Mario Kart MB - New idea to rank players

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New idea to rank players
08/10/04 at 13:26:17

Hey guys! Just thought about this.
Alright we rank players on their achievments for their total SMK career. What about if each week, something would be calculate and world ranks would be attribute depending on the players' performances.
I guess this is my golf passion coming out again but in professional golf, players gain points or lose points depending on their result in a tournament. But they don't only calculate one week. The 50 previous weeks, or something like that, are taken in consideration.

Simon's doing something similar in the Non-NBT site with the WIR.. but the idea could go deeper.

I know some complicated mathematical equations would have to be used, I might not be the right guy to speak about this here, I know some of you guys are better with that than me.

What could be taken in consideration: Status of PRs (WRs, important cuts), ranks gain or lost, etc.

Personaly, I think this is more interesting than the SR Score because I think the competition would be better. Every player (almost) would have the chance to be #1 every week, etc. Of course the SR score is always better because it shows the bests in a global way. My idea would show the bests in certain periods of time. If something like that is done, surely archives would be kept so we could see who was ruling over SMK and at which time.

Anyway, just dropping the idea here, any comments, questions or ideas would be appreciate. Wink

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Simon

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Re: New idea to rank players
Reply #1 - 08/10/04 at 16:11:39

Hmm... that could be a very interesting way to rank players.

I guess something similar to the Wir could be used, but that stat itself is far from being perfect even for a 1-week period. Since it is a fully mathematical formula, it doesn't take into consideration human factors, such as the players' efforts to achieve PR's, the characteristic of each track, etc. It also tends to advantage high-ranked players (having WR potential or very near) and lower ranked players (like Master and Pro on the Non-NBT site) who are very quickly climbing to the higher ranks, so like I said those players are generally advantaged over middle ranked players who are slowly but thoroughly working their way higher in the ranking. It is also harder to gain a lot of % when improving on courses where the WR's are almost out of reach (like MC1 in PAL) whereas lowering a time considerably closer to the WR than the previous time was rewards a lot. I guess that's partly why I gave up on the idea of making up charts on best monthly/annual Wir scores. Although the Wir isn't as unreliable as I seem to make it out to be, the best is definitely to not take those percentages too seriously. They're there for fun purpose only.

Anyway, I should post more thoughts on this sometime soon, but yeah, the idea of an alternative ranking based on players' long-term activity and progress really seems appealing!

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rufen Elite Offline 7972 days karting Montreal, Qc. Canada Gender:	Re: New idea to rank players Reply #2 - 08/10/04 at 16:31:26 I didn't mean to take the same formula of the WIR, I just wanted to point that my idea would be similar in a small way. Like you said, there's so many factors we have to take in consideration! Hopefully we can work that out
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Simon King Offline tra la la hit 7998 moles Montréal, Canada Gender:	Re: New idea to rank players Reply #3 - 08/10/04 at 16:51:54 I know you didn't mean to. I just wanted to point out a few of the flaws that such a formula like the Wir one has.
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seb holmiere Guest	Re: New idea to rank players Reply #4 - 08/11/04 at 06:27:41 hmmm the POW/POM/POQ/POY system isnt enough? ok the POW points archive isnt updated since first week of may 2003
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rufen Elite Offline missed 7972 mts Montreal, Qc. Canada Gender:	Re: New idea to rank players Reply #5 - 08/11/04 at 07:09:31 Even if the points would still be calculated. Imagine someone who's always second every week behind someone else. He'd never get POW and what he did wouldn' be credited in any way.
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KVD Titan Offline twitch.tv/smk_machin e helped 7789 people Netherlands Gender:	Re: New idea to rank players Reply #6 - 08/11/04 at 07:12:21 Yes it will definitely improve competition! For the higher ranked players it will take aaaagess to reach the player in front of them on the overall rank. This might take some spur of the moment motivation away. It would in turn be motivating to battle for a monthly rank (much like POM, but based on maths?) 8)
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Re: New idea to rank players
Reply #7 - 10/06/04 at 10:33:57

Hey! I finally decided to get something going with that idea!
I started a World Ranking, attributing points to every player on every update.
If you're not part of the update, you get 0 points. Points aren't specifics, I decide what they are, considering the improvements. But for the most part, a WR is 20 points and a single PR is 3 points.

So I'm currently doing it, I started with the update of april 3rd 2003. I'm working on a 26-weeks system.

Of course I'm not finished! Here's what the World Ranking for the week of October 5th,2003 looks like (NTSC only, sorry pal!)

Rank - Name - Average
1. Martin Morissette - 4.038
2. Simon Laflamme - 3.000
3. Jason Fraser - 2.846
4. Aaron Miarka - 2.154
5. Jamie White - 1.692
6. Tommy Dickinson 1.615
7. Ray Bergstrom 1.577
8. Juan Arevalo 1.500
9. Christophe Paquin 1.423
10. Dean Barnhart 1.231

If you have any questions or comments, please post!

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Simon

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Re: New idea to rank players
Reply #8 - 10/06/04 at 11:39:12

Hey, this is pretty interesting! Cheesy

Some good work, indeed. I'd really be curious to know how the points are assigned, exactly, but this might be a bit picky for you to explain clearly and in details on here, especially if they are partly assigned subjectively.

Anyway, there's one question regarding the system's functioning I'd like to ask you though: Is PR'ing consistency rewarded? For example, does someone who achieves 1 PR/week during 26 weeks get more points than someone who would achieve the same number and kind of PR's within a single week?

On a different thought, I don't think the WR/PR ratio should be as high as 20:3. When I started working with such ranking systems in the past (a few of you might remember thisold site), I'd always be tempted to keep a considerable gap between #1 and #2 and sometimes down to #3-#5 in points assignation, but I don't think this is a good and representative thing really, because the line between a very good PR (top 5 for example) and a WR is just so thin, that it's not worth giving the WR holder that huge of an extra. (plus, WR's are being constantly beaten) Furthermore, a ranking reflecting people's recent PR'ing activity should give more importance to the quality of the PR improvements rather than the quality of the PR itself.

Anyway, as I'm still mostly ignorant of how the ranking works exactly, all these things I said above might seem obsolete to you. If you're already granting like ~15 points to a large PR cut or to a near-WR (in comparison to 20 for a WR, and 3 or something for an "ordinary" PR cut in the low ranks), then you can pretty much ignore what I said in the last paragraph; If not, however, then I think it may be worth a thought.

That being said, I'm surprised to see I'm ranked 2nd to you in the ranking for the April-October 2003 period. If I remember well though, that was a pretty quiet and inconsistent period for the NTSC activity, so that would explain everything.

Simon

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Re: New idea to rank players
Reply #9 - 10/06/04 at 12:01:14

Thanks Simon.

At first, I thought of dividing the total of points by the number of active weeks. But then, the problem you mentionned would have come up. So I decided to assign 0 points for an unactive week and divide totals by 26. Might be kind of unfair for some, but in general I think that's better.

Then, like you said, I just found that the 20:3 ratio was really too high. So I decided to give more points(like 7) for strong Legends/Gods PRs, or PRs done by high-ranked players. But yeah, 20 I think is really too much, I'll probably take it down to 10. Again, there aren't pre-assigned points, it's only my own judgement. I'm doing this for my personnal fun and yours (maybe), it's not official so I don't really care if it's not EXACT.

I'm almost done with April 04 - October 04. I only need to change some WR points, should be done in the next minutes.

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rufen Elite Offline 7972 days karting Montreal, Qc. Canada Gender:	Re: New idea to rank players Reply #10 - 10/06/04 at 12:10:38 NTSC World Ranking April 11th, 2004 - October 3rd, 2004 1. Chris Balch - 5.77 2. Jamie White - 5.15 3. Masakazu Goto - 4.12 4. Toshi Miura - 4.04 5. Martin Morissette - 3.12 6. Oliver Segarra - 2.69 7. Chris Williams - 1.85 8. Simon Laflamme - 1.38 9. Ray Bergstrom - 0.85 10. Christophe Paquin - 0.81
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Crispy King Offline THE SKY IS FALLING 7638 days karting Canada	Re: New idea to rank players Reply #11 - 10/09/04 at 04:12:55 Hey, I like this idea too! Nice work Martin. I'd also be interested in knowing how many points were assigned to each person's PRs
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rufen Elite Offline missed 7972 mts Montreal, Qc. Canada Gender:	Re: New idea to rank players Reply #12 - 10/09/04 at 19:17:57 No problem, I can post the ranking weekly with the points gained (week 1 - active week) and the points lost (27th week - last week we remove).
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Re: New idea to rank players
Reply #13 - 10/19/04 at 16:34:27

NTSC World Ranking
April 18th, 2004 - October 17th, 2004

1. Chris Balch - 5.77 [ 0 points gained - 0 points lost ]
2. Jamie White - 5.15 [ 0 points gained - 0 points lost ]
3. Toshia Miura - 4.04 [ 0 points gained - 0 points lost ]
4. Martin Morissette - 3.46 [ 8 points gained - 0 points lost ]
5. Masakazu Goto - 3.35 [ 0 points gained - 20 points lost ]
6. Oliver Segarra - 2.92 [ 6 points gained - 0 points lost ]
7. Chris Williams - 2.00 [ 4 points gained - 0 points lost ]
8. Simon Laflamme - 1.62 [ 6 points gained - 0 points lost ]
9. Christophe Paquin - 0.81 [ 0 points gained - 0 points lost ]
10. Ray Bergstrom - 0.73 [ 0 points gained - 3 points lost ]
10. Carlos Andre Salles - 0.73 [ 4 points gained - 0 points lost ]

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