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Poll Poll
Question: Do you believe in God?

Yes (specific religion)  
  50 (23%)
Yes (but no existing religion)  
  15 (6.9%)
Agnostic (Maybe)  
  30 (13.8%)
Atheist (Don't believe)  
  101 (46.5%)
Don't care.  
  21 (9.6%)




Total votes: 217
« Created by: shadow on: 01/26/11 at 07:13:05 »

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God? (Read 23297 times)
shadow
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God?
01/26/11 at 07:13:05
 
Just a quick poll to see where the kart board is in terms of belief.
Option 1 is for people who have some religious beliefs. Option 2 is for people who think that perhaps religions are man-made nonsense, but believe a conscious being created the universe.
Option 3 is for people who think there are reasons for and against, and don't have a belief either way.
Option 4 is for people who don't think it's likely.
Option 5 is for people who shouldn't bother voting anyway.   Smiley

We might have had a poll like this before, but I forget the results, and it's good to get a fresh look on it. Feel free to start a religious flame thread war too.
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« Last Edit: 02/15/11 at 18:45:17 by Honko »  
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Re: God?
Reply #1 - 01/26/11 at 07:42:38
 
Agnostisizing out of my mind.
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Re: God?
Reply #2 - 01/26/11 at 07:45:16
 
I was raised Catholic, but personally I'm pretty much Agnostic.
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Re: God?
Reply #3 - 01/26/11 at 07:47:39
 
Its a trap fellow agnosticmen. Dont do it!
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Re: God?
Reply #4 - 01/26/11 at 07:49:30
 
don't care imo

If God is real, he should do a better job of establishing his existence so that people will stop blowing themselves up and murdering hundreds of people.



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Re: God?
Reply #5 - 01/26/11 at 08:30:23
 
Here is at the very least a cool story I read:

Quote:
This is a true story from a marine chaplain during the war for iraqi freedom. It is an exerpt from the book A Table in His Presence~ Lt. Carey H. Cash








At one point, our CO considered calling in over the radio the three words that no

commander ever wants to repeat in battle - “Issue-in-doubt.” It means, in all likelihood,

victory is impossible; defeat imminent.  LtCol. Oliver North called it “The worst day of

fighting in the war for U.S. Marines.”  At every corner, we were ambushed.  And it lasted

for nine hours.

But here’s the miracle.  By every assessment, during that nine-hour ordeal, our

battalion should have sustained untold casualties and countless dead.  Over 1,000 RPG’s

were shot at us, during a nine-hour ambush, in a city that we didn’t know.  And what’s

more, most all of our Marines were exposed the entire time as they stood in the top of


their armored vehicles firing back.


But by the end of the day, when the smoke had cleared, only one man had been


killed – Gunnery Sergeant Jeffrey Bohr, a 22 year veteran; killed as he was calling in a


med-evac with one hand and firing his M-16 with the other.  75 were injured - most of

whom would go on to experience full recovery and strength.  The fact is, many, many

Marines should have died that day, but it just didn’t happen.7

Now I suppose there may be some who will say, “What a fluke.  You guys just

got lucky.”  But there is no question, if you ask the Marines who were there - they had

experienced a miracle from God!

You see, two weeks earlier, in a service south of Baghdad, I had shared with the

men a prayer that my wife had learned as a third grader whenever her family went on

road trips together.  And the prayer went like this: “Lord please make the driver aware,

awake, alert and aggressive, and surround us all with four legions of angels at every

corner.”  I thought to myself, “What a fitting prayer for our guys.”  So I shared it with

them as our unit continued to move closer and closer to Baghdad.

I never knew how many men would cling to that promise when the rounds started

flying.  Because the next morning after the fire-fight in Baghdad, as I began to walk

through the palace and talk with the Marines, all I heard was, “Chaplain…Those angels,

your wife talked about, those legions…they were there…surrounding us, protecting us!”

“I should be dead Chaplain!  But God was with me.”

Marines shared with me that they saw rockets coming at them literally curve in midair and go around them, or dive down as of they batted by some unseen hand, and go

under their vehicles, missing them completely.  Countless RPG’s never exploded after

making direct hits on vehicles holding 20-30 Marines each.  One RPG hit a Marine

(Lance Corporal Harnish) square in the head.  I don’t have to tell you what it should have

done.  It never detonated…knocked him clean out, but he is alive and well today.  A

Corporal who manned a gun turret on the top of a vehicle, said that bullets were raining

down all around him (He said he could literally feel the overpressure from the bullets

whizzing past his head).  He was never touched and his vehicle was the only one in his

section of the convoy that was not struck by enemy bullets or shrapnel.  That Corporal

was a self-proclaimed atheist.  I talked to him a few weeks ago, and He and his wife are

now looking for a church to attend.

Staff Sergeant Jackaway’s Humvee took a direct shot from an RPG right through the

driver’s side window.  If ever there was a shot that should have killed everyman in the

vehicle, it was that shot.  But when the RPG came through, it hit the inside of the glass,

exploding out instead of in - Not a single man was injured.  And SSgt Jackway just kept

quoting the 91st Psalm.

After the fight, the Counter-Mech platoon took me to look at their vehicles - bullet

holes riddled through the back, shrapnel holes throughout the floorboard.  These were

vehicles that were filled with men.  Not a single man from that section was injured.

And then there was Staff Sergeant Russi.  He had a bullet enter his helmet just above

his right ear, travel over his head, underneath the skin of the Kevlar, only to stop

embedded in the same spot, above his left ear.

At one point, our entire convoy became totally separated and lost, a potentially deadly

situation.  And yet, the Executive Officer shared with me that, in the end, he believed our

being split up and lost actually worked to confuse the enemy.  Instead of one long

convoy, we were all over the place…moving from every direction.  He concluded, the

Iraqis probably thought they were facing an entire Division!

When I heard him share that, I immediately thought to myself how much that

sounded like the Old Testament story of Gideon - God taking 300 men and making them

look like tens of thousands to the enemy.  Our Commanding Officer, a seasoned combat

veteran, said, “There is no doubt, Someone was watching over us the entire time.”


I personally have been seeking truth and God if he exists for months, and I rest right now on many of the conclusions Christians have reached, but I strongly disagree with them on several other grounds.
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Re: God?
Reply #6 - 01/26/11 at 08:32:18
 


For me, I'm Atheist to the bone Grin
Probably one of the bigger none-believers Wink
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Re: God?
Reply #7 - 01/26/11 at 08:40:41
 
How God works: "When you do things right, people won't know you've done anything at all."

It's from Futurama, where God is a galaxy that speaks binary.
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Re: God?
Reply #8 - 01/26/11 at 09:00:31
 
I do believe in God.

Inb4 cutz comes on here with his sick and twisted idea of "reason" trying to "disprove" people using "logic". Grin
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Re: God?
Reply #9 - 01/26/11 at 09:22:45
 
Shock wrote on 01/26/11 at 08:30:23:
“I should be dead Chaplain!  But God was with me.”

Marines shared with me that they saw rockets coming at them literally curve in midair and go around them, or dive down as of they batted by some unseen hand, and go

under their vehicles, missing them completely.

Quote:
“There is no doubt, Someone was watching over us the entire time.”


Except for Gunnery Sergeant Jeffrey Bohr. God was like "fuck him". God is out there making rockets CURVE IN MIDAIR, saving everyone, but that one guy extra was just too much. Maybe he was an asshole anyway right?
I'm not even going to mention the strangeness of God stepping in to save this bunch of soldiers, and letting 4 and a half thousand other Americans die elsewhere in Iraq, not to mention the Iraqi deaths which nobody cares about.

Posting a nice story about some orphaned girl getting saved by kittens and cured of cancer, and I might have bitten my tongue, but not this.  Grin
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Re: God?
Reply #10 - 01/26/11 at 09:32:09
 
He saved the atheist but not the dude calling in the medic and going rambo shooting his gun with one hand. lol

Do the laws of physics apply to god? I always assumed he could fly. Perhaps he created physics?
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Re: God?
Reply #11 - 01/26/11 at 09:33:51
 
I can assure you, shadow, those same thoughts definitely entered my head. That's why I called it a cool story. Nothing will ever prove God, unless He actually does come out and make himself known beyond even the minutest of doubt.

If anybody is interested to hear why I came to the conclusion of accepting the possibility of God a legitimate endeavor, I would be glad to share. I will of course take into account though that it is only my personal decision coming from the perspective of one worldview from an incomplete spectrum of data. However, I wasn't/am not sure if this kind of thing is what was wanted from this topic, or if shadow wants simple statistics on beliefs.
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Re: God?
Reply #12 - 01/26/11 at 09:40:40
 
No man, interested in everything. Understanding why people believe what they do, or don't believe what they do is always cool. So post whatever. Smiley
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Re: God?
Reply #13 - 01/26/11 at 09:42:17
 
Go ahead NStride.
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Re: God?
Reply #14 - 01/26/11 at 09:42:59
 
believing in God is as stupid as believing there's a society of invisible blue elephants living with us
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Re: God?
Reply #15 - 01/26/11 at 10:11:18
 
If God doesn't exist, then why do we talk about him so much?

Name 1 other thing that doesn't exist that we talk about as much as God.

You can't.

God exists.
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Re: God?
Reply #16 - 01/26/11 at 10:15:03
 
Goose wrote on 01/26/11 at 10:11:18:
Name 1 other thing that doesn't exist that we talk about as much as God.


Santa Claus. The probability of God existing is roughly equal to the probability of Santa Claus existing.
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Re: God?
Reply #17 - 01/26/11 at 10:21:11
 
Okay, thanks for the floor, so to speak. Smiley

First of all, I'll be fair and lay out my worldview. I live in a middle-upper class American home in the suburbs. I was raised in the church, and only recently started to question the existence of God. Therefore, my view will likely have a subconscious bias towards wanting to believe God exists. In fact, that is probably the likely factor as to why I believe what I do today.

Another thing: unlike what seems to me the majority of Christians today, I accept as nearly irrefutable Evolution Theory and the Big Bang. Being a Creationist in my view is like believing in a flat earth.

I will make my argument hopefully simple, and I will choose only 2 subtopics.

1) The origin of the universe

On this matter, I hardly know close to enough about modern physics to understand a naturalistic explanation of how the dimension of time and space came to be. However, with my limited understanding, trying to comprehend anything "before" the big bang is hypothetical. I doubt with space-time tools we'll ever be able to measure any fields in other dimensions, if they exist. In this matter, for me it comes down to believing that the universe came to be as the result of random fluctuation in another dimension we don't know about. I accept this as possible, and not disprovable. On this matter, in my eyes, I think believing there could be a God who envisioned the time-space dimension equally plausible.

The only thing that tips the balance for me is the incredible fine-tuning of the universe. Matter could more than easily exploded, then a wrong physical constant could have ended the universe as we would have known it. This is pushing an argument of design, however, where an argument of infinite universes or a "just-so" argument can give an atheist grounds for his belief. Again though, we have no proof that I know of that there was an infinite number of universes made.

2) The argument from life

This argument stands that life as we know it today is far too complex to have originated by naturalistic means. However, it also has the flaw of the God of the gaps dichotomy. Also, evolution proves that life did evolve from lower, less complex life forms. Again however though, many systems exist that a naturalistic explanation on a biochemical scale seem quite far-fetched. What I believe is this:

The first original life form would have needed complex, minute structures in order to survive. Living material could have evolved from non-living material, but there is as far as I know no way to prove it. This has never been observed, but as I said before, this proves nothing. What tips the scales for me is this estimate by MIT computational quantum physicist Seth Loyd. According to Loyd, in the known physical universe, chance alone is capable of producing 400 bits of prespecified information. This amounts to a sequence of 82 letters and spaces. A single cell has information in it enough to fill 100 volumes of encyclopedias, according to a book I read called "I don't have enough Faith to be an Atheist." Anyway, according to the estimate by Loyd, only the words "To be, or not to be, that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer..." can be produced in the known universe by chance alone. Of course, this does not take natural selection into account, however, I wonder at how much closer to 100 volumes of encyclopedias it would take us.

From the original life form, species clearly evolved. However, since I believe that the original life form came from the works of an intelligent designer, I believe what the Genesis account seems to portray. The account describes "God" making more and more complex organisms. Finally, he chooses to "create" man "in His own image." I think from this standpoint, God has been behind evolution and guiding the process of the progression of life. He finally created us, distinctly different from the rest of the animals, or "in His own image." I take "image" to mean characteristics that God himself has. That is, logic, reason, appreciation of life, etc.

- Anyway, that is why I believe what I believe. Those are arguments from two points, and I have other, less developed arguments too. In each argument, I notice that there is always an alternative to believing "God" did it. I interpret this through my worldview as God allowing us free choice and will in all the decisions we make. (I also consider free will as an attribute of God that He imparted to us when He made us "in His image.")

You are free to believe what you want to believe, and I am sure all my arguments I make here have a rebuttal, but it is my stance on things up to this point. Thanks for reading all of this, if you did. I am equally open to reading and pondering the views of any other individual on this board.

In the end, the argument of "God" comes down to one thing. Did He do a MT or not when He supposedly created everything? It could make all the difference.
Smiley
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Re: God?
Reply #18 - 01/26/11 at 10:38:24
 
Wink lol Wink
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« Last Edit: 02/07/11 at 03:18:11 by Aron Langerak »  

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Re: God?
Reply #19 - 01/26/11 at 10:49:53
 
I don't avidly believe in god, anyone who believes the bible and the crap told in church should be locked away underground for being so retarded. It's really sad to see that humans can be so stupid. Evolution is more where I am at, HOWEVER I believe there is something greater than we can comprehend that started it all, we couldn't just come out of nowhere! I personally try not to argue about my beliefs because it is as pointless as arguing about death, nobody is ever gonna fucking know so stop wasting your time debating.
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Re: God?
Reply #20 - 01/26/11 at 10:50:07
 
@Aron: Interesting point that you seem to make. You would consider me mentally insane for believing what I do through my experiences, simply because you believe differently, and that is, that people should be classified as insane for believing what cannot be proven at the point of solid evidence?

As a side note, an interesting thing that means nothing in the face of logic and evidence, I prayed to God last night. I asked that if He really exists that when I opened the Bible the next time, He would show me why I should continue my belief in Him.

I randomly opened to John 14:16-17. It says,

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it sees Him nor knows him.

Interesting, to say the least. I question God because I cannot test his existence, and I watch dozens of youtube videos that ridicule the belief in God because he cannot be scientifically proven, I pray that He give me a reason why to continue in my belief, and He supposedly shows me this? He says the world rejects Him because he cannot be "seen," i.e. proven scientifically... I will admit I could not believe what I was reading.
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Re: God?
Reply #21 - 01/26/11 at 10:53:22
 
AlexS wrote on 01/26/11 at 10:49:53:
I personally try not to argue about my beliefs because it is as pointless as arguing about death, nobody is ever gonna fucking know so stop wasting your time debating.


I certainly respect your personal choice not to debate about it, but isn't the topic of "God" one of the most intellectually stimulating exercises we can discuss? Simply because in this area, we clearly know far from everything? This would at least help the human race evolve as a species and develop better reasoning and how to cooperate with groups who believe differently than we do, promoting peace.
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Re: God?
Reply #22 - 01/26/11 at 10:53:24
 
The bible is a book full of crap.. Let me write a new one for you and when you open it randomly it will tell you to quit believing Wink
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Re: God?
Reply #23 - 01/26/11 at 10:56:55
 
If it is so full of crap, wouldn't that make it all the more interesting that I opened to those verses? It proves nothing like I said about any "God X" or any god at all, but it is something that has impacted me and my views much like people's near-death experiences do.
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Re: God?
Reply #24 - 01/26/11 at 10:57:03
 
Shock wrote on 01/26/11 at 10:53:22:
AlexS wrote on 01/26/11 at 10:49:53:
I personally try not to argue about my beliefs because it is as pointless as arguing about death, nobody is ever gonna fucking know so stop wasting your time debating.


I certainly respect your personal choice not to debate about it, but isn't the topic of "God" one of the most intellectually stimulating exercises we can discuss? Simply because in this area, we clearly know far from everything? This would at least help the human race evolve as a species and develop better reasoning and how to cooperate with groups who believe differently than we do, promoting peace.


Chyea sure it can be stimulating, but then you get creationists who are thick as mud who try to push their insane beliefs that won't budge even when proved wrong, it just angers me to the point i've decided to stay away from it as much as possible

Of course i do respect harvey and everyone's own beliefs i cannot deny that people are welcome to live their life however they choose, but like i said i find it irritating how brainless some people can be sometimes


There's tons of fucking religions out there presently and have been out there in the past, we can't all be right??? Nobody buries people as mummies anymore does this mean the egyptians were proved to be wrong? No it just means people have changed to more "believable" stories that still cannot be proven. Chances are nobody is right, religion can be a lifestyle but i'm happy to say it is not mine Smiley
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