MD_Neo wrote on 06/23/11 at 04:18:47:Okay, Terrence seems to accept to meet somebody trusted now (but he's aware of what happened to Raul, who refused to meet anyone, so he's probably careful about that), but he's also asking on which tracks he'll have to play in front of him, etc. Anyone would say: "Ok, no worries, we'll meet very soon". He's not. He immediatly requested informations which could somehow help him to get out of this risky situation. Would he want to know on which tracks he'll have to play because he knows that he's currently not able to set the WRs he pretends to have set during the last few weeks, and because he plans to train hard on those specific tracks to try to get those WRs for real ?
This is a good point. Maybe when the live meet is set up, we could compile a list of what we want to see to give to Shock (or to me if I end up doing it), so the person meeting up with him knows what to ask for, but Fenner will not know what will be asked of him until the meet. If Fenner is legit, then he should be able to replicate (or come very close to replicating) what we ask for without prior preparation (with enough time of course).
The Gaff wrote on 06/23/11 at 01:21:27:This site is a community, for sure, thats what it has become, evolved into and has developed into but it wasn't always. None of the early sites were communities when people were just submitting times to compete. Back in '97 people chatted but it wasn't like it is now where we've all met, chatted for years and inviting each other to weddings. Which brings me to the point, if a player is meeting all of the validation criteria (and to be frank Fenner is doing more, quite rightly, than anyone else) then he should be on the site. Furthermore, this site (not the MB) is to showcase the best drivers in the world - within our criteria and ruleset.
While Fenner is indeed taking the steps to prove himself (and seems to be not only accepting but enthusiastic to get everything done that I've asked of him), he will naturally be asked for more than anyone else, because of his past. Also, the current MKSC site is not the early days -- the way I see it, the MKSC community is what keeps the site alive, although the two are separate entities. If no one submits PRs, then what news is there to write? Is it really worth it to allow Fenner back with no questions asked despite opposition from veterans who have been around Kart for ages?
I don't completely understand what times removals and all of that accomplishes, nor do I think Fenner should be removed just because some people ask for times removals because of his presence, but maybe they have a point. Like I said before, maybe they just didn't see enough from Fenner. (It's one thing for three or so people to have seen private livestreams via Skype, but it's something entirely different for a public livestream to be up for anyone in this community to view.) And yes, maybe they're just being overly skeptical, but they have a right to feel that way. However it is, I chose to handle the situation as I did because I can clearly see both sides of this.
Yes, Fenner has taken great strides to prove himself, but he also has a past that can't be ignored. If what I have asked of him can alleviate some of the concerns of this community, then it can't be a bad thing, because frankly,
without the MKSC community and its activity on the site, the site falls apart, and when I became an updater (and later the chief times updater), having the site fall apart was NOT what I envisioned. While the site rules dictate what is and isn't allowed on the site, the community has every right to disagree with a decision, whether their concerns are well-founded or not. If we do not allow the community the ability to voice its opinion, the site cannot be improved, and I don't know of anyone that would stay and contribute to a site whose staff didn't at least listen to what they have to say.
It is not the community's job to "prove" that Fenner is cheating absolutely, but it is the community's job to voice any suspicions that they may have so the staff can look into it (which was done in this case). (Also on that note, it isn't Fenner's job to prove absolutely that he isn't cheating, but if he is asked for a specific kind of proof, then it is his responsibility to come up with what was asked for.)
One thing everyone needs to know is this: what I have asked for is what I believe to be the most anyone can ask for out of him, and is more than was asked of him previously. If a live meet cannot satisfy those of you who do not believe Fenner to be legit, there is nothing more that can be done. Let's meet in the middle and get this taken care of, so we can move on to more and better challenges.
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