of cheaters?
Again I feel your common sense will be sufficiently developed to give the right answer, which is of course yes. Then as a logical consequence, discussions to try and identify cheaters MUST take place and such discussions should therefore, by default, be acceptable and not taken personally.

However, it is possible that you wish that such discussions do not take place in the public arena or without explicitly formulating the accusations (and I do get that feeling, because you always pop-up in discussions like this to tell everyone which moral superior standards you would like them to adhere to), because you find that somehow morally despicable. However, such a policy would be in direct conflict with the goal of trying our best to keep our rankings free of cheaters. If normal site/board members are not allowed to see this type of discussions, or if you demand that opinions/contributions to such discussions should always be worded in a politically correct manner, you are shaping the platform in such a way that it will be less effective to identify cheaters*, which is the ultimate goal of topics like this one.

Concealing your arguments in euphemistic language just for the sake of trying to come across as a civilized, decent person, ultimately does not lead to a different outcome (the person under investigation is either cleared of charges or banned); what it might do however, is lead to a less efficient discussion process, because people might be mislead to think there is absolutely nothing wrong and will therefore not reflect on the issue further themselves. Mild language doesn't trigger action in most individuals.

I haven't seen horrendous posts on a personal level in this topic at all, just some guys saying they think he could be a cheater. If you prevent them from expressing such sentiments, because it can be viewed as immoral, how else do you suggest they convey the same message?

*If all board members can follow and participate, it’s obvious clues (evidence) can be collected more effectively…also, if it’s transparent to everyone what the accusations are, even if assholishly formulated, again the discussion will be more effective.  

This man speaks the truth: http://youtu.be/CNk_kzQCclo
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« Last Edit: 11/17/11 at 09:16:23 by KVD »  

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Reply #33 - 11/17/11 at 09:56:51
 
That's interesting, because I thought this was one of the few times I did not drape myself in a cloak of haughtiness or was particularly morally didactic. Smiley Sure, ALAKTORN had some of that but in light of his behaviour, it may well have been justified. I'm not a very active and or authoritative figure around here but that doesn't mean I approve of insults by someone who seemingly unfoundedly verbalises that others' and my own posts are utter shit and that we should shut our faces while contributing nothing neither to the raised points nor to the cause. (No reason for my post's alleged shittiness was given.) Ironically, I wonder if people had not thought me less offensive had I posted something along the lines of "F**K OFF S**TFACE, and wash your legs for you have crayon wax on them!".  


I said I could not sympathise with the accusations flying left and right and the very strong reaction to something that has not yet impacted the MK environment. (If it has it has done so unbeknownst to me.) One of the reasons for addressing this is that I feel (and I don't think I'm the only one) that it does not foster a good discussion climate. I'd rather take a less efficient discussion approach than one that is leaning towards being hostile, albeit somewhat inadvertently.
You make it sound (a litte, but it's a tad too much for what happened) like I went on a crusade against the entire system, or individual players.
I have not, I expressed that I was somewhat taken aback and surprised by the urgency of the issue, and how it seemed to escalate in a manner I did not like.
But here's the thing that may surprise some of you. I personally wouldn't mind if the offender was banned temporarily, or if a similar measure was taken, it's the collective negative impact upon the person I'm not fond of, and react most strongly against, and always have.
 
As for my apparently euphemistic linguistics, I would think it clear to most that I am not sitting around with a synonym dictionary and type whatever jibberish I find there to pose off as my own. I expected a different approach from you on this particular point, since you would know how I tend to write my posts. Granted, I know a few words, but I don't think I have been using them to a point that my posts are intelligible. I thought people never really liked me much anyway. If it has ever been said, I must've blinked or something. In a general sense popularity not something I've been hoping to achieve either. But I like to think I respect people, if only by not posting how they should shut their faces or that their core of content is absolute shit. Wink

I know my posting habits are grating on some because I never post much about the games, I mostly just swoop in when it comes to these discussions. Why is that? Well, I've never been a good player, in fact so much not a good player that MK games have long since become a source of the exact opposite of enjoyment in the competitive sense. As a natural progression, I don't take a competitive stance to the games anymore and the community is more important.
I also feel a do not share a lot of interests with other board members, largely because I don't have all that many. It's not something I've readily decided upon. I haven't tied many social bonds here, which should be perfectly acceptable, and should not warrant labellling me a judgemental "one trick pony", (you've used that term before, Karel. It's a pretty nice term considering what you could have said, so I thought I'd pay homage to that.) for showing up in discussions such as this one after a long hiatus. If this paragraph doesn't make me seem like an embittered old bastard past my prime I don't know what will. It's on me. I'm not angry with you, Karel. I've never really been good at holding grudges either, or I probably would have been long gone, haha. I just finally offer this information by way of explanation.

Andreas
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Reply #34 - 11/17/11 at 13:54:12
 
I'll just throw in my opinion on this matter:

@ Ethan

You say Flo just chose for the simplest option by having his entire profile deleted and afterwards you say that if he's legit he will join the site again. I would think that if Flo had any interest in joining the site again (I don't know if this is Flo's intention, I just make this up from what you said), than it would seem to me that he would just have his "typo's" removed. This is always followed by the argument that he doesn't have his MKSC cartridge anymore, but I do not consider this as a good argument at all. Flo can't deny that he knows people who know which times are false, so with one single PM he would know them (he could also have done this the past two years). Ok, he won't be able to replace them with a new time, but at least his profile will be "legit". Also his only explanation for leaving the site was that he didn't play the game according to the main site rules anymore, he said nothing about wrong times. About 80% of the players on the main ranking (of every MK game except MKW maybe) hasn't been active the past year, so actually "not playing the game anymore" isn't at all an excuse to have your profile deleted. As Honko said, leaving the site is slap in the face of the staff, and he even said that he wanted to rejoin again after he had the game again.

@ Andreas

I understand your point of view, but I disagree with some of your statements. The only unreasonable post made in this entire discussion was Alaktorn's one-liner. I haven't seen any post in which just random accusations are made towards Flo. Timur posts in a harsh way, that's true, but that's, I think, the best way to deal with this case and he backs up his accusations. Firstly the MKSC section only seems to react when someone posts like that and secondly he tries to put Flo in a position where he has to defend himself, because clearly he doesn't show up after the first accusations. You also say that this is a case that hasn't impacted the MK environment yet. That's exactly what our point of view is. We are trying to keep the MK environment from being impacted by making accusations towards Flo to find out if he is a cheater or not. I never knew that suspecting someone of cheating is a crime. I personally even find it a good thing. Suspecting someone of cheating also gives them the chance to the defend theirselves. If the person can prove himself, than the site has one legit player more on the rankings, if he's unable to prove himself, than the site has one cheater less on the rankings.

Also Flo is given so many opportunities to defend himself, but somehow Ethan is the only person that is trying to defend him. Flo clearly has time enough to read all of this and at least post something in his defense, because he still is trying to set up the youtube channel for MK7 as if nothing happened here. Again I don't have the feeling at all that someone is treating Flo unreasonably. We're still waiting for a decent explenation. A suspected person is innocent until proven guilty, but Flo isn't trying to prove himself at the time.

Sorry if I sound arrogant in this post, I just want to hear the entire story from Flo's side.
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Reply #35 - 11/18/11 at 02:44:01
 
A Runnelid wrote on 11/17/11 at 09:56:51:
That's interesting, because I thought this was one of the few times I did not drape myself in a cloak of haughtiness or was particularly morally didactic. Smiley


Actually I wasn't so much referring to your post when I spoke about euphemistic language, but the direction you want to push such discussions in. At least from your posts I get the feeling that you are trying to portray the sentiment that all such discussions should be held in a mild, respectable manner. That is a noble thought no doubt, but it's not always possible or even desirable. If your reply was mostly directed at the ALAKTORN post, then fair enough, but since you were talking about accusations and disrespect thrown about leisurely, it felt like you were talking about this discussion in general.

I have to say your post is very sensible though Andreas, it's clear where you are coming from and I definitely don't hold a grudge against you either.

The one-trick pony comment was said more in the heat of the moment if I remember correctly; I think there is a kernel of truth in that sentiment, but I would take it with a pinch of salt still, because even if it's true it's not necessarily a bad thing. I remember being too emotionally involved in that particular discussion (the Guillaume Bertrand case) to still express myself in a sober manner. It was because it impacted the most important SMK records and all my alarm-bells were ringing at full tilt, because a top player knows when someone is clearly pulling off impossible stuff. At the time the rest of the community appeared completely unalarmed and I was accused of prematurely jumping the gun. Because of these responses, I was very worried that I would get silenced, rather than the Bertrand case investigated sufficiently. Thankfully in the end Guillaume got too greedy and other top players and even moderate level players could also see that his records were getting way too fishy.

Anyway, I digress.  Tongue
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Reply #36 - 11/18/11 at 06:04:37
 
continue to digress Karel, all jokes aside, the thread i started in the smk board about suspicious times was not just closed but completely deleted by sami quicker than you can say "drew stop eating whatever the fuck that is".

I've no issue with people claiming there are false times on the site and we will take appropriate action. In Flo's case as he was inactive and no one up to then had really kicked up a fuss. Pierre mentioned it to me but no one else did, i let it slide under the impression they were probably typos. Obviously i'd not been told about the CS element.

So, here we are, people aren't happy with some of his illigitimate times and so he removes his times. He's not got the game anymore so i doubt he'll rejoin anytime soon.

Having met the guy i'm pretty sure he wouldn't care if you wanted to ban him from all of the sites. He's a decent guy and probably doesn't really give a fuck..

If someone wants to go to Alex and Lacey and tell them you think Flo should be banned then do so, you dont need our permission. While you're at it I presume you'll also be requesting that Fenner isn't allowed to either.

From where i'm sat, appropriate action is being taken in the right circumstances on a player by player basis. I've also said that anyone who joined the site after October who is found cheating from now on will be perm-banned. I didn't get much response form the mods of the other sites on making that a all-kart ban.  

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Reply #37 - 11/18/11 at 06:09:12
 
A Runnelid wrote on 11/17/11 at 02:17:06:
ALAKTORN: To hear from you of all people that someone is annoying and should shut up, oh the irony. I can't think of anyone else on this board who posts so many non-contributing ostentatiously negative one liners completely devoid of constructive merit.


Sorry Michele, but this is truth at its best.

I think the key point lies in the fact that a person who can be legitly suspected of cheating was about to be forgotten by everyone. It doesn't matter if Flo is legit or not (well, it matters on the other rankings), what matters the most is to avoid that such cases risk to be forgotten without anyone noticing. Every suspicious player must be judged.
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Reply #38 - 11/18/11 at 06:34:13
 
Nicola wrote on 11/18/11 at 06:09:12:
A Runnelid wrote on 11/17/11 at 02:17:06:
ALAKTORN: To hear from you of all people that someone is annoying and should shut up, oh the irony. I can't think of anyone else on this board who posts so many non-contributing ostentatiously negative one liners completely devoid of constructive merit.


Sorry Michele, but this is truth at its best.

it is not Grin

I insult dumb people, the “norm” is to make detailed posts telling them why they are stupid (Timur in this topic for example), but I can’t give a fuck about dumb people so I prefer not to waste my time on them

when it’s time to make intelligent discussions I’m more than open to dialogue
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ALAKTORN wrote on 11/22/17 at 05:24:31:
OH YEAH WHY AM I NOT GLOATING MORE

I PINNED DOWN KF!TIMUR AFTER 10 FUCKING POSTS

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL GET FUCKED

My YouTube

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Reply #39 - 11/18/11 at 09:22:05
 
About Murray Wright: almost all of his times are outside top 100, except some surprisingly good times (ranked around 25) on some tracks with obvious SCs (RP, RiR, BC3, RDP3). Someone should contact him to make sure he knows the non-sc rules for those tracks.
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Reply #40 - 11/18/11 at 09:35:59
 
Murray got banned from CS due to faking times, IIRC
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ALAKTORN wrote on 11/22/17 at 05:24:31:
OH YEAH WHY AM I NOT GLOATING MORE

I PINNED DOWN KF!TIMUR AFTER 10 FUCKING POSTS

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL GET FUCKED

My YouTube

MKDS: 31 GODs, 28 Myths, 5 Titans, Hold 9 NoPRB CRs, Hold 11 PRB CRs, Hold 2 NoMT WRs, Held 7 NoPRB WRs and 8 Beta WRs
MKW: Held 2 3lap WRs, many Flaps
MK7: Held a lot of WRs
MK8: Held some WRs
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Reply #41 - 11/18/11 at 09:37:53
 
proof alak and then he's gone from here.
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Reply #42 - 11/18/11 at 09:58:06
 
I love how people wanna clean the rankings...

inb4MKSCPPreducedto20players
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Reply #43 - 11/18/11 at 10:00:18
 
http://www.cyberscore.me.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1234.0

the real story was that he had an insane amount of suspicious records (submitting something then changing it to something worse, then back to something better etc.) he never provided a single proof so he was banned

I also remember he had many impossible times in MKDS Missions, but in that topic they don’t get mentioned
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ALAKTORN wrote on 11/22/17 at 05:24:31:
OH YEAH WHY AM I NOT GLOATING MORE

I PINNED DOWN KF!TIMUR AFTER 10 FUCKING POSTS

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL GET FUCKED

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MKDS: 31 GODs, 28 Myths, 5 Titans, Hold 9 NoPRB CRs, Hold 11 PRB CRs, Hold 2 NoMT WRs, Held 7 NoPRB WRs and 8 Beta WRs
MKW: Held 2 3lap WRs, many Flaps
MK7: Held a lot of WRs
MK8: Held some WRs
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Detective Spril
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Helping solve
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6793 sex records
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Re: See inaccurate times? Report them here.
Reply #44 - 11/18/11 at 23:00:23
 
Update on Flo: I PMed him and did receive an explanation from him, which I'm not revealing here because frankly, it doesn't need to be. (I think posting it here would just create a lot of wank that won't accomplish anything.) I'm currently working on looking into the explanation I was given, and will determine what needs to happen based on what I figure out. (I'm not guaranteeing this will be done in the next few days as I do work 40 hours a week on top of this, and Black Friday is coming up, so I won't be around much (I work in retail).)

In terms of an all-kart ban: if you guys want to PM shadow and Penev about it, go for it. Regardless of what I find, Gaff and I have no power to ban him from all kart sites, just this one. All 7 MK sites are connected, but the staff for each works independently. Something will be done, but I'm not sure what that will be yet, as I want to double-check Flo's explanation first.
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hahaae
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Re: See inaccurate times? Report them here.
Reply #45 - 11/18/11 at 23:04:00
 
Chris wrote on 11/18/11 at 09:58:06:
I love how people wanna clean the rankings...

inb4MKSCPPreducedto20players


Yeah, it's pretty pathetic.

*never touches my PP MKSC cartridge again*
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SMK: #15 NTSC
MKSC: #1 SC - #7 Non-SC
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KVD
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7789 days karting
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Re: See inaccurate times? Report them here.
Reply #46 - 11/19/11 at 02:08:49
 
Care to explain why you think it's pathetic?

Would you rather have:
a) 500 players on the charts with at least 25+ cheaters
b) 20 players on the charts all 100% proven and legit

I'd go for option b without a second of hesitation, just saying. Even 1 cheater on a page with a big amount of people can already be very disturbing if that person is high ranked and therefore impacts a large portion of the players.
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Historical WR champion in Super Mario Kart Time Trial: 500+ career World Records and counting
Source: https://mkwrs.com/smk/rankings.php
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Zwiebel
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6670 days karting
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Reply #47 - 11/19/11 at 05:39:11
 
@Hahaae I'm sick of hearing bullshit, you call us pathetic because we don't want cheaters on the rankings? Do you want all cheaters to remain on the charts? You want us to do nothing? Are you even thinking about what you're saying?

This site should be credible, and it's not if there are many cheaters on it. You just want players and sacrifice credibility for it? Sorry, but that's retarded. Same goes for Chris. Should we just do nothing? Should we add every player, even though it's obvious he's lying? Yeah, one more player!!!!

I have to calm down...
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TvK wrote on 05/27/14 at 03:07:54:
You should all listen to Timur. He's an onion.



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Re: See inaccurate times? Report them here.
Reply #48 - 11/19/11 at 06:44:52
 
Zwiebel wrote on 11/19/11 at 05:39:11:
@Hahaae I'm sick of hearing bullshit, you call us pathetic because we don't want cheaters on the rankings? Do you want all cheaters to remain on the charts? You want us to do nothing? Are you even thinking about what you're saying?

This site should be credible, and it's not if there are many cheaters on it. You just want players and sacrifice credibility for it? Sorry, but that's retarded. Same goes for Chris. Should we just do nothing? Should we add every player, even though it's obvious he's lying? Yeah, one more player!!!!

I have to calm down...


You have all the reasons on the world to be mad this time. WTF are you saying Ethan Smiley?
And about chris, i think he was joking, i don't think he meant that literally Grin
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6th Italian Karter

SMK: War C, Italy #5
MK64: Elite B, Italy #5
MKSC: Exp A, Italy #2, 16 CRs
MKDS: Exp E, Italy #12
MKW: Int A, Italy #11
MK7: -, Italy #14

Activity: MKDS
Goals: Top 200, Expert D or better

Planning for: MKSC
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Chris
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wao

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Re: See inaccurate times? Report them here.
Reply #49 - 11/19/11 at 07:42:52
 
Ok sorry Timur. I don't wanted to let you think that I don't care about the case... I agree with your opinion about it. It was just a bad joke ok? Ok. Embarrassed
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Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Shocked
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