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Time difference in PAL versions? (Read 355 times)
KVD
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Time difference in PAL versions?
09/17/03 at 05:22:06
 
Just wonna know if this could be a possibility...or maybe some of you thought of this possibility before?
Could there be a difference between PAL copies of SMK, regarding the speed at which the timer counts or a difference in the character speed or whatever influences Time trial times?

I still haven't banished the thought of this possibility, it's fuelled by flaps not total times. I know all my totaltimes could probably be much faster, but I don't understand why I can't get faster flaps then the ones I have now (MC1 is the one I am talking about now, most of my other flaps could be reasonably improved upon).

I played MC1 a lot (I play the game for 8 years now, intensively started time trialling a few months ago), and when i say a lot this means hour after hour racing ghosts for several days in row.
I find it very odd that I can't get a flap of 12"30, my flap is 12"34 now. Of all those countless tries not one!!!
And no reasonable way to improve my racing lines when I got the 12"34 and checked the replay and raced the ghost.
Isn't this just a little odd? The fact that a 12"30 seems totally normal if you check the PAL players list (there are 38 players there that did get it). There are even players who drive below 12"30 all the time, and i totally believe them btw, but can't see a reason why I can't get a single one of those.
The one thing that totally started me to consider this difference in PAL versions a possibility is a vid file from the proof of times page.
It's from Thorsten fellberg I believe, and it's his 1'02"06 on MC1 with some laps below 12"40.
I personally find a sub 12"40 very hard to do, and on my card it requires near perfect lines to reach.
I don't know if anyone of you could be bothered to check his vid of MC1, but his final lap is a 12"37. (please could someone take a look)
I drove sub 12"40 about 5 times in total and the lines I drove were much better then the lines he had when he drove his 12"37. (look at the way he misses the inner edge of the track in the very last corner for example).
I am totally sure his vid is perfectly real and legal, but I am also pretty sure that a similar line on my card would not have resulted in a 12"37!

Then again, it's only me who has compared the particular MC1 vid from Fellberg and my own flap, so I could be seeing things wrong after all (i doubt it though)
This leaves me with two possible explanations:
1) There is a difference between some PAL SMK copies (I know it sounds unlikely)
2) He (and other karters) use a different technique then me to come out of corners with more speed. I noticed he used more swerve (or whatever it is called)then me when coming out of the 3rd and 4th corner section especially. This can be influenced by the R button and by pressing in the opposite direction (to a certain degree) when coming out of corners.
I did try to use more swerve (in much the same way he did), but it resulted in worse lap times (about 12"50).

So here you go, long story; I know and I am sorry.
But I have this problem and wanted to know if anyone also believes this difference is a possibility or if anyone could somehow convince me of the opposite (the no-difference theory)

Regards and thanks for reading in advance
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KVD
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Re: Time difference in PAL versions?
Reply #1 - 09/17/03 at 06:12:57
 
Also some possible ways of finding out if there is a difference:
-Tape my lap-record, if I drive one (or a sub 12"40), on MC1 and send it to Sami or another SMK GOD. He would recognize what time it would have been on his chart for example. I guess he'd have a clue...
-I travel to UK on a day and race on Sami's cart (if he allows me). Just to see if my times suddenly improve...
This doesn't need to be Sami's card of course as I heard he's very busy at the mo and it might be his chart is actually one of the slower ones! i mean I can't compare my driving skill with Sami's, but I can with Thorsten Fellberg (sorry to keep you involved in my prob, but i need an example. I hope you don't mindSmiley.
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Sim666
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Re: Time difference in PAL versions?
Reply #2 - 09/17/03 at 16:31:30
 
I just watched Thorsten's 1'02"04 MC1 5-lap and eventhough it was a solid consistent race(I personally tend to have a shaky handle of the kart), I could see room for improvements. Now, I don't know how your laps look like. Maybe it makes it feel like your corners are extra tight(and even there, you would still have room for even tighter) though you might rather lose time at recovering straight from them.

Analysing what I saw from Thorsten's driving though, I could say he can cut a decent shot more of his last and 1st corner. From my "experience" though, I would say most players also seem to do 1st corner the way he does, cutting a bit of sand with a single jump. It is important to know you can cut a fairly larger area of sand there, even though it may require exagerating the powerslide that preceeds. He could hug a bit more the white/red lane at 2nd corner aswell, but this is the technical corner of the course, and I must admit it took myself forever before finally getting used to doing this very corner right and tight.

You talked about how he was cutting 3rd and 4th corner, with less powersliding and more quick precise jumps(I think that's what you meant?). This indeed influes how fast your lap will be. You said you were getting slower laps trying that way, but you might not be used to it yet, or it doesn't come as a natural way to drive for you. Just keep practising, and remember you have to stay tight along the whole corner and recover straight from it generally with a single recovery jump for sharp cornering to be efficient.

I'm not sure if what I'm saying there is really helpful. I'm personally a NTSC player and I know both versions really don't act and feel the same in control. I did play on emulator MC1 on the PAL version though, and could get a 12"28 lap. It took me a while to get used to the PAL control and in fact, I think I never really got used to it perfectly. It never really felt natural to me and I generally was trying to "cheat" a bit and do corners the easy way without too much jumps and moves. Thorsten does his 3rd and 4th corner better than I did, but I was more exagerating my tightness when cutting sand on 1st and last corner.

Really, I can tell you all PAL versions run exactly the same way, otherwise they would simply not all be named PAL. I've heard it's possible to hack your SNES so you can make it run at 60Hz(NTSC) speed and therefore convert it in what they call a "SNES turbo" I think, but players would for sure know if they had a SNES turbo. This must also be extremely rare and as obvious and subtle as using game genie codes. In other words: very obvious and not subtle at all.

I'm sorry if this message hasn't helped you much in figuring out what you were doing wrong but really, you're not the first to say your corners look as tight as they could be, and still the fact that you have a 12"3x lap means that they are not as tight as possible, and maybe aswell that you're doing some other parts the wrong way. In any case, practise and driving experience generally ends up being the most helpful way to achieve faster times.
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KVD
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Re: Time difference in PAL versions?
Reply #3 - 09/17/03 at 18:52:47
 
You've helped a lot already thanks! Smiley
It is a bit far-searched to have different PAL versions I know, but I didn't see another option.
Cause when I tried the technique I got even slower times!!! But maybe what you say is true: I have to get entirely used to it first, I guess I was expecting results  too soon.
I do the sand jump in the first corner too, it's not that hard IMO. I don't think I lose speed in the final corner as well. The problem is in the 3th and 4th corner section I guess.
Well I'll keep on trying, and I hope I get it right soon.
This ridiculous idea of different PAL copies has to be banished from my head soon and what cures better then a sub 12"30 lap!

ps: I don't think an Emulator is entirely the same as SNES SMK, right? Still it gives you some clues to what I might have been doing wrong.
A tip from Sami might help as well, considering he drove sub 1'01"00 there without boosting!
I don't know how he did this though, this is way out of anyone's reach.
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Sim666
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Re: Time difference in PAL versions?
Reply #4 - 09/18/03 at 15:38:31
 
An emulator should in theory work and act exactly like a normal SNES. Its use is forbidden on the SMK players site and other time trial sites mainly because it offers several and easier possibilities to cheat. The simple saved states option can allow you to complete a 5-lap time "one part at a time", saving as you manage to do a corner or a serie of corners right in example, until you get a complete "perfect" race.

As for Sami having under 1'01 without boost, well I dont want to disminish his skill there as it really is significant, but I know he did his 1'00"99 by cutting INSIDE the last pipe, which can save you more or less 0"04/lap. I'm not doing that myself yet as I haven't tried it enough(and also cause I haven't played MC1 in ages  Lips Sealed) and I think Jamie might be the only other player who has tried it seriously for a 5-lap PR. Cutting inside the last pipe also makes the coming angle for last turn harder and trickier to do right, so it does requires some practise, skill and experience for it to be really efficient.
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Karel
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Re: Time difference in PAL versions?
Reply #5 - 09/18/03 at 21:49:35
 
I know what you mean with the emulator, it's much easier to cheat or save mid-race and retry  till you get a perfect race.
It's still not entirely the same in the feel though, right?
I mean you don't use a SNES controller do you?
I tried to improve on MC1 with the hopjumping but find it very hard to improve on it the right way.
So I started to use sandboost instead, and a managed to get a 0'12"32 flap with it already.
I still have to perfect the technique to improve my 5-lap with it, though.

ps: I know you don't like sandboosting a lot, do you?
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KVD
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Re: Time difference in PAL versions?
Reply #6 - 09/19/03 at 08:54:43
 
Yay, I reached the GOD standard on MC1 today!
0'12"16!!!

That cured me completely from my fuzzy idea's about timedifference...
I have to admit I didn't improve the proper way though, I just learned how to (sand)boost there properly
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Sim666
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Re: Time difference in PAL versions?
Reply #7 - 09/20/03 at 16:55:26
 
I am using a controller when playing on emulator, though it is a Gravis one and it has 1 joypad and 4 standard boutons. That makes it kinda similar to the SNES one only it doesn't have the start/selects buttons and the shoulder L/R ones Undecided . If you convert the buttons locations to those of a normal SNES controller, I could say I accelerate with Y and jump with B. That's really not the same as using the good old R button, but you end up getting used to it somehow.

Quote:
ps: I know you don't like sandboosting a lot, do you?


No, I don't.  Wink

Oh and btw, you will call me dumb and I am, but I just realized that you already are on the SMK players' site, actually the very active "karelpesfan" from yahoogroups. Yeah, guess I should have figured it out way earlier...  Lips Sealed
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Re: Time difference in PAL versions?
Reply #8 - 09/20/03 at 21:27:53
 
Sim666   wrote on 09/20/03 at 16:55:26:
Oh and btw, you will call me dumb and I am, but I just realized that you already are on the SMK players' site, actually the very active "karelpesfan" from yahoogroups. Yeah, guess I should have figured it out way earlier...  Lips Sealed


lol   Smiley
I guess your Simon laflamme, it didn't take me long to figure out that one Wink Grin
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