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Last god standards (Read 542 times)
hahaae
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Re: Last god standards
Reply #25 - 10/07/11 at 19:39:16
 
    Someone please fix the GOD-Titan Standards on Rainbow Road. Nobody here seriously knows how hard it is to sub 0'35"00, because you have to take every risk every lap and hope you don't ruin it all due to nerves. If I could do the GOD-Titan Standards, they'd be something like this (and even these are reasonably hard Standards):

GD: 0'34"75
MA: 0'35"00
MB: 0'35"15
MC: 0'35"35
MD: 0'35"60
ME: 0'35"85
TA: 0'36"00
TB: 0'36"25
TC: 0'36"65
TD: 0'36"85
TE: 0'37"00

    People who don't play at a sub-36 level here really have no appreciation or grasp on how ridiculously hard it is to sub 35.00. To do this, you need at least a 0'12"00, 0'11"50 and a 0'11"48. In case you didn't know, those laps are ridiculously hard to get and are determined by how many pixels early you can use the mushroom before it starts to die before hitting the zipper. Hirano's 0'34"63 was an instant shoo-in to people because of how perfect his driving is. Shota Hirano is by far the highest-skilled MKSC player ever to touch the game, and he said that he could not lower it any further with Toad. The only reason Sebastian Stellmacher was able to beat his time is the slight (and almost unnoticeable) advantage that Bowser has right before the shroomspot, and the fact that he can slightly slide, barely increasing the speed more than Toad when he lands the shroomspot each lap. He also used a slightly faster version of the shroomstrat, which is only effective with Bowser and other heavyweights. In case you've never seen the run, Hirano took the exact same lines (if not better) as the 0'34"48 TAS did. Only having his (flawless) run "07 away from the GOD Standard on a track with minuscule difference between character speed is retarded. If you want to be realistic, there have only been 2 people to ever come remotely close to the GOD Standard, and both of them spent a ridiculous amount of time on the track (Hirano practiced the strategy for 4 years before finally making his famous run). On another note, there have only been 2 people to ever even sub 0'35"00, which the GOD Standard is 0'00"30 away from. Myth A is only 0'00"25 away from 0'35"00, and it is ridiculously hard to cut even 0'00"05 off of Personal Records once you get down into the low 35 area. Why is this? Because each run has to have virtually zero mistakes. The slightest, almost unnoticeable flaw can cost you a cut at the very last turn, for instance.

    So yeah, in the very least, fix the Myth times. Having them "05 apart on a range that is nearly impossible to get to isn't right. For one, simply getting the shroomstrat 3/3 to get a half-decent time is very hard. Now think about doing this at a level where nothing can be played safe (The low 0'35"xx range). Now think about a run with 3/3 SC's where absolute perfection is a must-have (Anything below 0'34"80). Repeatedly doing this to lower a Personal Record is tedious, tiresome, and nearly impossible (not to mention that nobody want to do such a thing). The standards need to be less perfection-demanding, as the person who created them obviously had never even gotten close to anything below 0'35"30, where you just have to pray that you get the tightest possible line, get the lucky slide boost, and pray that a random factor doesn't completely ruin your run.

    To those that want to say something like "Well the best Rainbow Road splits give for 0'34"37, which beats the GOD time by 0'00"33!", then you're mistaken. The laps that Sebastian raced in his BKS laps were miracle laps that shouldn't even be counted. Why is this? Because if you watch the laps at the end, he hugs the wall at the end of each lap. You cannot hug the wall at the end of a lap and get better than a 0'11"65 2nd/3rd lap, making the split invalid on anything other than lap 3. You have to be in the middle so you can just slightly nudge the D-Pad and use the mushroom while doing so. Realistically, Rainbow Road will never go below 0'34"40, and is not likely to even with the use of TAS. Likewise, the best time that a human could ever actually drive would be something about a 0'34"44 run, maybe a 0'34"42 with even more unnoticeable perfection, but that is pushing it quite a bit.

    So yeah, tl;dr: The Rainbow Road GOD Standard is virtually impossible for anyone to reach without spending a year or more solely on practicing Rainbow Road, and the Myth Standards are far too close to the GOD Standard, considering how insanely hard it is to shave off any amount of time at all when you get below around 0'35"20. The standards are highly inconsiderate of the risks, perfection, and stupidly hard shroomstrat and need to be changed for the betterment of the MKSC community.

    High-Quality link to Hirano's Rainbow Road 3lap Former World Record (you can see how identical his lines were to TAS much easier in this video): http://www.nicovideo.jp.am/watch/sm3486497

    (You will have to wait until the very end of the cup to see his run as you cannot skip to another area when using the NicoVideo player; you can also turn off the Japanese annotations, etc., if you prefer)
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Re: Last god standards
Reply #26 - 10/08/11 at 03:47:23
 
@Hahaae, try and go for sub 38 on RVL1 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

It gets harder
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hahaae
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Re: Last god standards
Reply #27 - 10/08/11 at 11:56:42
 
The VL1 WR is nowhere near as perfected as the Rainbow Road. That track would be a complete piece of cake if the ice blocks weren't there.

Not to bash or anything Terrence, but you obviously have no clue how ridiculously hard a sub-35 run is. You have to use all of the same techniques as the WR (this is by no means easy, mind you) and still keep very tight lines. Seb can probably relate to what I mean. Rainbow Road is one of those tracks where you can't grasp the difficulty level until you're at the top of the competition.
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Re: Last god standards
Reply #28 - 10/09/11 at 13:25:19
 
Sorry Ethan, but GOD standards are supposed to be ridiculous hard and RR is a good example of a very nice standard set. Seriously, only a true God of RR should be able to get that time, and Seb proved it is possible. Why the fuck change it...RR has one of the best standard sets imo.

Edit:

hahaae wrote on 10/07/11 at 19:39:16:
    Someone please fix the GOD-Titan Standards on Rainbow Road. Nobody here seriously knows how hard it is to sub 0'35"00, because you have to take every risk every lap and hope you don't ruin it all due to nerves.


That's actually what a God run should take, full risk and full payoff.
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TvK wrote on 05/27/14 at 03:07:54:
You should all listen to Timur. He's an onion.



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Re: Last god standards
Reply #29 - 10/09/11 at 16:57:03
 
At least fix the Myth times. Anything in the 34 range (unless it's like 34.9x or so) is too hard to be Myth. You seriously can't grasp how hard it is to get a low 35 or better because you've probably never even done the strat in a 3/3 run, let alone driven it with good luck and near-perfect lines.
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Re: Last god standards
Reply #30 - 10/21/11 at 12:02:02
 
Sorry Timur but i have to agree with Ethan: if you don't want to fix God, which is perfect for me, at least change Myth and Titan standards, because full risk and full payoff is a thing, full risk with a 35"0x/1x run and achieve a Titan B isn't full payoff, or am i wrong?
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Re: Last god standards
Reply #31 - 10/21/11 at 13:31:12
 
I can't change the standards, I can just ask Alex or someone else to change them. But a change like this can't just be decided like that, I need to talk to some people before a decision can be made. God will in any case stay like it is now though.
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TvK wrote on 05/27/14 at 03:07:54:
You should all listen to Timur. He's an onion.



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hahaae
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Re: Last god standards
Reply #32 - 08/19/15 at 23:46:00
 
Done.            
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