Thanks Martin! I'll try to make it right now, and if it doesn't work, I'll talk to you via messenger...

Well if the boost in itself is considered Non-NBT, wouldn't the entire boost be regarded to be of the same nature? The boost doesn't become NBT just because it extends into the next lap.

That would make sense, right?

I hope someone (Simon?) will validate this.

Andreas

I guess it's a typo. it should be "not" instead of "now".  It makes more sense that way with the rest of the sentence too.

Alright, I hate to beat a dead horse, but I have to open up a discussion forum based on CI2.  This track isn't the greatest track to try to race Non-NBT, but due to recent videos that I've seen, I can't help but think that the strat that I initially used is more or less identical to the one that Simon uses in his 13"14 vid.

I came here to see if people can unanimously vote for or against the idea of gas releasing in CI2 in order to maintain enough speed to get through the mud lake and get to the other side with "full speed" still intact (you obviously aren't at full speed, but you have more speed than you would had you not released the gas...).

I myself don't view this as "boost abuse" as Simon put it, for I feel that both strats are ridiculously hard to pull off, and that there are no zig-zags required to boost there, and since the lake isn't just an obstacle or a place not intended to drive through (meaning it's basically the track and you have to drive through it unless you're crazy enough to try to drive around it).

Key points to this boost:
-it's a boost gained by the previous turn and released in a manner where you have to do it as soon as you're out of the turn in order to not release it while you're already in the mud
-the boost in question is already considered a Non-NBT boost, therefore releasing the gas is only used as a means to try to keep full speed while exiting the mud

I hope people can weigh the options and see what they think about it.  I know that gas releasing is used primarily in NBT boosts (like MC1, DP1, DP2, DP3, KB2, and a ton of other big boosting tracks), but since CI2 has various strats, I can see where they wouldn't think about using this method for their advantage.

Thanks for your time... Joe

Honestly, I could only ballpark a real f-lap time for me, but I know I've had several laps around 13"05.  My best 5-lap time with this strat is 1'06"43, and my best NBT 5-lap is over 2 seconds faster, with 1'04"29.

Therefore I still think that this boost isn't "abusive", for there are other strats that I use that are extremely faster, which I know isn't a good basis for argument, but case in point, the strat is very similar to an already existing Non-NBT strat.

yeah my strat in PAL was to boost through the mud by going to its left side because its the place where the mud is the thinnest and where we can stay at full speed after the mud thanks to the boost

doing the boost with this method requires a sort of zigzag boost , NOT TO BUILD THE BOOST, BUT TO KEEP IT, AVOID THE DIRTY SAND AND TRIGGER IT FURTHER

i also tried releasing gas but it wasnt very useful, or maybe it was too hard for me

My technique is as follows:

Normal powerslide turn, one countersteer to bring me to the area where Simon crosses the lake (his 13"14 vid), hit the bump (which is there and unavoidable) which launches me into the air.  When in the air, the boost releases and you land into the mud while the boost is still happening.  You're right when you say you release the gas a little over halfway through the boost, and then hit the gas again after you've cleared the lake.

It's insanely hard to get to work properly 5/5, and like I said, my best result with this strat is 1'06"43, which is 2 seconds slower than my best NBT race.  So because of this huge difference in NBT strats, I would consider the first strat mentioned as Non-NBT, but that's just me.

I'd say in a given lap, the gas releasing saves about "10 to "18 when done properly.

Well you already know how I feel Joe
Zigzag boosts are just one of those things that I feel should always be illegal in Non-NBT driving.

Here's, in no particular order, a recapitulation of some major Non-NBT rules issues that have been brought up recently or that remain as yet unsolved. If you want to share your opinion on the NBT nature of any technique, or verify that a time that you have driven can (at least provisorily) be considered Non-NBT, then feel free to refer to this list:

-In MC2 (PAL), a boost over the speed arrows and the double jump that lasts longer than a "normal" boost: Still unsettled, but is currently accepted as Non-NBT despite its NTSC "equivalent" over the bumps in CI1 being NBT. Bound to be rediscussed soon again.

-Boosting around 90° corners in GV1, BC1 and GV3 (first corner) without zig-zag motion: Currently considered NBT, and not quite expected to be requestioned soon.

-Powerslide containing one countersteer movement (left-right-left or right-left-right) around BC1 last corner and BC2 second corner, allowing to stay a little closer to the wall while still generating a boost: Currently considered NBT according to the zig-zag boost definition, but still up for debate or investigation.

-F-lap boost in DP2 (PAL): Currently considered Non-NBT, and not expected to be requestioned soon.

-Boost ending shortly before the finish line, where F-lap boosts are not allowed: Since the extra speed of a boost has been found to last nearly one second after you stop hearing the engine's upper tone, laps such as Jamie's 13"02 in CI2 or even my 13"09 (both videos are available online) may have to be considered NBT. Pierre's lap of 17"63 in BC1 has been classified NBT due to this very discovery, and it may be worth to reconsider the nature of a F-lap boost in DP1 in NTSC as well, knowing about its duration there. Definitely an issue to be discussed in more depth eventually.

-Boost through the large water surface in KB2 that has been obtained without zig-zag powerslide: Currently considered NBT.

-Boost around the last curve of CI2 (NTSC): Currently allowed in Non-NBT, but a little puzzling, still (I personally don't conceive how it could in Non-NBT be pulled off in an advantageous way). Likely to be discussed soon again...

-Gas release in CI2 through mud lake: Currently considered NBT.

-Boost through the left side of the mud lake that allows to cross the entire lake before the boost wears off: Currently considered NBT because of "abusive holding".

-Boost through the right side of the mud lake in CI2 that allows to reach for the thin portion of land between the lake and the dirt before the boost wears off (assuming that no gas release is used): Would fall under the same category as the previous one due to the Non-NBT rule on this matter ("If the place where you release the boost is such that it allows you to cross the entire lake before it wears off, then it is considered abusive, and thus NBT."). However, given that there is very little (if any) actual boost holding involved in this case, this is at the moment up for debate.

-Boost through the mud lake in PAL, without zig-zag powersliding or abusive holding: Would fall under Non-NBT category I guess, given that it is done under the same circumstances as in NTSC.


The reason I wrote the last two in bold characters is that I don't think they've been discussed on this board yet. Pierre and Christophe have indeed recently found that you could pull off a boost around the curve that precedes the lake in CI2 in an identical way to how players have done it for years in NTSC. Additionally, Pierre figured that you could then use this boost to reach for a small portion of land on the right of the lake. The question is whether or not the latter should also be allowed in Non-NBT (as I reckon that the boost itself is, just like in NTSC, Non-NBT material). Pierre and a few people he has talked about it with think that it should be allowed in Non-NBT; as for myself, I'm still undecided. I actually attempted this strategy myself at the same time as I tried the gas release a few weeks ago, but was never able to get it working correctly, essentially because of the weak adherence when you don't release the gas. I thought that if I ever managed to make it work, then I'd probably not feel like it resembles Non-NBT driving in general.

Since this is only my personal feeling though, and based on NTSC experience only, I need to know about the opinion of more people regarding this way to exploit the boost, that is before any decision is taken. Pierre has uploaded a video online for convenience. Here is the link: http://geo314.free.fr/CI2.WMV. I haven't been able to view it yet, so I can't comment. Please give yourself a chance and watch the video before posting your opinion.

If you want to give some inputs on other techniques, then as I said earlier, you are highly encouraged to do so. Also, if you feel that any technique has been left out from the list (this is highly probable), then please let me know, and I'll make sure to add it.

Thank you,
Simon

very good pierre! 8)

Agreed, lakeboost should be NBT...especially if you manage to cross over it without losing speed at all

That would make the course completely different, like KB2 which was also marked as an NBT tech

Whats the best lap that you have gotten with this total mudboost?

The new strat is shit!!

does some-one know, what Kalle's strat was, for his 5-lap WR ?