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I'm not 100% how we could incorporate that, but I do see that as being a possible solution I'll give Gaff a heads-up and maybe we could figure out how to make that work.

clbrun1 wrote on 07/17/11 at 03:01:37:


Karel's comments have not been ignored, but just like I told him, my adminship is not what is up for debate here. I'm not going anywhere, and that has nothing to do with ego whatsoever. My job is to handle things like this, and running away from this problem instead of sticking around kind of defeats that. Obama wouldn't walk out just because a few people aren't happy. Neither would any doctor. I'm not either.

Also, just to get facts straight, karterfreak and Matt Ellis are the same person, and he opted to keep his times up after the live meet. Also, for what it's worth, Fenner cheated on MKSC before I became staff here, so I've handled this based on what I know about his history, and for what it's worth, it took me a very long time to be convinced enough to accept him back on, so trust me, I haven't "been fooled again and again". I'm keeping my eyes out, and Fenner knows this quite well.

Anyway, in terms of solutions, banning him without a damn good reason to do it isn't fair, but Pierre's solution might possibly be workable. I'll PM Gaff about it to see what kind of kinks would need to be worked out.

The Gaff wrote on 07/15/11 at 01:46:57:

i suppose there is a typo and that you were probably meaning "the best player" (without S), since actually fenner is reintegrated into the site but several other top players are quitting it because of this decision.
so maybe it s more important for you to have one troublesome karter (but ranked #1) on the site than maybe 5-6 trusted top karters?
so one can wonder if fenner back is worth [stellmacher + pierre + neo + karel + karterfreak + seb + mick + mario + matt ellis] left.
you admins/ mods know what is good or not for the site, considering it may become an accurate listing of WRs with less activity on the charts and the board.

I wrote what I wrote. Best players. I wouldn't want those other players to remove their times, if they did then it would be them who were messing up the charts - not me. I told you, i'm still working on ways to make this work for everyone.

Your analogy about the Dr is flawed purely on the basis that you are assuming that Fenner being part of the site has to mean that it creates "worse health".

I think you could argue that the dr is giving the patient a virus to boost its immune system. I'm not suggesting that Fenner is a virus but i'm just re-enforcing that your premise is biased in your analogy.

To say that karel and co removing times would be bad is true. But i'm doing my best for that not to happen and we are not at that stage yet. I think there is a solution where the remedy doesn't create worse health.

Sometimes the Dr needs to try a few different types of medication  

Give me a day or two to chat with a few people about these domination charts, i quite like the idea but i need to look into it more as i wasn't really aware of them. Seperate charts may just be easier.

The Gaff wrote on 07/17/11 at 07:13:12:

and when I play MKSC, i plug the charger to my DS; therefore, I get infinite power to the DS...in other words, it won't lose power

I like the "domination" idea. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

Just to make it sure, would everyone accept this as a solution to the case for now? (Especially going towards the people who wanted their times removed etc).

I guess it would be a good compromise for both sides.

Shock wrote on 07/17/11 at 10:47:44:

Don't worry Andy.  I'm will certainly NOT cheat in MKSC, and that's a promise I will keep until we all die! (hopefully nothing happens)
And the same with SMK if I ever get an SNES controller when I do some livestreaming on SMK

and out of all MK games I played so far, MKSC is probably the easiest game I ever achieved since SMK back in 2008

MKSC > SMK > MK64 > MKDD = MKW > MKDS

GhettoKarter wrote on 07/17/11 at 10:58:23:


That's the problem. If you cheat anywhere at all for whatever reason, we will be able to track it, and you will be banned. Without question or further dispute.

You're lucky I would say right now to even be here still. After the MKDS incident and how you treated the rest of the community and especially Seb, we, to put it straightly, had next to nothing to lose by banning you. Is that clear?

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No, it does matter in my opinion about your opinion. Could you explain why not, and if you have any better ideas at a compromise? At this point I think a temporary compromise is all but inevitable or this site is going to crash and burn at this rate.

Shock wrote on 07/17/11 at 11:06:29:

There is no solution now, it's too late now. The only solution was here:

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It's useless to try convincing me that any solution would be good as I won't accept any of them, that's why I retire and do not want my PRs to appear again since such a crappy solution has been created by people who went completely unable to deal with it properly before a point of no return.

Vorsch wrote on 07/17/11 at 08:56:56:


That's a good point. I think, at least for now, that that would be the only downside to Pierre's idea. I think as a temporary solution, we can split the charts and see how Fenner does. If he continues to provide adequate proof, we can eventually blend the charts, and obviously is he missteps, then we can get rid of him.

I think the ambiguity of this is what will make it work. Fenner will still be allowed to send in times, just as he has, and he will be listed, but on a more general listing, whereas the current site rankings would be Fenner-free for those who still doubt him.

As banning him isn't a good solution to this, I'd find it a reasonable compromise if others agree with me.

MrL1193 wrote on 07/17/11 at 11:32:50:


Yeah but that heated reaction was directly correlated to the controversy of the decision. So ultimately it's the decision (or pan-ultimately Fenner being busted multiple times for cheating, even recently in MKDS) that "caused" it.

Anyway finger pointing isn't gonna get this anywhere, I have to agree with April on that note.
In the end I might have gotten carried away in my rather aggressive reactions to April and Tom; though I mostly kept things 100% rational, that (i.e. not taking personal feelings into account) is probably exactly why my posts might have been perceived as asshole-ish at points.

It's only because I'd rather get poked in the eyes by red hot needles than see the credibility of the MK sites go to waste, though. In other words I care.
I know April and Tom care as well, but in their reactions I could sense that they didn't quite grasp the ramifications of this decision/situation. Once it became clear that they were done debating about it, I felt like I had to try for more desperate measures. I feel I might have taken it a tad too far perhaps, because I do know that both April and Tom are by no means careless about what happens to this place. So yeah, eventhough my criticism wasn't targeted at personal matters, I can see how some of the things posted had impact on a personal level. In short, I apologize for that part.
Tom and me go waaay back though (anyone who loves ISS2000 as much as I do is an instant legend; also you were undoubtedly one of the central persons that made NLG 2007 one of the best weeks in my life), so it probably/hopefully takes far more than a few harsh words to destroy that bond. We'll drink some beers together next time we meet.  

Shock wrote on 07/17/11 at 11:06:29:



GhettoKarter wrote on 07/17/11 at 11:11:41:


Poor choice of words anyone, or is that just me?  

KVD wrote on 07/17/11 at 13:45:25:


Irrelevant. Terrence is not the most extraordinary when it comes to social comprehension and processing. I saw this in person, and you can see it here too.

- Since this is a rather serious matter, could the posts please be relevant to the discussion and not ones that purposefully seek provocation. Pertinence to the situation at hand and not references to specific people, either what Fenner says or others, belong in this discussion, and I think the moderators should take action to remove posts that do not meet this criteria.