What are your opinions on what you saw? Are you convinced Fenner is legit after this meeting?

Most people believed that Fenner was capable of high level times, and he achieved some really good times and splits, and the skepticism was around just how high a level he is capable of. He is obviously going to feel pressure though, because an audience was scrutinising his every move.
His performance was convincing in my opinion.

Thanks to Fenner for cooperating, but most of all, thanks to Andy for going to the trouble he went to to make this meet happen.

I would like to thank everyone and let's hope it going to be better in the future!

I will try and set things right more

The statue of Sami in the door I think was enough to convince me that he was a serious karter at least.

Okay, so I guess it can't hurt to give criticism of what I saw in person.

Pros:

+ He performed high quality times on stream at request, including times like a 4"23 KB1 lap and getting a time .09 off the WR of BC1 lap. He proved capable by getting 47"06 on the first try on SGB, and he even pulled off 2 high quality laps on SG that, if he had finished lap three, he would have beaten his PR by a large margin. He also got under .3 away from his PR on BL within the third or fourth attempt.

+ His DS is different than other systems I have played on, but that's because it is so beat up. The D-Pad is so screwed it's unbelievable. But this actually seemed to give an ever-so-slight advantage to him, because he just had to move his fingers and not really press down at all. It was worn down that much.

+ Changing cartridges did not effect game play, and the game he's playing on seems fine.

+ Fenner's responses to requests was quick and willing. While on stream, there was absolutely 0 possibility of cheating.

+ The timescroll matched what is on his profile. A couple faster SC times, but they were not submitted or were fixed.

+ He has an iron board and plays on the floor

Cons:

- Long cheating history, even recently after he told me he was done for good. Unpredictable at this time, so he will need to reinforce himself with frequent live streams or he should be frozen.

- Had replies like "almost never cheating" then when pressured said no more firmly. This could be a factor of nervousness due to public speaking and being questioned on a more personal topic, but this cannot be assumed to be the case.

- He has Dolphin on his computer, then mentioned something about forgetting to delete it.

- I never got my freeze pop.

So, to sum up, this meeting helped Fenner more than hurt him I think. I'm confident it showed that he is both a great player and a decent ironing board. However, he most certainly needs to find time to stream whenever possible, and he needs to continue making videos for each PR. This meeting was a lifeline tossed out to the water to save him from drowning, but he's not coming back into the boat and the rope holding him afloat could be cut at any time.

Ok i guess the result was kinda as expected, theres probably still lots of 50/50 feelings and questions to ask. But for now thank you for helping to put this meet together.

First at all, thanks again to Shock for what he has done for the site and for the time and money he put into it. You're the best.
Also thanks to Terrence for being willing to prove himself, is this because you felt more dawg than homie yesterday?

At first I thought the stream was rather strange, because we couldn't see Terrence at all and we couldn't see him playing. Then things got better fortunately.
I think Fenner's skills are obvious. He set top times in no time; unfortunately he couldn't set any WR or PR. I was expecting at least one PR, but I guess it isn't easy at all to play like a Site Champ when someone is near you trying to catch any cheating you may potentially do and a whole community is watching you from all over the world.
The questioning part is what disappointed me, though. Fenner said many strange things ("almost never" cheating being a perfect example, but also claiming that the MKDS times were typos, then calling them BS, if I remember correctly). This didn't certainly help him.
By the way, I've had a lot of fun during the stream. There were some memorable moments - the ironing board, Dhalfenner among the best ones

I am not an expert player, so I won't judge anyone here. These are my opinions.

Mick wrote on 07/06/11 at 03:07:07:



The 50/50 is that we are all generally happy with the fact that he can drive, no dodgy stuff on his cart / DS (except for the mashed up D-Pad allegedly).

But then just the content of the stuff he was saying; one thing could be admitting that he did things wrong recently, but they were a bit vague answers. I suppose Id have preferred a straight "yes i did this wrong 100% and i was stupid" or "no, this happened because of such and such reason and no cheating was involved whatsoever" + some evidence.

Oh and Ironing board ftw, if a solution cant be made on this maybe the ironing board can decide!

I missed out on the first 22 minutes or so of the broadcast, but these are my reflections on what I saw.

Terrence was playing in one of the most physically awkward positions I have ever seen, and the most awkward position ever for anyone recording live streaming content within the history of the MK community, let's hope.

It seemed he needed to warm up for a short while, but soon produced some solid content, hitting seeral respectable times, albeit not PRs or times of the magnitude some may have hoped, within attempts. A just and hopefully irrefutable demonstration of his potential.
VL1 is a bothersome track to achieve much on within short time constraints, so I'm not going to hold much against the progress there.
A good portion of the remaining track attempts were affirming, and I was particularly impressed by his eleventh-hour BL performance.
All in all, his playing established to me that he is indeed very talented and very much capable of the progress we've witnessed over the past few months without having to resort to cheating.

Where Terrence did not convince me as well as I thought he would at least have attempted, was in his opportunity to dispel at least some concern about his reportedly old habits by more concisely stating what happened and why it came to be.
I can see that this type of talk is a very awkward process, and could make anyone feel somewhat uncomfortable, but I would have liked to see more prompt answers and Terrence taking direct responsibility for what's happened prior.
He can't make what happened go away, something for everyone to concede, but attempting to have some sort of closure on the things you've decided to shun would be perhaps be valuable.
He has admitted to cheating, and harping it further wouldn't undo it. It's whether it happens again that is relevant to me.
Some of the dialogue gave the impression of him excusing things away, which is quite reminiscent of his behaviour on the boards. The last interview did very little, if anything in terms of winning over those in conflict over his genuine honesty standpoint. To me and hopefully most everyone else, it solidified that his current times have been achieved legitimately, but to many, a large part of the issue lies elsewhere.
Unfortunately, this may mean continued incentive for some to keep acting rudely towards Fenner, which I hope doesn't happen.

A big hand to Andy for hosting and arranging this while keeping viewers informed and entertained throughout.
I also commend Fenner for readily meeting the requirements and accepting the conditions in good sport.

Andreas

qft above and above +1

Those who wanted their times to be removed had the opportunity to pre-state what they wanted to see and largely got what they wanted. Clearly the playing wasn't live but Andy was in the room and he was on cam when switching the carts etc so it was legit.

In terms of his responses to cheating, no they weren't what some of us wanted to hear. It was a bit waffly "almost" springs to mind. However having spoken to fenner in general and read his posts here, he's not the most articulate of people. No offence tdawg.

So where do we go from here? We have laid out foundations to the proof he has to continually provide us and so far he has met everything we have put to him (albeit not convincingly with the mkds "typos"). Iirc he did say he was over that "bullshit".

I was chatting to my wife about all this today explaining my reasoning, seeing what an outsider thought. One of the main things was that if he was removed (for previous cheating) and Seb got a WR then someone, someone, someone (if not the new SR holder) would say "great time but Fenners got XYZ which is - quicker". If i was the new SR holder i'd feel that my time was cheapened and that i would want the best time in the world, not the best time on the site. Maybe this isn't everyones perspective but it is how i would feel in someone like seb or the other top players shoes.

I propose, as he's met the current conditions and apologised (and had a long ban for previous cheating), that he remains on the site and unfrozen as so long as he maintains the level of proof that April has stated. Add to that I am sure Andy might be prepared to go and validate Fenner in the future or April might (i'll talk to her about that over the next few months).

In discussion with the other moderators we have made a decision that if Terrence is found/caught cheating (thats 100%) on ANY of the MK sites we manage (that does not include CS as frankly thats nothing to do with us) then he will be perm banned from all sites. In the short future i'll work with the mods to outline something to pre-empt cheating attempts in the future. Needless to say they will be quite severe.

To summarise, i would ask those who dislike Fenners attitiude to put that aside, appreciate that we have a talented karter on our charts and that the moderators are doing everything we can to prove his validity. If this is not enough and you would still like your times removed then let April know and she will make this happen. Personally I hope this doesn't.

Tom

and again, massive thanks to Andy and the ironing board.

Oh.. That didn't even cross my mind - to go in records mode.   So no we didn't do that. I'm sure Fenner could provide a video of this though right away; if you are content to trust that.

Now I think it's pretty clear that Terrence will almost never cheat again: what a great relief !

I don't really have much to add to the conversation myself, as everyone here has mostly said what I would have wanted to say already.

I'm fine with Fenner being allowed on the site so long as he keeps up with his regulations. I've got more of a feeling that he's got impulse cheating than anything (especially with his responses to the questions in the end chat), so keeping up with proof will keep him in line.

Don't make me regret me saying this Fenner.

Quote:

If I recall correctly, someone said that Dolphin cannot be used for MKSC.

i think dolphin is also compatiable with gamecube as well.