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Question: Do you believe in God?

Yes (specific religion)  
  50 (23%)
Yes (but no existing religion)  
  15 (6.9%)
Agnostic (Maybe)  
  30 (13.8%)
Atheist (Don't believe)  
  101 (46.5%)
Don't care.  
  21 (9.6%)




Total votes: 217
« Created by: shadow on: 01/26/11 at 07:13:05 »

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God? (Read 23297 times)
Leone
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Re: God?
Reply #1525 - 02/21/14 at 19:28:59
 
Etch wrote on 02/21/14 at 19:22:54:
NicholasRen wrote on 02/21/14 at 16:55:13:
What religion are you?


This topic continues to prove theists don't read any replies here.

Afterall, leaving Plato's cave isn't for everyone.

Leone wrote on 02/21/14 at 16:58:59:
He believes in BLS, head god of the kart gods.


This was just a bad pun Sascha made.

There is a kart bible but we actually know who wrote that!


I thought that was original lol.
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Re: God?
Reply #1526 - 02/21/14 at 21:33:54
 
But this question remains as yet unanswered...

Harvey Kartel wrote on 02/20/14 at 23:09:41:
So why do so many of us seem to be abandoning it [Christianity] now?  Wink


We're on the side of angels, after all. -LeAnn Rimes, 1997

Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers. -Garth Brooks, 1990
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Re: God?
Reply #1527 - 02/21/14 at 21:57:55
 
Harvey Kartel wrote on 02/21/14 at 21:33:54:
But this question remains as yet unanswered...

Harvey Kartel wrote on 02/20/14 at 23:09:41:
So why do so many of us seem to be abandoning it [Christianity] now?  Wink


I am ashamed to admit that unanswered questions used to be a source and support for my belief in a God. An unanswered question is evidence of ignorance. I've seen this sort of thing so blatantly though that it hurts - I got a spam e-mail newsletter yesterday or the day before which featured something along the lines of "Atheists can't answer this!"

A pile of dwindling unanswered questions is not something I would base a belief in, to say the least; a pile of evidence is what stands as a firm source of support.

But I digress. Does it really surprise you, that in the era of Wikipedia, smart phones, etc. etc. that more people are abandoning Christianity now? People are learning. Their cultures are suddenly being expanded and merged with others' from far-off lands. There's an extremely strong correlation between religious belief and one's geography - modern technology is absolutely wrecking that physical constraint, and when the whole mix is thrown together... people realize how mutually ridiculous their beliefs really are.
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Re: God?
Reply #1528 - 02/21/14 at 22:37:49
 
Harvey Kartel wrote on 02/20/14 at 23:09:41:
So I believe there must be some reason why Christianity has basically been the world's dominant religion for two millennia.
There are reasons and they're pretty well known. Tim gave you the most obvious one: conquests. France, Portugal, Spain and England had powerful fleets that have collectively conquered perhaps 90% or more of today's countries, which is why remote places like Africa, the Americas and Pacific Islands are generally Christian. Jesus is probably the most successful viral meme of all time but that doesn't mean he was more than human. The more one spreads a meme, the more mouths touch that meme before passing it on, and more chances that some of those mouths will warp the meme to more than it was.


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So why do so many of us seem to be abandoning it now?
Because today's societies are more prosperous and much better informed than the old ones, and people no longer need to seek comfort in fairy tales about their struggling lives or why their cat died, or what causes thunder to boom. Such places, where people live shitty and/or ignorant lives, still exist and they are always heavily religious because that's their coping mechanism.
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Re: God?
Reply #1529 - 02/22/14 at 04:24:47
 
Etch wrote on 02/21/14 at 19:22:54:
Afterall, leaving Plato's cave isn't for everyone.


+1 for quoting Plato's cave, regardless of the context. It's a great allegory, and one of the most interesting and useful things I've learned at school. It explains a great deal of how society and our minds work with just a few simple sentences, not only in religious contexts but in any context.

AlexPenev wrote on 02/21/14 at 22:37:49:
Because today's societies are more prosperous and much better informed than the old ones, and people no longer need to seek comfort in fairy tales about their struggling lives or why their cat died, or what causes thunder to boom. Such places, where people live shitty and/or ignorant lives, still exist and they are always heavily religious because that's their coping mechanism.


This has been making me wonder for a good while. Do many/most people believe in religion only because it makes them feel better in one way or the other? Could that be considered true faith, or is true faith unselfish faith?
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Re: God?
Reply #1530 - 02/22/14 at 14:21:27
 
Shock wrote on 02/21/14 at 21:57:55:
Does it really surprise you, that in the era of Wikipedia, smart phones, etc. etc. that more people are abandoning Christianity now? People are learning.


We might be learning, but we still haven't learned exactly what the human consciousness experiences after physical death. In the film Escape From Hell, hospital staff placed signs featuring nonsense phrases (e.g. "Ducks be not proud") on the ceiling so that near-death-experiencers would see the signs and remember the words if their experiences were real and not merely hallucinations produced by a dying brain. So when a man came back to life and asked what "Ducks be not proud" meant, nurses knew that he really did go to heaven/hell and back.

Jesus he knows me, and he knows I'm right. -Genesis, 1992

We're a team, Me and God. -Josh Turner & Dr. Ralph Stanley, 2006
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Re: God?
Reply #1531 - 02/22/14 at 14:42:03
 
in an episode of the simpsons, homer becomes a genius and accidentally proves god does not exist while doing his taxes. flanders even double checks it and confirms, though he tries to destroy the evidence.

also, lol@the genesis quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_He_Knows_Me

seriously i do not get how you can expect anyone to listen to you when you can't take 2 seconds to look into information instead of just making it up/throwing it out there
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Re: God?
Reply #1532 - 02/22/14 at 15:05:25
 
^ Still a good song, despite the real meaning being hidden behind the catchy chorus (in fact, I'm reminded of Bruce's "Born in the USA" here, and how most listeners misinterpret its meaning... it's actually about the lack of appreciation given to a returning Vietnam War veteran)

But if you only take the Genesis song's chorus, and ignore the rest of the song (especially the bridge) it's something I can strongly agree with  Cheesy

TV ads do this to pop songs all the time, twisting the meaning that was intended by the songwriters, by only using the most prominent part of the song. Mr. Springsteen knew people would do this to Born in the USA and so does not allow anyone to use his music for advertising purposes (including presidential candidates).

But the other religiously-charged song lyrics I've quoted can be taken at face value.  Wink

I'm just wanting to show how much our culture is permeated by the belief in Jesus, these songs got popular because listeners agreed with what they were saying.  Smiley

In the end, we really live in a Christian world. I'm not sure how some other countries can still use non-Christian calendars; in Saudi Arabia, I can certainly see the Islamic calendar being used for civil or religious purposes, but it could only be an obstacle in a business setting, especially when scheduling international business deals. I could imagine the same for the Jewish, Chinese, and any other ancient calendars still in use in the world. So at the official level, I'd say that it's "February 22 (or 23), 2014" pretty much anywhere you go.
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Re: God?
Reply #1533 - 02/23/14 at 02:53:06
 
Harvey Kartel wrote on 02/22/14 at 15:05:25:
But if you only take the Genesis song's chorus, and ignore the rest of the song (especially the bridge) it's something I can strongly agree with  Cheesy


That's right, pick and choose to make something bend to how you want it to be, just like ignoring the many questions you can't answer and using flawed logic to explain your stance - "because in the Bible it says", "because it's part of our culture".

The use of a universal calendar is simply convenient, and this goes back to my last post where it's simply a result of geography. The christian nations of Europe held such power and spread their influence around, why would we now change what works? Even if it has religious ties, that doesn't make the use of the calendar religious in and of itself, or add any weight to a religious argument. In fact, like many of the non-nonsensical justifications you come with, it undermines them.
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Re: God?
Reply #1534 - 02/23/14 at 15:07:10
 
Timothy wrote on 02/23/14 at 02:53:06:
The Christian nations of Europe held such power and spread their influence around


One could argue that the Christian nations were able to conquer the world because God enabled them to, so that they could spread the Gospel to all continents such that every person on Earth has a chance to accept Jesus and be saved.

The countries who followed other religions couldn't impose them on the New World because God wouldn't have allowed it  Wink
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Re: God?
Reply #1535 - 02/23/14 at 15:43:48
 
Harvey Kartel wrote on 02/23/14 at 15:07:10:
One could argue that the Christian nations were able to conquer the world because God enabled them to, so that they could spread the Gospel to all continents such that every person on Earth has a chance to accept Jesus and be saved.

The countries who followed other religions couldn't impose them on the New World because God wouldn't have allowed it  Wink



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Etch wrote on 03/17/15 at 10:53:56:
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Re: God?
Reply #1536 - 02/23/14 at 16:19:28
 
Shock wrote on 02/21/14 at 21:57:55:
Harvey Kartel wrote on 02/21/14 at 21:33:54:
But this question remains as yet unanswered...

Harvey Kartel wrote on 02/20/14 at 23:09:41:
So why do so many of us seem to be abandoning it [Christianity] now?  Wink


I am ashamed to admit that unanswered questions used to be a source and support for my belief in a God. An unanswered question is evidence of ignorance. I've seen this sort of thing so blatantly though that it hurts - I got a spam e-mail newsletter yesterday or the day before which featured something along the lines of "Atheists can't answer this!"

A pile of dwindling unanswered questions is not something I would base a belief in, to say the least; a pile of evidence is what stands as a firm source of support.

But I digress. Does it really surprise you, that in the era of Wikipedia, smart phones, etc. etc. that more people are abandoning Christianity now? People are learning. Their cultures are suddenly being expanded and merged with others' from far-off lands. There's an extremely strong correlation between religious belief and one's geography - modern technology is absolutely wrecking that physical constraint, and when the whole mix is thrown together... people realize how mutually ridiculous their beliefs really are.


People are learning. Right. (<- sarcasm) When you die, you will meet God, and beg on your knees for his forgiveness. And, from what the Bible says (correct me if I'm wrong, fellow Christians), God won't forgive you if you're already dead.

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Re: God?
Reply #1537 - 02/23/14 at 16:23:03
 
It's not very hard to come up with solutions to challenges when one assumes the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God. Every single thing I talked with my youth pastor about, we could come up with some kind of solution for. But that doesn't mean the solutions didn't have some flavor of absurdity to them and could not be easily supported under the weight of some careful thought.

Harvey, this is why your responses are having pretty much zero impact on me. I could have just as easily come up with your solutions, and frankly probably a few that are better and more easily-argued. However, your responses are practically predictable, and they completely miss the heart of the discussion: why believe the Christian God is real and has been interacting with our world? For example, with the current discussion, how is the path history has taken in any way evidence for the Christian God when the same history could just as easily have unfolded without any divine interventions? Perhaps you could explain why natural societal forces are not just insufficient, but vastly insufficient to explain history's [religious] path? (And, please, sources/citations for information that we might not take for granted!)

TL;DR: Anyone capable of a bit of thinking could probably duct tape together any system of belief that involves an infinite and omnipotent God - the meat of the matter though lies in the demonstration that a belief system can not only resolve challenges, but assert back evidence in support of its positions. Why is one's beliefs probably better reflections of reality than others'?
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Re: God?
Reply #1538 - 02/23/14 at 16:32:45
 
NicholasRen wrote on 02/23/14 at 16:19:28:
When you die, you will meet God, and beg on your knees for his forgiveness. And, from what the Bible says (correct me if I'm wrong, fellow Christians), God won't forgive you if you're already dead.


Yes, I'm quite aware of the terror and torture promised me and other non-believers in not just your religion, but practically every religion, ever. Roll Eyes Sarcasm and threats of this order positively reek of intellectual cowardice. Come now, show me you've done your research before resorting to such low measures.
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Re: God?
Reply #1539 - 02/23/14 at 16:39:20
 
NicholasRen wrote on 02/23/14 at 16:19:28:
When you die, you will meet God, and beg on your knees for his forgiveness.


lol, as someone who has studied history extensively trust me, even if god exists he is not someone i would want to spend 5 minutes(let alone eternity) with anyway. not saying he has a lot of explaining to do, but if he has as much control over what happens on earth as people are saying and is dictating the course of history then it won't be any worse in hell than it would be to be with him.
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Re: God?
Reply #1540 - 02/23/14 at 16:58:46
 


If god told people what to write in the bible, then god sure seemed to change his mind about things.
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I’m stupid.

Rhodechill wrote on 03/07/14 at 13:18:47:
Saw little to no softdrifting in that.
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Re: God?
Reply #1541 - 02/23/14 at 20:23:45
 
Harvey Kartel wrote on 02/22/14 at 14:21:27:
In the film Escape From Hell, hospital staff placed signs featuring nonsense phrases on the ceiling so that near-death-experiencers would see the signs and remember the words if their experiences were real
Surely someone would have tried such an experiment in real life...?

Quote:
In the end, we really live in a Christian world.
It's fair to say we live in a religious world, but 2 in 3 people don't believe Jesus was anything special.

Quote:
One could argue that the Christian nations were able to conquer the world because God enabled them to, so that they could spread the Gospel to all continents
This sounds like a reinterpretation of history to fit the desired narrative. Some of the most successful conquering armies in history were the Mongols, the Macedons, and the Romans, and they don't fit the narrative. The Romans eventually converted to Jesus but right after that they got overrun by the Goths, who weren't Christian.

Quote:
The countries who followed other religions couldn't impose them on the New World because God wouldn't have allowed it
Well, right at this moment the most heavily religious nations are in Africa and South-East Asia. Generally poor countries who are not very conquer-some. What if this trend continues and the developed nations reduce their overreliance on religion?
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Re: God?
Reply #1542 - 02/24/14 at 02:41:52
 
AlexPenev wrote on 02/23/14 at 20:23:45:
Harvey Kartel wrote on 02/22/14 at 14:21:27:
In the film Escape From Hell, hospital staff placed signs featuring nonsense phrases on the ceiling so that near-death-experiencers would see the signs and remember the words if their experiences were real
Surely someone would have tried such an experiment in real life...?

Actually, I've heard of at least one hospital where they indeed have something lying on a high shelf, facing the ceiling, so that if someone had an NDE and reports seeing it, it would essentially confirm that this person had a genuine out-of-body experience. If I am to believe the internet, there are actually multiple hospitals that have something similar. So far, no reports of success.





TASPlasma wrote on 02/23/14 at 16:58:46:


If god told people what to write in the bible, then god sure seemed to change his mind about things.


If you're going to take your information from this video, it's only fair that you should also watch this response:




Not to defend the Bible, but to separate fact from interpretation out of context.
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Re: God?
Reply #1543 - 02/24/14 at 08:03:33
 
No one listen to Harvey. There is no correlation between what he's saying and what's actually in the Bible.

TASPlasma wrote on 02/23/14 at 16:58:46:


If god told people what to write in the bible, then god sure seemed to change his mind about things.

These are so taken out of context, you might as well as just start taking random words from random verses and make your own Bible from it.
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Re: God?
Reply #1544 - 02/24/14 at 09:25:37
 
Interesting, my suspicions on that video were correct. It seems like this is done a lot, claiming something, that most people are too lazy to verify. I was going to verify the contradictions video, but couldn't find a bible in my house.
I think the last time I attempted to read the bible, I stopped at the part right after Cain kills his brother (therefore only three people in the book that explains their origin), and without explaining anything, all of the sudden it says "Cain and his wife-" Where the hell did she come from?
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Sorozone wrote on 06/09/11 at 11:35:31:
You'll see it when it's ready.
ALAKTORN wrote on 04/10/18 at 10:03:37:
I’m stupid.

Rhodechill wrote on 03/07/14 at 13:18:47:
Saw little to no softdrifting in that.
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Re: God?
Reply #1545 - 02/24/14 at 09:40:18
 
TASPlasma wrote on 02/24/14 at 09:25:37:
I think the last time I attempted to read the bible, I stopped at the part right after Cain kills his brother (therefore only three people in the book that explains their origin), and without explaining anything, all of the sudden it says "Cain and his wife-" Where the hell did she come from?

Genesis 5:4 - "...And he[Adam] became father to sons and daughters." Genesis isn't specific on exactly when the events between Cain and his brother occurred, but considering Cain was worried his banishment would provoke some to find and kill him, it's likely there were already a large assortment of people living by then.
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Re: God?
Reply #1546 - 02/24/14 at 10:09:55
 
I think it would be cool if there were an RPG based on Exodus, where you get to be Moses and you have to free the slaves from Egypt, lead them through the Desert, and battle the Canaanites for the promised land (that is who they fought, right?).
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Re: God?
Reply #1547 - 02/24/14 at 10:16:32
 
Camster wrote on 02/24/14 at 09:40:18:
it's likely there were already a large assortment of people living by then.



you don't say? it's "likely" but we aren't sure? when exactly is "by then?" can you give us a timeline of where these events fall into, you know, actual recorded history? that whole big account of things that really happened by people who really existed? you say don't listen to harvey then proceed to do the exact same thing he has been doing. believing in god is one thing but i feel like i'm taking crazy pills over here, since when is well known/documented history up for debate?
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Re: God?
Reply #1548 - 02/24/14 at 10:54:10
 
Walter wrote on 02/24/14 at 10:16:32:
you don't say? it's "likely" but we aren't sure? when exactly is "by then?" can you give us a timeline of where these events fall into, you know, actual recorded history? that whole big account of things that really happened by people who really existed? you say don't listen to harvey then proceed to do the exact same thing he has been doing. believing in god is one thing but i feel like i'm taking crazy pills over here, since when is well known/documented history up for debate?

I said don't listen to Harvey because he is representing his views as Christian when they don't harmonize with true Christian values and understandings.

My answer was to TasPlasma, who posed a question under the context of, "If x is true, then how can y be true?". Does the Genesis account contradict itself when referring to Cain's wife? No, it doesn't. Is the Genesis account factual? That's a separate topic that is beyond the scope of my answer to TasPlasma.
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