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Poll closed Poll
Question: Who wins the third POQ of 2011
*** This poll has now closed ***


Andy Lundeen  
  5 (23.8%)
Christian Wild  
  14 (66.6%)
Andrea Gardina  
  2 (9.5%)




Total votes: 21
« Last Modified by: TvK on: 10/09/11 at 02:47:34 »

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3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011 (Read 336 times)
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3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
10/09/11 at 02:47:20
 
Here we are again with already the 3rd POQ of this year. Let's find out who the contestants are:

#3 Andy Lundeen: Andy started this quarter at #7, but in July, he was totally on fire, grabbing every single POW that month. This combined with more activity in August and September brought him into the top three of MKSC. And don't forget the WR he got on SW flap and the WR tie on RMC4 flap. Andy cut almost 30% of his AF.

#6 Christian Wild: Chris was again outstanding this quarter. He started slowly on #12, but then he quickly broke into the top 10 and landed at #6. And Chris also took 6 new WRs to make him the player with the third most WRs. Chris cut almost 50% of his AF with these records and other strong times.

#43 Andrea Gardina: But also in the lower ranks there was a karter who showed some nice skills this quarter. Andrea started just inside the top 70, to break into the top 50 and eventually end the quarter at #43, just a tiny bit behind his rival Christophe Charignon. Andrea's PRs helped him to cut 38% of his AF.

Votings will end October 14th

May the best karter win it



Honorable mentions

These three players certainly weren't the only karters active this quarter. First there was some great WR activity by site champion Terrence Fenner, maybe he could even reach 50 WRs. Also nice progress made by Michael Vogt thanks to his improved ZZMT skill. Great work by Christophe Charignon for moving up the charts and getting some amazing CCI PRs, both ranked within the top 10 and finally Paul Tanney deserves a mentions for his strong recent comeback.
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« Last Edit: 10/12/11 at 04:07:16 by TvK »  
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #1 - 10/09/11 at 03:34:39
 
First vote

May Shock win Cool
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #2 - 10/09/11 at 06:08:24
 
Nah. Chris for POQ! (But only because he still played Non-ZZMT this Quarter  Smiley)
-Christophe.
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #3 - 10/09/11 at 06:10:58
 
I go for Mr. Gardina. Would have voted Mr. Christophe, but he wasn't nominated Roll Eyes...
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #4 - 10/09/11 at 06:13:42
 
Chris wrote on 10/09/11 at 06:10:58:
I go for Mr. Gardina. Would have voted Mr. Christophe, but he wasn't nominated Roll Eyes...

I expected myself to be nominated, but forgot Andy...  Roll Eyes
-Christophe.
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Joe Reinreb wrote on 03/07/11 at 16:34:18:
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #5 - 10/09/11 at 06:26:35
 
Actually I was nominated, but TvK was jealous so he just scratched me...lol
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TvK wrote on 05/27/14 at 03:07:54:
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #6 - 10/09/11 at 09:10:07
 
^ Smiley

And Christophe, it was a pretty hard decision to choose three people for the poll, because you and Michi were also pretty strong this quarter.
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« Last Edit: 10/09/11 at 09:27:35 by TvK »  
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #7 - 10/09/11 at 09:35:54
 
Well then, is there a particular rule that states only 3 people can be nominated? I mean, why not have 5 people, since that reflects the amount of activity this quarter?
-Christophe.
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Joe Reinreb wrote on 03/07/11 at 16:34:18:
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #8 - 10/09/11 at 09:48:27
 
Lafungo wrote on 10/09/11 at 09:35:54:
Well then, is there a particular rule that states only 3 people can be nominated? I mean, why not have 5 people, since that reflects the amount of activity this quarter?
-Christophe.


This is a very valid point. I was not aware it was a set and may I add surprisingly low number of  candidates for an award spanning a quarter of the year. I take it there is no official ruling on this matter. What if there were to be 100 active players for one quarter. Is there an appointed committee consisting of news updaters and site officials? Are other people besides active people for the specific time frame involved?

Please note that I have now updated my post with more highly relevant questions. I would very much appreciate for them to be answered in sufficient detail.
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #9 - 10/09/11 at 09:52:03
 
Because if I look at the hard stats (AF %, ARR % and WRs), than the three players nominated for this poll are quite a bit stronger than the rest of the players this quarter. What you and Michi did this quarter was also quite strong, but since what you and Michi achieved is similar but weaker to for example Andrea, I don't see how including more people in this quarter could make the poll better or more correct. If I included more people I would just make the quality of the poll less.

Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, I don't mean in any way to say that you're a weak player, but that's the way how I decide who should be nominated and who shouldn't.
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #10 - 10/09/11 at 10:45:46
 
I understand that in terms of raw statistics, nominations seem fairly obvious. However, because this poll is determined by our members' votes and not just stats, factors that aren't taken into account in the current nomination system can be overlooked. For example, I voted Chris over Andy and Andrea not because he got better stats (not even sure if this is true), but because he managed to achieve some amazing new WRs (whereas a new WR by "01 is accounted the same as a new WR by 1"50). Or, to take a clearer example (I swear I don't say this to brag  Grin), some people might want to vote for me over Andrea even though my stats are worse simply because of my CCI PRs.

No offense taken at your post Tom, and I hope the feeling is mutual,
Christophe.
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Joe Reinreb wrote on 03/07/11 at 16:34:18:
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #11 - 10/09/11 at 11:38:18
 
A Runnelid wrote on 10/09/11 at 09:48:27:
Lafungo wrote on 10/09/11 at 09:35:54:
Well then, is there a particular rule that states only 3 people can be nominated? I mean, why not have 5 people, since that reflects the amount of activity this quarter?
-Christophe.


This is a very valid point. I was not aware it was a set and may I add surprisingly low number of  candidates for an award spanning a quarter of the year. I take it there is no official ruling on this matter. What if there were to be 100 active players for one quarter. Is there an appointed committee consisting of news updaters and site officials? Are other people besides active people for the specific time frame involved?

Please note that I have now updated my post with more highly relevant questions. I would very much appreciate for them to be answered in sufficient detail.


There is no such thing as a committee of news updaters in charge of poq awards. At first the awards section of this site was hardly updated, because the Gaff was the only person who updated the site now and then (nobody blames him because it was practically impossible for 1 person to maintain the entire site). Later April joined the staff as chief updater. But she, too, was busy with stuff of her own and only 1 update once every 2, 3 weeks was made.

So Gaff and April decided to try and set up some sort of updating system with regular updaters who could spread the work so the site would be updated nearly daily. Timur, Mick, I and several others were in this project (it started last year's summer iirc). Us three were also in charge of the news updates, because before this there were only 4 news updates a year, and as beginning updaters we were only allowed to award POWs. POMs and POQs were awarded by April, without voting. When April was away for a while, she left me in charge of POQ awards. I asked her if I could do votings to award them, and she said it was OK.

Before I started awarding the POQs, there was never a voting for an award except for the POY. Because almost entire 2009 and half of 2010 had no awards. Gaff and I went back searching through the yahoo groups and stuff to give away the missing awards, so those were awarded without a voting either. I just implemented the voting because I found it more fair.

To answer your other question, the three people that are nominated for the POQ, are the players that statiscally performed best that quarter, as I explained to Christophe. And after that, the community can decide for themselves which one of the three stastically best players performed best in their eyes. I know that Christophe also deserved to be in the poll, but if three people did better in this quarter, than I find it hard to give him a chance to win an award that only the best player deserves. Again no offence to you Christophe, you did a great job last quarter, I have tons of respect for your CCI times, but I hope you understand the way I think.
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #12 - 10/09/11 at 13:21:36
 
TvK is right here, sorry Christophe but this really isn't a "popularity contest" or something. This is just merely looking at facts, and I'm sure TvK picked the right 3 persons for the vote. The vote is just there to determine between the small differences that exist, if there was one outstanding player in AF and ARR then there wouldn't a vote be needed anyway. But since there were 3 "equal" performances, the vote will decide. Since Andrea did better cuts, he's the only one of you 3 in the vote.

Karting can be hard business, you know. I know it might be disappointing to not even be nominated after a good quarter, but hell, good players won't be remembered because they got an award, they will be remembered for what they achieved in the end, no matter if they got 0 or 1000 awards. Remember this.

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TvK wrote on 05/27/14 at 03:07:54:
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #13 - 10/09/11 at 17:28:33
 
Chris FTW

idk y you forgot me man Huh Huh (or at least an honorable mention)
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #14 - 10/10/11 at 01:19:36
 
TvK wrote on 10/09/11 at 11:38:18:
A Runnelid wrote on 10/09/11 at 09:48:27:
Lafungo wrote on 10/09/11 at 09:35:54:
Well then, is there a particular rule that states only 3 people can be nominated? I mean, why not have 5 people, since that reflects the amount of activity this quarter?
-Christophe.


This is a very valid point. I was not aware it was a set and may I add surprisingly low number of  candidates for an award spanning a quarter of the year. I take it there is no official ruling on this matter. What if there were to be 100 active players for one quarter. Is there an appointed committee consisting of news updaters and site officials? Are other people besides active people for the specific time frame involved?

Please note that I have now updated my post with more highly relevant questions. I would very much appreciate for them to be answered in sufficient detail.


There is no such thing as a committee of news updaters in charge of poq awards. At first the awards section of this site was hardly updated, because the Gaff was the only person who updated the site now and then (nobody blames him because it was practically impossible for 1 person to maintain the entire site). Later April joined the staff as chief updater. But she, too, was busy with stuff of her own and only 1 update once every 2, 3 weeks was made.

So Gaff and April decided to try and set up some sort of updating system with regular updaters who could spread the work so the site would be updated nearly daily. Timur, Mick, I and several others were in this project (it started last year's summer iirc). Us three were also in charge of the news updates, because before this there were only 4 news updates a year, and as beginning updaters we were only allowed to award POWs. POMs and POQs were awarded by April, without voting. When April was away for a while, she left me in charge of POQ awards. I asked her if I could do votings to award them, and she said it was OK.

Before I started awarding the POQs, there was never a voting for an award except for the POY. Because almost entire 2009 and half of 2010 had no awards. Gaff and I went back searching through the yahoo groups and stuff to give away the missing awards, so those were awarded without a voting either. I just implemented the voting because I found it more fair.

To answer your other question, the three people that are nominated for the POQ, are the players that statiscally performed best that quarter, as I explained to Christophe. And after that, the community can decide for themselves which one of the three stastically best players performed best in their eyes. I know that Christophe also deserved to be in the poll, but if three people did better in this quarter, than I find it hard to give him a chance to win an award that only the best player deserves. Again no offence to you Christophe, you did a great job last quarter, I have tons of respect for your CCI times, but I hope you understand the way I think.


Thank You for this response. I do know a lot of the backstory behind the site, and I also know that there was a site well before Tom and company start developing the site into what we see today. Yes, I am that old as an MKSC player and sadly also as a person.
I can understand and appreciate the qualification basis for the POQ, my qualm lies not so much there as with the scarce amount of nominations over what it is a fourth of an entire year's time. This is long enough of a period that the award at least to me carries significantly more weight than  POW awards (which oftentimes ironically see a longer or equally long list of candidates.) and rightly should be acknowledged as a distinction of magnitude.
Competition has seen far more meager days than now, and for this not to be reflected in the awards by nominating more players feels devalving of the allure of the award itself and the competition for it.

It's not a popularity contest, (although that would certainly explain my lack of MK awards. The only week I got an SMK award was the week when nobody else was playing. Grin OK, so I did get POW once when Mark Jones updated the MK:SC site, but as evidenced, nobody remembers that.)
I don't think anybody meant to convey they thought it was. Increasing the number of slots or extending the reports for the quarterly activity could mean added incentive for more players to remain active. A lot of people would be perfectly contented with the recognition of being nominated or receiving a mention in the write-up, perhaps. I know I'd be. And I am not in the least saying this hoping to procure the least bit of acclaim myself.

Let's say three of our foremost players in MK64 Michael Jongerius, Matthias Rustemeyer and William Lacey are battling it out over the summer. Knowing beforehand there would be three nominations for POQ, I'd certainly feel the award was well beyond reach, perhaps so much so that I stopped playing to the best of my standards even though I know I they are ridiculously far from being at match with their skills. It needlessly takes a lot of the excitement and joy out of it for those who are a bit further down the advancement ladder. They already know they likely won't win the award, so having something else - however small - would be positive. I'm not saying there has to be a ceremony with a Mario face cake, funny banners and red shells, but I would like for it all to be a bit more of than it is now.  

My last question was addressing the fact that I believe all or the vast majority of the active news updaters for said quarter could if not should be involved in the selection process to some degree.
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #15 - 10/10/11 at 07:28:55
 
I see what you mean Andreas and I think I'm going to add some honorable mentions to the first post. I hope people will be happy about it. And I agree on the fact that the entire updating staff (lol this is actually only Timur and I currently) has to decide who can be in the vote and who can't. But I actually think that Timur agrees with the three people I nominated this time.
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #16 - 10/10/11 at 07:56:28
 
My birthday is the 15th boys, you know what you can give me for a b-day present now.  Cool

I like the honorable mentions idea and format by the way, thanks for working this out.
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #17 - 10/10/11 at 16:41:15
 
When I made last year's POY thread for MKDS, a lot of people seemed a bit peeved since the number of candidates in the poll was so low, and they thought they deserved to at least be in the poll. I only added the best of the best though, because those are the only ones that truly deserve the opportunity to win. Not to offend the other players who have done good jobs as well, but there has to be a line drawn. Otherwise, you would have to add everybody who was active throughout the given period.

Let's say I was active with one PR that moved up barely at all; I get into the poll, I message people to vote for me, I win. Not quite fair, as somebody mentioned before this can turn into a popularity contest. This sort of happened one year in MKDS, but the past is the past and cannot be changed now. You just want to make sure somebody who absolutely can say they deserve it wins.

That being said, I voted for Christian (sorry Andy!). Had to be one of those two, and their moves seem pretty comparable in terms of how much they moved up and from where. Christian's world records are what push him over the top for me. Regardless, should make for a very interesting POY discussion between the two as the year comes to a close soon.
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #18 - 10/11/11 at 01:07:22
 
Lol! Fenner is still not on the list! Roll Eyes
Would vote for Chris this time. Smiley
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #19 - 10/11/11 at 01:21:38
 
its not a science but awards are largely based on stats.

Pow's are a bit more flexible as there are alot more of them and they dont go to a vote.

The poq is something which should be based on stats, as Tom pointed out these players had stats which outweighed the others. By increasing the other slots you run the risk of the votes being spread to thin or evenly. With the three in question it makes it easier to come to a decision.

Awards are not the most important part of the site, they're a bonus or recognition part but they dont count towards anything. I.e. i've never heard a player mention they have the most award points even though they're calculated. I dont mean to devalue them, just want to add that there are more important things to worry about Smiley

If someone really wants to vote for someone else then they can pm Tom and he can make a judgement based on your reasoning. Thats cool. But it will have to be pretty good reasoning and he's entitled to decline on good grounds.
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #20 - 10/11/11 at 17:01:51
 
I'm now satisfied with the functioning of the poll. However, if I could petition for one more thing, I'd appreciate if you could add the statisitics you base your nominations on to the first post so we can also have an idea of each nominee's statistical progress.
Thanks,
Christophe.
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #21 - 10/12/11 at 04:06:56
 
For everyone or just for the three nominated players? I already did the nominees now.
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #22 - 10/12/11 at 09:40:34
 
TvK wrote on 10/12/11 at 04:06:56:
For everyone or just for the three nominated players? I already did the nominees now.

for more than 3 people
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #23 - 10/13/11 at 05:28:23
 
The poll should include every people that cutted more than 20% AF imho.

However i vote for chris Wink
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Re: 3rd POQ (Jul-Sep) 2011
Reply #24 - 10/13/11 at 12:22:42
 
It was a tough decision but I'm voting for Andrea due to his nice progress recently.

Hopefully it will encourage him to continue playing!  Smiley
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