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getting closer to figuring out the item code (Read 158 times)
duffjr
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getting closer to figuring out the item code
07/24/04 at 05:16:08
 
i'm just pasting my aim convo of what i did to provide some background:

quantum teleport (12:56:16 AM): and i decided to test out some items using save states
quantum teleport (12:56:17 AM): in match race
quantum teleport (12:56:27 AM): i figured out that no matter how far the 2 players are apart
quantum teleport (12:56:32 AM): the game will return the same item
quantum teleport (12:56:51 AM): so it's distance independent i think
quantum teleport (12:56:58 AM): i haven't tried a lap apart or anything
quantum teleport (12:57:02 AM): i mean i have to run so many tests
quantum teleport (12:57:04 AM): like 100 or something
quantum teleport (12:57:10 AM): to isolate the variables
quantum teleport (12:57:15 AM): ok but that's not why i im'ed you
quantum teleport (12:57:30 AM): i figured out that if you release a red directly over an item box
quantum teleport (12:57:39 AM): you get the red
quantum teleport (12:57:50 AM): but we kind of knew that before but never really confirmed it
quantum teleport (12:58:10 AM): this is match race but i'm pretty sure it applies in battle
quantum teleport (12:58:41 AM): so then i released my banana peel in between 2 question marks
quantum teleport (12:58:46 AM): which is a distance of about 1.5 question marks
quantum teleport (12:59:02 AM): and as long as i released it any time in between those
quantum teleport (12:59:03 AM): i got a red shell
quantum teleport (12:59:24 AM): if i released it right as i was about to hit the item but still not on it i got a red still
quantum teleport (12:59:32 AM): if i released it right on i got a peel
quantum teleport (12:59:52 AM): and if i released it at the very end of the question mark, i got a mushroom
quantum teleport (1:00:02 AM): which shows that the items start to spin once you release your last item
quantum teleport (1:00:09 AM): so i was kind of right last year
quantum teleport (1:00:24 AM): and you get reds more often than other items
quantum teleport (1:00:29 AM): actually reds and greens about the same
quantum teleport (1:00:42 AM): because the spin lasts longer on those items
quantum teleport (1:00:47 AM): well the code, not the actual spin

edit:  that red thing i was talking about couldn't be confirmed in battle.  it just happens often.
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« Last Edit: 07/24/04 at 06:25:31 by duffjr »  

I don't see how talking to god could possibly be comforting. He's just an overpriced psychologist who never gives you a word of advice. —Michael "Godless" Fried
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duffjr
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Re: getting closer to figuring out the item code
Reply #1 - 07/24/04 at 05:18:08
 
not one to backup my information on hearsay:

everything below is tested in battle:

question 1:  when is the item spin code started?
answer 1:as soon as the game is loaded
proof:  i couldn't replicate the results at any time in between the nintendo screen and the is this ok? screen.  this was after about an hour and a half of trying.

answer 2:  exactly as the lakitu traffic light screen is loaded (the physical appearance of the item spin box starts at this time, but the actual code may or may not start before the screen is loaded.
proof:  before, i believed it was either when the screen was loaded, the light turned green, or before i ran over the first item.  when i saved at the character select screen and used the boost start to grab the item straight ahead on course 1 and course 2, i was able to replicate (10 times same item) the results without conflict.  i just used the track designer and was able to edit battle course 2 making two extra question marks (one below player 1's starting position and one two pixels ahead).

question 2:  when is the item variable assigned a random value from the spin code/spin code is temporarily ended?
answer 1:  as soon as you select "(yes)" in the "is this ok?" game mode screen.
proof:  i saved state each time i was able to push b (loading up the 1/2 player option, game mode option, confirmation, character select screen, character select confirmation, course select/confirmation)  i started from the course select confirmation and worked backwards.  this took the majority of the time.

answer 2:  as soon as you select change course, retry, or change driver in the loss screen.
proof:  i saved state at the loss screen.  i was only able to replicate the results (the first item i chose from the same question mark (straight ahead on course 1 and straight ahead on course 2 for player 1) was always the same) while saving state as i selected an option from the loss screen.

question 3 (battle tested only):  are player 1 and player 2's spins controlled by the same line in the code?
answer:  no, there is a delay for player 1
proof:  player 1 and player 2 yield different items >90% of the time when both players start on a question mark.  if the item box is significant to the real code, player 1's item spin starts a frame later.  this can explain why both players will have the same item less than 10% of the time (assuming both players hit their first question marks at the exact same time).

question 4:  can you stop/time which item you get by pushing A when you run over a question mark?
answer:  no (battle and race), the items have been preset at the beginning of the race (battle only).
proof:  i saved state right as i ran over an item.  i let the item box stop by itself, pushed A immediately, and waited 2 seconds before pushing A.  all return the same item.  
i saved state a few pixels before i ran over an item.  if i changed my velocity, i got a different item (sometimes, the red and green will not change, but this is due to the fact that red and greens are more frequent than other items in battle).
for relatively every frame, the item box displays a new item always cycled in the order feather, star, banana peel, green shell, red shell, ghost and mushroom.  however, green shells~33% and red shells~33% are the most frequent, followed by banana peels~13%, and the numbers for the rest are similar 5-10% each (i have the exact stats from 80 games on another computer).  

question 5:  how does the item/spin code work?
answer:  i'm not sure.  what i do know is the item box order is probably not how the code is randomized because i can't predict what item will be randomly assigned at the selection screens before each game.  i might be able to test this in game if i had the time(Ha!)  from the statistics of item frequency, we can probably figure it out.

this isn't the last word on this subject.  there are many other tests to do, especially in match race (because match race is place and maybe course and lap dependent, it will be quite complicated).  grand prix will also be exciting considering 8 different places if anyone wants to find all item chances for all 8 places.  my work probably has errors or needs to be clarified (though i did not create ad-hoc explanations or use circular reasoning no matter how tired i got).

thanks.

p.s.  i found a new move for anyone who enjoys battle mode.  i'll post a video later.

1:10 AM : begin test
9:13 AM : finish tests and post
9:14 AM :  thankful i copied my post before clicking post (message too long)
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I don't see how talking to god could possibly be comforting. He's just an overpriced psychologist who never gives you a word of advice. —Michael "Godless" Fried
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duffjr
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Re: getting closer to figuring out the item code
Reply #2 - 07/24/04 at 05:27:54
 




anyone notice the 2 times will never be the same except the final times in a GP race?  maybe this is why there is never a tie and the game never reads the same place for 2 players (both 1 or both 2, etc.).
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I don't see how talking to god could possibly be comforting. He's just an overpriced psychologist who never gives you a word of advice. —Michael "Godless" Fried
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