So there's a LAN center in San Diego that is going to have a live tournament next month. There are no rules in place. I had mentioned to them that I was going to come up with a suggestive ruleset they could possibly use.

I want to run it by everyone here; give me some thoughts on what should be changed.

By the way, the preliminary indicator is that the winner receives $300. I'm not totally certain on that, but that's speculation right now. I think the turnout would be enough to make first place $300 anyway, but ... yeah.

= = =

* -- QUALIFYING: 1 hour, unlimited tries, on a course not announced until tournament day. Top 16 fLaps.

* -- SEEDING: The 16 players are set up in this format

Division 1: 1, 8, 9, 16
Division 2: 2, 7, 10, 15
Division 3: 3, 6, 11, 14
Division 4: 4, 5, 12, 13

Four races, top two advance. In the event of a tie for second, a one-race playoff.

The swiss format of seeding would take place, meaning that players are reseeded for the second round of matches. It would look like this:

Division 5: 1, 4, 5, 8
Division 6: 2, 3, 6, 7

Four more races, top two advance. In the event of a tie for second, a one-race playoff.

Final four: Four more races, with all ties broken by a one-race playoff.

Courses can't be repeated at any time until the finals. Probably drawn out of a hat.

= = =

More specifics

Speed: 150cc
Vehicles: All allowed (Character choice goes in order of high seed to low seed)
CPU: Off
Items: Strategic (aka Basic)

= = =

I have about six courses that would be banned because I think they're too sandbagging of a course; I have it written down somewhere, I'll make note of it here when I find it.

I would do 3Lap times instead of Flap times for qualifying. Why Flap? I might make it down for this if I get the details early enough. $300 would not be a bad day of work playing Mario Kart.

Timothy wrote on 05/07/08 at 00:04:24:

Basic items > non-items.

I'll go through some of the responses here

The tournament would be June 14 about a couple miles from Belmont Park.

In regard to sandbagging courses: To my knowledge, items are awarded based on where you are when you hit the box (like MKDS), not when the roulette wheel ends (like MKDD). You might hit the item box in second place and then jump to first. In this situation in MKDS, you could get 3 mushrooms and that's essentially game over. In the same situation in MKDD, you get a shell. Now, this could get evened out because the POW block is among the Strategic items.

Players per division: I don't think you can have more than 4 per group, unless there's a LAN feature on the Wii (no clue). And I don't think I would want to be a part of that, an eliminator-style tournament.

Qualifying: I don't mind either way. When its flap, then you give people essentially 3 chances per attempt; this is the style that racing leagues use in their qualifying races. Whether people use the mushrooms in the first lap in the game, I don't know. 3lap does reward consistency, so I understand why people want to go that way. If we go 3lap, then we would have to extend the qualifying to about 2 hours.

Camster wrote on 05/07/08 at 09:36:33:


You won that Evo tourney against Husky. I remember him telling about it.

I'd say go 3lap over flap, but with only 1 hour that might not be best.

If only I completed that BSD, it would have been a 4th place for me.

The qualifying time can be changed. I bring up 1 hour because that's what I've done in the past for my tournaments. Anything past an hour and people start getting itchy.

Considering that the majority of people will likely be driving to this, I'd like to see a format where players can play right when they get there.

--GCII

Hey Glenn,

I haven't had much time with mkwii yet, but from what I know, I like the rules. I'm not too far from SD, I may go.

TT Qualification:
I agree about keeping the qualifying time short, like an hour or two. I would prefer 3lap. I think it's better to show speed AND consistency. However, I don't think it will make much of a difference, so I don't really care. Flap works well too and chances are the same people will qualify either way. Any differences are likely to be with people who will lose quickly in the multiplayer matches anyways Like with evo2k, Cam and I dominated the TT qualification and went 1 and 2 in the matches as well. The #12 guy from TT didn't get into the final four or anything.

Are there enough Wiis, games, and TVs to allow people to keep trying repeatedly? If there's only one or a couple, people would have to wait and switch, which wouldn't give players many chances for a clean run. If so, the qualification may need to be extended. Or possibly pick a shorter course to help.

Restricting Courses:
I would consider banning courses with glitch shortcuts from the TT qualification. This way simply knowing a glitch sc doesn't get you through. I think they may be fine for multiplayer matches though, since those types of SCs usually are a big risk and severely penalize you if you mess up. I'm not familiar enough with the courses or SCs to give a list.

I don't think there's anything wrong with sandbagging. However, I agree with you on restricting courses where 1 item usually determines the outcome. SG from mkds is one example. What courses are you thinking about?

I haven't played enough of all the courses yet in time trials to get a firm grasp on what's possible with having just a single mushroom. So my idea of sandbagging courses comes strictly from MKDS, specifically SG. SG was the only course ever banned in any MKDS tourny, so it seems unlikely we'd find another. I'd be interested to see what courses are being considered ban worthy in mkwii and the reasons why.

stelzig wrote on 05/08/08 at 02:46:42:


whoa whoa who. ur preachin to the choir stelzig. im all for rule customization beleive me. i strongly agree that items should be set to basic. but i even more strongly i think items should not be turned off. items are an essential part of the game is all. and to turn them off is to completely change the game. if most people wanna turn em off and compete by all means do so, but dont go around thinkin ur some  kinda mariokart champ when u won. mariokart isnt just a racer. its a vehicle combatant game as well. it would be the equivalent to having a smashbrosmelee tournament where u set the game mode to one button mode, simply cause peach can pull out a bomb-omb at random. special moves are a vital part of that game and yet u can customize it so you dont use them. the point of the matter is that there is a line between customizing rules to reduce a random factor and then there is customizing rules simply cause you dont like an aspect of the game. setting items to strategic reduces random factors; turning items off is just a matter of preference and should not be a reason to turn them off in a tournament.

i do agree with you about sandbagging. if items are on strategic then its almost not worth sandbaging but if you wanna take the risk you should be allowed.

OK, so these were the stages I was going to consider banning because of one of two factors:

1. The stage's hazards are too random and inconsistent
2. The stage allows for blatant sandbagging.

Yes or no?

Dry Dry Ruins
Mario Circuit 3
Desert Hills
Shy Guy Beach
Yoshi Falls

I don't think I would ban Peach Beach because under a versus game, from what I've seen, the in-game hazards are not random enough. You have to be so close to the hazards to get damaged, and by that part, who's fault is that?

And I don't think there are enough item blocks in Mario Raceway to where someone could triple mushroom their way to a big lead or big comeback. So I would allow it.

All other stages are allowed.

Discuss.

--GCII

Jonesy wrote on 05/09/08 at 22:38:29:


With you on that; I hate that course.

The Game II wrote on 05/09/08 at 19:47:16:



Yoshi falls? heh, I have to see the reason behind that one.

I have about 30 minutes before I need to get to a tournament, so if I remember something later, I'll edit it.

Dry Dry Ruins and Desert Hills; both stages I think have too many shortcut capabilities to where someone could just hold 3 mushrooms and boost on by for a big lead.

Mario Circuit 3; not as rough as the desert stages, but to me it almost plays like MC1 on MKDS, if you get 3 mushrooms early, you can item farm and grab a huge lead.

Shy Guy Beach; when and where the bombs drop are too inconsistent. And the crabs don't have a set movement; they intentionally try to stop you.

Yoshi Falls; I find that this course is built on having the pole position and navigating the first waterfall. That's it. If someone can avoid being slipstreamed, it's a win. It's almost like FC8 on MKDS; you can't allow that because it's all about who can mt more than the other person.

= = =

I would allow Wario's Goldmine because the hazards aren't random. The bats in the beginning go  left side, then right side, and you can see the train cars and their route before you reach that track.

Yeah, and I would ban Moonview Highway because of the cars.

I should add that since the POW block is in basic, people can lose their items. If that is the case, then I would allow the desert stages and MC3.

--GCII

The Game II wrote on 05/10/08 at 06:23:48:


What shortcut are you talking about on DDR? The only real spots for shroom usage are through the sand in the tunnel, over the sand in the big chamber on laps 2 and 3 and through the rocky area before the finish line. Those each only save about .5-1 at most and can be easily countered with another item.

DH has more area from shroom usage (especially the end of the track) but I still don't see why you would disallow this track.

MC3 again, this has been one of my favorite tracks to play on WiFi. There is a lot of strategic elements to MC3 and I would strongly suggest keeping it.

SGB I am with you. But not for the reasons you listed. The track is boring and gives too much of an advantage to those players using the magikruser. On almost every other track the Mach Bike will kill the magikruser. However, on this track and N64 SL, the strategic advantage of using the Magikruser almost makes it unfair. Besides, SGB and SL are really boring tracks.

You've obviously not raced much WiFi on YF then. On most tracks I can almost lap people (I actually lapped someon on CM on WiFi - think of the length of CM) but since YF is such a short track and because there is not much to hide behind in terms of avoiding offensive weapons this track is again very strategic. With that being said, I really dislike this course and I think it's uninteresting and rivals DKM in terms of being borderline undrive-able.

With MH, you have to be kidding me. I rarely ever get hit by cars (ask Tanzer   ) and if you can't avoid the cars (which move in set patterns) you have no business winning a tournament. MH is a GREAT track, one of my favorites.

Instead of banning tracks I would just look for a subset of tracks that are fun to race and have great strategic elements to them.

If I were to choose 20 tracks it would be:

MMM
TF
MC
CM
DKS
DC
KC
DDR
MH
BC
RR

RMR
RDS
RWS
RDH
RDKJP
RMC
RMC3
RPG
RBC