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Chrono Krysster II
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Re: updated
Reply #75 - 04/10/06 at 14:26:38
 
davincentcode wrote on 04/09/06 at 02:11:13:
Chrono Krysster II wrote on 04/07/06 at 11:05:36:
Afflicted for the too large text for translation into English for me  Embarrassed

Perhaps that Simon will want to do it well for me ? (thank you Simon, if you accepts)  Wink Wink


Ca me rend fou...

Le TOP, mais c'est pas moi qui fais les régles, c'est d'avoir ceci :

1- WRs non-SC (C'est comme le NBT pour SMK)

2- WRs non-SC with LB (C'est les ex-WRs non-SC de yahoo...)

3- WRs SC (la dedans y'a tout le reste, SC, Trick, Glitch, LB ou pas... le reste quoi !)

-Que pensent les japonais de tout ca ?

-Pourquoi de vrai WRs avec LB sur des 5Laps ou des flap doivent passer "à la poubelle" (c'est presque ca)

-N'importe qui (même le dernier) en catégorie SC peut maintenant détruire certains WRs anciennement non-SC, comme l'exemple du flap de DP1 de Pierre... (grâce au saut au dessus du mur et autres technique possible sur DP1...), l'ex (TRES DUR) WR de Pierre en 8"92 va être destroyed sans aucune difficulté, et je le redis, par n'importe qui...

-Pourtant les ex-WRs non-SC avec les LB, le principe c'est quand même de faire le plus possible le tracé du circuit, l'exemple du flap DP1 de Pierre est encore une fois parfait, il utilise très bien les champis, et il fait du LB, ok, mais il fait bien tout le tracé du circuit...

Non je comprend pas pourquoi c'est ainsi ?

Je le remets donc une petite fois pour la route :

Le TOP, il faudrait... (et je mets sans doute par ordre d'importance)

1er RANKING MKSC: WRs non-SC (C'est comme le NBT pour SMK) --> Et c'est donc la nouvelle catégorie, et qui est très très très bien, moi aussi je trouve que ca aurait du être fait depuis longtemps !!

2ème RANKING MKSC: WRs non-SC with LB (C'est les ex-WRs non-SC de yahoo...) --> Et ca ne peut pas disparaitre comme ca.. (joueurs francais, joueurs japonais, autres joueurs...)

3ème RANKING MKSC: WRs SC (la dedans y'a tout le reste, SC, Trick, Glitch, LB ou pas... le reste quoi !) --> C'est un peu comme le 3ème ranking qui existe sur SMK, et qui se retrouve chez Sami, avec la catégorie "trick/glitch"

Ainsi personne n'est oublié, tout-est pris en compte, tout le monde y trouve son bonheur, et peut trouvé la bonne place pour mettre ces records à chaque bon endroits !

-Krys-  Smiley
I can speak a bit of French and I agree Cheesy



Merci !

Modif: Yahoo = Gamefaqs list    Wink
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« Last Edit: 04/10/06 at 14:44:56 by Chrono Krysster II »  

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Re: updated
Reply #76 - 04/10/06 at 17:03:17
 
It's a pleasure for me to help translating what Krysster wrote.  Smiley

Quote:
Ca me rend fou...

Le TOP, mais c'est pas moi qui fais les régles, c'est d'avoir ceci :

1- WRs non-SC (C'est comme le NBT pour SMK)

2- WRs non-SC with LB (C'est les ex-WRs non-SC de yahoo...)

3- WRs SC (la dedans y'a tout le reste, SC, Trick, Glitch, LB ou pas... le reste quoi !)

-Que pensent les japonais de tout ca ?

-Pourquoi de vrai WRs avec LB sur des 5Laps ou des flap doivent passer "à la poubelle" (c'est presque ca)

-N'importe qui (même le dernier) en catégorie SC peut maintenant détruire certains WRs anciennement non-SC, comme l'exemple du flap de DP1 de Pierre... (grâce au saut au dessus du mur et autres technique possible sur DP1...), l'ex (TRES DUR) WR de Pierre en 8"92 va être destroyed sans aucune difficulté, et je le redis, par n'importe qui...

-Pourtant les ex-WRs non-SC avec les LB, le principe c'est quand même de faire le plus possible le tracé du circuit, l'exemple du flap DP1 de Pierre est encore une fois parfait, il utilise très bien les champis, et il fait du LB, ok, mais il fait bien tout le tracé du circuit...

Non je comprend pas pourquoi c'est ainsi ?

Je le remets donc une petite fois pour la route :

Le TOP, il faudrait... (et je mets sans doute par ordre d'importance)

1er RANKING MKSC: WRs non-SC (C'est comme le NBT pour SMK) --> Et c'est donc la nouvelle catégorie, et qui est très très très bien, moi aussi je trouve que ca aurait du être fait depuis longtemps !!

2ème RANKING MKSC: WRs non-SC with LB (C'est les ex-WRs non-SC de yahoo...) --> Et ca ne peut pas disparaitre comme ca.. (joueurs francais, joueurs japonais, autres joueurs...)

3ème RANKING MKSC: WRs SC (la dedans y'a tout le reste, SC, Trick, Glitch, LB ou pas... le reste quoi !) --> C'est un peu comme le 3ème ranking qui existe sur SMK, et qui se retrouve chez Sami, avec la catégorie "trick/glitch"

Ainsi personne n'est oublié, tout-est pris en compte, tout le monde y trouve son bonheur, et peut trouvé la bonne place pour mettre ces records à chaque bon endroits !

-Krys-  



Translation:

"All of this is driving me crazy...

The BEST option, although I'm not the one making up the rules, is to split categories as follow:

1- Non-SC WRs (Equivalent to NBT in SMK)

2- Non-SC WRs with LB (this constitutes the category in which the former Non-SC WRs submitted on Gamefaqs would fit...)

3- SC WRs (this includes everything else that we know of, SC, trick, glitch, whether there is use of LB or not, anything goes!)

-What do the Japanese players think about this?

-Why must genuine 5Laps or flap WR's achieved with LB go by all practical means into oblivion?

-Anyone (even the last ranked player) can now destroy in SC category certain WRs that were formerly Non-SC, for instance Pierre's DP1 flap... (they can do so with the help of the rebound over the wall and other techniques feasible on DP1); the former (VERY TOUGH) WR of Pierre in 8"92 will thus be shattered without any trouble, and I say it again, by virtually anyone...

-And yet the principle underlying former Non-SC WR's with LB still remained to follow as faithfully as possible the original shape of the circuit. The example of Pierre's DP1 flap again illustrates this perfectly, as he uses very judiciously the shrooms, and he does LB driving, yes, but still follows the track during its entire length...

I don't understand why things must be this way?

I thus reinstate it here one last time to ensure that I am being well understood:

At BEST, the site should contain... (and I reckon that I'm enumerating in order from most to least important)

1st MKSC RANKING: Non-SC WRs (Equivalent to NBT in SMK) --> This one represents the new category, which I too find is a very very very good inclusion, that should have been made long ago!!

2nd MKSC RANKING: Non-SC WRs with LB (Former Non-SC WRs that were submitted to Gamefaqs...) --> It just can't vanish like that... (French players, Japanese players, other players...)

3rd MKSC RANKING: SC WRs (SC, trick, glitch, anything goes in this category) --> It's similar to the 3rd "ranking" that exists in SMK, and which we can find on Sami's site, in the "trick/glitch" category

This way, nobody's being forgotten, everything's taken into account, everyone's happy and can find the right place for each of their records to belong!

-Krys-"


My (Simon's) personal opinion on this, to put it in a concise way, goes along the same lines as Krysster's. I truly am by no means a fervant user or defender of the LB (I have attempted it in the past, but up to now have still refused to use it to achieve my PR's), but I still feel Non-NBT WR's with LB(s) should in all fairness not be completely disregarded.
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Re: updated
Reply #77 - 04/10/06 at 23:38:04
 
I think it's too early to speak about a 3rd category non-SC, but with ticking, even if I'm 100% for this one !

This last vid at Retro KB1 definitively shows that it might be SC... Lips Sealed It's 4 times faster than my 0'30"70 with the "non-SC" way ! That is too much... It's not like Cheese Land, or even like Lakeside Park !
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Re: updated
Reply #78 - 04/11/06 at 01:07:29
 
by longboost I take your meaning ticking.

Do you know much effort it would be to make three sites, one for ticking but no lakitu, one for non - sc and one for anything goes?

If the ticking but no sc are on gamefaqs then they can stay there for now. There may end up being another site like the smk players page and the non-nbt page.

I think the rules are pretty straight forward, the DP1 shroom over the wall/bricks/water bit is an SC.

KB1 is explained on another thread.

Again, this site has been engineered with the concept of purifying the driving. Allowing longboosts would be a step backwards from that. People have made it clear that mksc is too glitchy - thats why there is no real sustained competition on the sc side. People enjoy simple and plain racing so thats what we're trying to re-create.

However - i'm not a dictator and with everything as the sites new we can discuss it. I'm sure if i did a poll now that RiRd would be allowed to jump right - but in my humble opinion, if we let that be an exception then more people will question more tracks..
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Re: updated
Reply #79 - 04/11/06 at 03:27:19
 
Thank you very much Simon !  Wink

Well, that all is perfect, and soon records of Japanese with Hirano and Su !  Lips Sealed
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Re: updated
Reply #80 - 04/11/06 at 04:03:05
 
Quote:
Again, this site has been engineered with the concept of purifying the driving.


With this in mind, I don't see how curving around the one corner 5 (or 4.5) times can be considered Non-SC. [KB1]
The others I'll accept, but this one doesn't go well at all with the concept of purifying the driving. I hate to be such a stick, but the ruling is so inconsistent.

Andreas
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Re: updated
Reply #81 - 04/11/06 at 04:54:33
 
+1 Wink

I think it's the only track where we have a big doubt, I think we can discuss here, or even do a poll ! Some shorcuts like CL or LP don't spoil the non-SC driving in my mind, so it's normal to accept them as non-SC, but Retro KB1 I'm still sceptical. Undecided
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Re: updated
Reply #82 - 04/11/06 at 06:07:31
 
Solutions to the problem please? - i've already hightlighted the problem.
.. have you seen sami's run/vid? its pretty obvious, but how else can we enforce a non-sc (which is ideally what I want to implement)

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Re: updated
Reply #83 - 04/11/06 at 09:19:32
 
Why not use the route Nathan posted a picture of? This is the route that has always been considered the Non-SC alternative.

Andreas
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Re: updated
Reply #84 - 04/11/06 at 10:05:22
 
if we allow the kb1 corner cutting what would be considered SC?
in my opinion RR should be going around for the most part too to purify driving... but if ppl like the crazy jumping thats cool (im just jealous i can't seem to do it Sad)
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Re: updated
Reply #85 - 04/12/06 at 01:57:19
 
1) wheres the pic of kb1 you did nathan?
2) lol@nathan - just because you can't do the jumping on RR (btw - hardly anyone can to that level yet) doesn't mean we should take an easier route!
3) although Kb1 doesn't feel non sc because of the shrooming - it is only one track, an exception, should really make it a track where everyone has a similar time and therefore shouldn't make to much of a difference to stats.
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Re: updated
Reply #86 - 04/12/06 at 02:19:59
 
The picture link is only one page back in this topic. But here it is, so you don't need to look for it:
http://www.nathancromwell.com/mksc/kb1.jpg

And I don't really mind what's decided on KB1, but the argument that RiRo can't be allowed because it cuts too much track out doesn't feel very solid in the light of allowing KB1, that's all.

Andreas


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Re: updated
Reply #87 - 04/12/06 at 02:36:59
 
In RiRo everybody can easily notice if one uses the "SC".

In KB1, if you forbid the water's cuts, how can you measure if, in a shroom, someone jumps over 2 pixels of water?
You could reply that 2 pixels is allowed but cutting like the image shoes not.
But how can you distinguish between 2 pixel and 3 pixels?  Tongue


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Re: updated
Reply #88 - 04/12/06 at 02:39:02
 
thats what i was thinking.. so therefore I can't see how we cannot allow it..

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Re: updated
Reply #89 - 04/12/06 at 03:00:08
 
You could simply do like before, and say that you can't reach around the first corner only, which leaves the illustrated route as the most optimal.
This isn't the only case exclusive strat. Think of RP, for instance. People could argue that it shouldn't be SC, because you can just go beside the bricks. Just like you set a rule there, and on SG (prime example!), where we just decided it shouldn't be legal to use the lefthand cut at the start, period. We should have the freedom to make a forced ruling on KB1 as well, if we take ourselves the liberty of making a restriction along the similar lines elsewhere.) Most who have spoken their mind consider going around the first corner SC, and it sure isn't purifying driving in the least, if that is part of the conventionally official ruling.

Andreas
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Re: updated
Reply #90 - 04/12/06 at 08:14:14
 
i think someone should make a poll for KB1 and the options for routes/rules (with pics) and we'll settle it once and for all. Make the poll last at least a week.
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Re: updated
Reply #91 - 04/12/06 at 10:36:44
 
i think it's unanimous that nat's picture is the best strat to avoid lap skip glitches.
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Re: updated
Reply #92 - 04/12/06 at 10:47:00
 
In hiding wrote on 04/12/06 at 01:57:19:
2) lol@nathan - just because you can't do the jumping on RR (btw - hardly anyone can to that level yet) doesn't mean we should take an easier route!


i didn't mean it shouldn't be allowed cause i can't do it... it just seems kind of cheese to allow it on 1 course and other courses have similar cuts that can me made that are not allowed
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Re: updated
Reply #93 - 04/13/06 at 01:38:35
 
but every other course has a wall (other than KB1) so thats why its not the same.
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Re: updated
Reply #94 - 04/14/06 at 01:47:22
 
imo if RR is allowed this way, RP has to be allowed too, not to mention RiR .. still think it should be allowed, haven't seen a KB1 vid yet.. but I think cutting gaps to get laps like 3 secs!! is way too much.. that isn't non-sc anymore

I btw have either bruised my thumb real badly or even broken it when I went to sports last night  Embarrassed so I can't play for a while *again*
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Re: updated
Reply #95 - 04/14/06 at 03:17:17
 
davincentcode wrote on 04/14/06 at 01:47:22:
imo if RR is allowed this way, RP has to be allowed too, not to mention RiR .. still think it should be allowed, haven't seen a KB1 vid yet.. but I think cutting gaps to get laps like 3 secs!! is way too much.. that isn't non-sc anymore

I btw have either bruised my thumb real badly or even broken it when I went to sports last night  Embarrassed so I can't play for a while *again*


I dont understand your logic. RR is allowed because the track imho was built like that for people to master the method which hirano has! I think it was nathan who said its a free-form track hence no walls.  Rird cut is a blatant cut. And you'll cut off 3 secs - which is about the length of the lap in KB1.

I dont mind enforcing the idea everyone has to drive on the island on kb1. But theres going to be massive disputes about if it was touched by 1/2/3 pixels etc. From my perspective, if we can't regulate it easily - then lets not. Theres no much of a difference in allowing this to allowing to be able to shroom over water in Shy guy beech or the bit on LP.
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Re: updated
Reply #96 - 04/14/06 at 05:00:14
 
Tom, the enforced rule should be that you can't circle around the first corner to complete a lap.
As I stated before, this leaves the route in Nathan's picture as the optimal one, so you won't need to use pixel approximaty to estimate whether someone crossed point such and such.
It's the only reasonable way.

And, just to bug you.. SG lefthand jump should be allowed with the lenience shown on RaRo.  Wink J/K. In the other courses, SG being one example, we've stated what's not allowed, and should continue to do so, and the bolded part works well to do that.

Andreas
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Re: updated
Reply #97 - 04/15/06 at 03:01:18
 
sounds good to me!
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Re: updated
Reply #98 - 04/18/06 at 00:30:31
 
For my latest PR at Retro MC4 (1'22"68), you put it on the flap. Grin Correct it please, my PRs on this race are 1'22"68 - 14"33 ! Wink
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Re: updated
Reply #99 - 04/18/06 at 01:10:02
 
Ops... sorry is my fault for sure  Embarrassed
I can't correct it until the evening.

The reason of my error is the format you use to submit times:
when you send your PRs, you should insert any non PR number (like the time saved from previous PR) without the decimal separator (or using a different one):
e.g.
please use
PC 48,00 (-060)   14,10 (-001)
instead of
PC 48,00 (-0,60)   14,10 (-0,01)

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