Mario Kart MB - T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming

Mick

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Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming
Reply #25 - 03/15/11 at 13:08:07

Chris wrote on 03/15/11 at 12:38:47:

Detective Spril wrote on 03/15/11 at 08:46:21:

My issue is whether or not we allow back in a player who previously cheated and was caught.

Just curious, but how have you caught him and for what sort of cheating (in which MK)?

I want to know too, but I've heard that the autorities of this board are not allowed to tell how they are catching cheaters (at least on this board but also on the MK64 board during the JG incident), because it would give new keys to potential cheaters to snake into the site without being worried.

Also, wanna heard what Seb thinks about this. I saw him online today but maybe he doesn't really care. (...well, we already know his opinion about this anyway...)

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Detective Spril

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Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming
Reply #26 - 03/15/11 at 14:01:04

Shock wrote on 03/15/11 at 12:30:55:

I don't know if this would settle your discomfort about allowing Fenner back or not April, but here it is anyway:

Quote:

Removed - if a player sends in fake times, or is ranked very high but has no proof and nobody trusts them, they will likely have their scores removed from the site. They would be very welcome to join again once they can show some sort [of] proof and remove the community's doubts.

This is stated publicly on the Player's Page here.

So, almost in a legal sense, we would need to "amend" our "constitution" if we don't let Fenner back.

You do bring up a very good point, Shock. I think the key words here are "remove the community's doubts." I think most people believe he's legit at this point, but at what point is the damage caused by cheating irreversible?

I would hope that if nothing else, Fenner has learned from this, and I like to think he has, and hopefully this will serve as a lesson to anyone else considering being stupid enough to cheat and submit dishonest times to the site.

Edit Way to forget half your post, A...

Mick wrote on 03/15/11 at 13:08:07:

Chris wrote on 03/15/11 at 12:38:47:

Detective Spril wrote on 03/15/11 at 08:46:21:

My issue is whether or not we allow back in a player who previously cheated and was caught.

Just curious, but how have you caught him and for what sort of cheating (in which MK)?

I want to know too, but I've heard that the autorities of this board are not allowed to tell how they are catching cheaters (at least on this board but also on the MK64 board during the JG incident), because it would give new keys to potential cheaters to snake into the site without being worried.

^This. I was around in the community, although not on the MKSC staff at the time, so I wasn't involved in the actual "catching" process, and don't know/remember how he was caught originally. He was caught cheating in both SMK and MKSC if I remember right.

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T-Man Ex Member	Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming Reply #27 - 03/15/11 at 16:35:53 and MKDS is a mystery
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Shock

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Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming
Reply #28 - 03/15/11 at 17:00:22

Detective Spril wrote on 03/15/11 at 14:01:04:

You do bring up a very good point, Shock. I think the key words here are "remove the community's doubts." I think most people believe he's legit at this point, but at what point is the damage caused by cheating irreversible?

> I think the key words here are "remove the community's doubts."

Considering all that Fenner has done to try to remove those doubts, if the doubts have not been removed yet, will they ever be? If the answer is that he has not removed enough doubt, that means no past cheaters will ever be accepted again essentially. In that case, we should rewrite what the Proof page says to "All players caught cheating beyond a reasonable doubt will be removed from the page, and they will not be allowed to return." (Note by the way that there is never going to be a point where all doubt is removed. No matter what a player does, there will always be a possibility for cheating.)

If the answer is that Fenner has provided enough proof, which I objectively claim he has, and we still follow what the standard on the homepage says, Fenner should be allowed back.

> At what point is the damage caused by cheating irreversible?

A person guilty of one cheat is guilty of cheating on all. Once he is proven that he has blown it once, he has blown everything. This places all degrees of cheating under one category: Cheater or Liar. Once in this category, it should not matter what they have done in the past. To be allowed back, they should be put under this amount of scrutiny before being let back, and they need to provide beyond any form of reasonable doubt that they are not cheating. Again, it should not matter to what extent they have been dishonest in the past. This lives up to what we have posted as the standard, and I do not think that there is a point in which the damage is irreversible.

Note, I hope it's clear that I'm not trying to debate and "go against" everything people say against Fenner's case. I suppose in a way I'm acting something of a lawyer for him, but I hope to do so with the end of clearing this all up and bringing it to a conclusion in mind.

P.S., when you said "way to forget half your post, A..." I thought you were talking to me at first. Smiley

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MKSC Non-SC World Champion - 80/80 unique WRs - 600+ total WRs

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T-Man Ex Member	Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming Reply #29 - 03/15/11 at 17:05:38 amen on that brother Lundeen I will do my best to upload EACH video (live, replay, etc.) I got in this fucking game! and ditto with SMK & DS
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humpy92

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Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming
Reply #30 - 03/15/11 at 17:18:42

while my opinion carriers as much weight as a feather, i wanted to put my devils advocates hat on to make a point..

Shock is pushing for T-man to get a second chance (which is cool, i have nothing against the man)

but is this his second chance? second chance makes it sound as though he cheated only the one time. However ( i dont kno any of the details of t-mans history, just using details on this thread) apparently his has already cheated 2 times on MKSC and 2 times on SMK, and is not on the DS page for some reason.
Wouldnt that mean then that this would be his 5th, possibly 6th chance????

just some food for thought

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Shock

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Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming
Reply #31 - 03/15/11 at 17:27:59

If I recall correctly, Fenner told me in his live stream that he had cheated for 2 times, as in 2 records, not two occasions, on MKSC, MKDS, and SMK.

I think they were all around the same time too.

However, this is just a memory, and I do not have a solid recollection or further knowledge of what happened. If it really was multiple occasions though, and this is beyond his second chance within MKSC, this puts a whole new spin on the story.

Could Fenner or another witness to what happened give a detailed account of what exactly took place?

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MKSC Non-SC World Champion - 80/80 unique WRs - 600+ total WRs

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Sami de la SMK

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Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming
Reply #32 - 03/16/11 at 08:59:28

Just to add, SMK he wasnt allowed on at all as of yet, because during the time when he did wrong years ago the records he was claiming were not valid.

I am glad that these procedures are being put into place, the decision will be up to the Management of MKSC for this portion of the validation ultimately. But keep working on this and making suggestions for T-man on what he can play live.

If in the event it is decided yes for his last chance entry, then definitely videos per PR would be required and the "one strike and you are out for good" rule should apply.

As was mentioned earlier, someone who has the similar equipment / setup can do the same thing on Skype for SMK / other karts would be a good step forward. However I would prefer if we get this resolved one game at a time before jumping onto others.

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Guilherme is gonna need that refund... *sighs*

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T-Man Ex Member	Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming Reply #33 - 03/16/11 at 11:32:20 Good plan Sami when I get another SNES controller though (and it may take me a year..i hope not)
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Boom3r

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Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming
Reply #34 - 03/17/11 at 08:55:21

for those who were not around at the time we banned Fenner. Matt's old post sums it up quite good i think

karterfreak wrote on 12/21/07 at 21:11:24:

Posted this a moment ago on the MKSC yahoo group, please approve it Tom Wink

(fixed version, not the original, original didn't link to the yahoo groups post, so made one of my points completely null)

--- In Mario_Kart_Super_Circuit@yahoogroups.com, "Terrence Fenner" <goldensouthcarolinaterrence@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Mario_Kart_Super_Circuit@yahoogroups.com, "Karel van
> Duijvenboden" <vieraldo@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone!
> >
> > Got my first WR (albeit a tie) today. Hopefully not the last one
> haha. Not
> > very surprisingly it's on one of my favourite SMK tracks, retro
> RR. I'll
> > post a vid on the MB soon.

> >
> > RCI2 *7"20*
> > RRR *1'11"36 *- *12"23***
> > **
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > KVD
> >
> No one care about your WR, I got 14 World Records
>
> MC1 - 45"06
> GV1 - 48"13
> CI2 - 49"71
> DP2 - 1'09"78 (me & Pierre were battling on DP2, PC, & MC1)
> DP3 - 1'00"85 {3rd STRONGEST WR}
> KB2 - 44"46 {weakest WR}
> VL1 - 39"76 {2nd STRONGEST WR}
> PC - 44"80 {GOD}
> MC - 53"80 {STRONGEST WR}
> LC - 1'05"45 (somewhat weak)
> YD - 1'03"31 {NO ONE EVER BREAK THE 1'04"XX barrier yet)
> SGB - 46"98 (LEGENDARY WR)
>

This is just another one of the many reasons you SHOULDN'T be allowed on the MKSC site EVER AGAIN.

First of all you cheat. We allowed you back in the site alot more than once, and each time, you have been caught cheating again and again. How is it any different this time?

Second of all what makes you think your [supposed] WR's are better than anyone elses? The only reason you even have the [supposed] WR's that you do are because of ZZMT. And only 4 people can actually do it out of any people that play on the site (Pierre, Luca, Cole, and you). Karel's WR tie is just as good as any of your records. Your [supposed] WR's are not "LEGENDARY" or "THE STRONGEST WR", so don't assume they are. Also, more people care about Karel's WR tie than any of your [supposed] WR's, because Karel is... what's the word again? Oh yeah, LEGIT. His times are alot more credible than yours are.

Last but not least, your an idiot who spams the living shit out of the yahoo group, and you spam everyones youtube videos with your [usually] arrogant comments. Some good examples are in my RKB1 video. Linked here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jisv92ovi34

And just because I know you will delete your comments now (just like you deleted your 29'43 RKB1 video after I beat your time and told you off for calling my stategy your "new strat") I'll quote them in this post.

Quote #1
FennerGuy1992 (1 month ago)
"cheater"

Now this one made me laugh (as I stated on youtube) Your the one banned from the site. I'm credible, your not, and yet your calling me a cheater? Grow up will you?

Quote #2
FennerGuy1992 (3 weeks ago)
"i got 29"16*"

So exactly one week after you called me a cheater, you say you have 29'16. Yet in your Yahoo Groups post linked below, I believe it says that your time is actually 29'43, and that post is only 17 days old, AKA not 3 weeks. So you posted your 29'43 time 17 days ago after you supposedly had 29'16 at least 21 days ago. Also, you dont even have proof of your 29'43 anymore, after you took your video of it down for the reason mentioned above.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Mario_Kart_Super_Circuit/message/4345

Quote #3
FennerGuy1992 (5 days ago)
"I'll tell you what!

LET ME IN THE SITE!!!!!"

More of the spam I was talking about. That's right people! It happens on youtube too!

Quote #4
FennerGuy1992 (3 days ago)
"still suck"

This one shows both your immaturity, and also proves you are an arrogant ass, considering your saying a PROVEN WR "still sucks" even though it's ahead of the 2'nd place time by quite a decent amount. Which btw, you don't see me bragging about it being a good time. I know it's a good time, but I don't go shoving it in everyone's face. A little something called modesty (or humility, take your pick) would really help you out there.

I could go on for alot longer, but I believe I have proven my point.

The one last thing I will say, is that if Fenner is allowed on the site again WITHOUT A LEGIT member going to where he lives and personally seeing his times, then I will ask to have all my times removed, as I am sure many others will do.

Well, all I can say now is Fenner, learn your place. Get a member to personally see your times. Until then, I don't care how much video proof you have, I still think you don't belong on the site.

That's all I have to say, so until next time a long ass rant is needed.

Oh, and btw Karel, awesome WR tie man! The RRR flap is pretty tight! I would love to see you try and go for the RRR 5-lap. Seeing that one beaten would make my day.

Cheers everyone,
Matt Ellis

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Shock

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Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming
Reply #35 - 03/17/11 at 09:53:49

That hurt to read. I hope to never see anything like that from you again Fenner.

Interestingly enough though, Fenner came to me last night on Facebook and asked if I could come to his house at 7:15. Unfortunately I was unable to do it, but I will say that one took me by surprise. He's going all out to prove his legitimacy, and I hope to be able to visit him sometime soon and fulfill the community's wishes to see a person with him live. (I'll see if he can set up a camera and we can livestream perhaps on Justin.tv)

To Fenner, here's a piece of advice: Let your actions speak louder than your words. We know you're really into this game and get.. excited easily, but hold back a little bit. Post the WR time, and perhaps the splits, and let that speak for itself. Don't post "MAX possible" times, spam smileys etc. You'll gradually earn back some respect from the community if you do.

I guess that sums it up. I suppose this will rest as a no-verdict/stalemate until I meet with Fenner in person. I look forward to the day that I do! Smiley

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T-Man

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Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming
Reply #36 - 03/17/11 at 09:57:26

Boom3r wrote on 03/17/11 at 08:55:21:

for those who were not around at the time we banned Fenner. Matt's old post sums it up quite good i think

karterfreak wrote on 12/21/07 at 21:11:24:

Posted this a moment ago on the MKSC yahoo group, please approve it Tom Wink

(fixed version, not the original, original didn't link to the yahoo groups post, so made one of my points completely null)

--- In Mario_Kart_Super_Circuit@yahoogroups.com, "Terrence Fenner" <goldensouthcarolinaterrence@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Mario_Kart_Super_Circuit@yahoogroups.com, "Karel van
> Duijvenboden" <vieraldo@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone!
> >
> > Got my first WR (albeit a tie) today. Hopefully not the last one
> haha. Not
> > very surprisingly it's on one of my favourite SMK tracks, retro
> RR. I'll
> > post a vid on the MB soon.

> >
> > RCI2 *7"20*
> > RRR *1'11"36 *- *12"23***
> > **
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > KVD
> >
> No one care about your WR, I got 14 World Records
>
> MC1 - 45"06
> GV1 - 48"13
> CI2 - 49"71
> DP2 - 1'09"78 (me & Pierre were battling on DP2, PC, & MC1)
> DP3 - 1'00"85 {3rd STRONGEST WR}
> KB2 - 44"46 {weakest WR}
> VL1 - 39"76 {2nd STRONGEST WR}
> PC - 44"80 {GOD}
> MC - 53"80 {STRONGEST WR}
> LC - 1'05"45 (somewhat weak)
> YD - 1'03"31 {NO ONE EVER BREAK THE 1'04"XX barrier yet)
> SGB - 46"98 (LEGENDARY WR)
>

This is just another one of the many reasons you SHOULDN'T be allowed on the MKSC site EVER AGAIN.

First of all you cheat. We allowed you back in the site alot more than once, and each time, you have been caught cheating again and again. How is it any different this time?

Second of all what makes you think your [supposed] WR's are better than anyone elses? The only reason you even have the [supposed] WR's that you do are because of ZZMT. And only 4 people can actually do it out of any people that play on the site (Pierre, Luca, Cole, and you). Karel's WR tie is just as good as any of your records. Your [supposed] WR's are not "LEGENDARY" or "THE STRONGEST WR", so don't assume they are. Also, more people care about Karel's WR tie than any of your [supposed] WR's, because Karel is... what's the word again? Oh yeah, LEGIT. His times are alot more credible than yours are.

Last but not least, your an idiot who spams the living shit out of the yahoo group, and you spam everyones youtube videos with your [usually] arrogant comments. Some good examples are in my RKB1 video. Linked here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jisv92ovi34

And just because I know you will delete your comments now (just like you deleted your 29'43 RKB1 video after I beat your time and told you off for calling my stategy your "new strat") I'll quote them in this post.

Quote #1
FennerGuy1992 (1 month ago)
"cheater"

Now this one made me laugh (as I stated on youtube) Your the one banned from the site. I'm credible, your not, and yet your calling me a cheater? Grow up will you?

Quote #2
FennerGuy1992 (3 weeks ago)
"i got 29"16*"

So exactly one week after you called me a cheater, you say you have 29'16. Yet in your Yahoo Groups post linked below, I believe it says that your time is actually 29'43, and that post is only 17 days old, AKA not 3 weeks. So you posted your 29'43 time 17 days ago after you supposedly had 29'16 at least 21 days ago. Also, you dont even have proof of your 29'43 anymore, after you took your video of it down for the reason mentioned above.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Mario_Kart_Super_Circuit/message/4345

Quote #3
FennerGuy1992 (5 days ago)
"I'll tell you what!

LET ME IN THE SITE!!!!!"

More of the spam I was talking about. That's right people! It happens on youtube too!

Quote #4
FennerGuy1992 (3 days ago)
"still suck"

This one shows both your immaturity, and also proves you are an arrogant ass, considering your saying a PROVEN WR "still sucks" even though it's ahead of the 2'nd place time by quite a decent amount. Which btw, you don't see me bragging about it being a good time. I know it's a good time, but I don't go shoving it in everyone's face. A little something called modesty (or humility, take your pick) would really help you out there.

I could go on for alot longer, but I believe I have proven my point.

The one last thing I will say, is that if Fenner is allowed on the site again WITHOUT A LEGIT member going to where he lives and personally seeing his times, then I will ask to have all my times removed, as I am sure many others will do.

Well, all I can say now is Fenner, learn your place. Get a member to personally see your times. Until then, I don't care how much video proof you have, I still think you don't belong on the site.

That's all I have to say, so until next time a long ass rant is needed.

Oh, and btw Karel, awesome WR tie man! The RRR flap is pretty tight! I would love to see you try and go for the RRR 5-lap. Seeing that one beaten would make my day.

Cheers everyone,
Matt Ellis

@Boom3r, I was a total fool that time! I changed my ways for real now Sad

Quote:

I hope to never see anything like that from you again Fenner.

@Nstride, I won't do that shit again :'(

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Chris

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Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming
Reply #37 - 03/17/11 at 10:03:22

People can really change. Even though sometimes it needs a lot longer than normal. 3 years after all the cheating stuff, he maybe really want to be a respected member of the site. If Andy can meet him the next time and PROOF that he is legit, it would make clear a lot of things. Of course he should still do videos of WR runs after the meeting, but if Andy can tell us that he can come close to his PRs/WRs in some hours or so LIVE, I would trust him 100%.

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T-Man Ex Member	Re: T-Man Performs Live - More, better streaming Reply #38 - 03/17/11 at 13:59:47 I'm going to upload 14 new MKSC videos right now check it out
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Poll
Question: Episode V: Fenner Strikes Back?
Yes - Video for every PR required, and consistent live streaming 11 (50%) No - Fenner had his chance. 11 (50%) Total votes: 22 « Last Modified by: Shock on: 03/12/11 at 09:51:53 »