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Mario Kart >> Mario Kart Wii >> Changing nationality - Poll
https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1591549609

Message started by Arvo57 on 06/07/20 at 09:06:49

Title: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Arvo57 on 06/07/20 at 09:06:49

Might aswell get this figured out, this is a spiritual continuation to this thread:
https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1550417899

These poll results should, imo, be universal and I will apply the results on both MKL and the PP. Please read below before voting since you cannot change your vote once it's made.

So, recently Victor/Average posted on twitter (https://twitter.com/Averagemkw/status/1269564952370655241), wanting to switch his nationality from Puerto Rico to Spain. Since regional tops are a thing on MKW and we don't really have a rule for stuff like this, I'd like to get this figured out.

So what do we do?

Option 1: Allow (Once)

We let him make the change and allow others to change their nationality once. I don't think anyone wants to let people flip-flop their nationalities all the time (yasu style) so we allow a one-time-only (unless there is a very good reason to make it more than once) switch to change nationalities, if you no longer consider yourself a citizen of that country/immigrate to another country and want to identify with that. This change cannot be backrolled, unless, again, there is a really good reason for it.

Option 2: Disallow

When you join the community, you pick a nationality that suits your current situation, and this is permanent. You cannot change this based on having dual citizenship, immigrating to another country, etc. unless it turns out you actually have no roots to the claimed country (think shiney).

And asking for proof of citizenship is, of course, out of the question. I will personally be voting for option 2, I think letting people change their nationality after picking it would lead to people abusing it.

The poll will be open until Sunday, the 14th of June, 5 PM GMT. I will be keeping the results hidden until that to avoid any drama.

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Olifré on 06/07/20 at 09:12:51

I'd allow this if given sufficient proof. Don't want to see players changing their nationality to a specific country that has weak Top 10 lists just to be featured in them. :-/

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Arvo57 on 06/07/20 at 09:15:24

516645404F5B4C101F290 wrote:

I'd allow this if given sufficient proof. Don't want to see players changing their nationality to a specific country that has weak Top 10 lists just to be featured in them. :-/

Anyone can just make up a story to change their nationality though, it doesn't have to have any concrete proof to back it up

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Olifré on 06/07/20 at 09:18:18

0013170E5456610 wrote:

Anyone can just make up a story to change their nationality though, it doesn't have to have any concrete proof to back it up

Oh yeah, for sure. With proof I mean, real sufficient proof that actually shows you moved country.

I know asking for that info might be a bit too private for some ppl. So if we don't want to go that route, I'd say don't allowed it then.

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by k on 06/07/20 at 09:18:47

If asking for citizenship proof is out of the question, then it's Disallow from me.

It's unfair to the people competing for regional tops and suddenly being booted off by a player from another continent who suddenly felt a need to reconnect with their European heritage (let's be honest this is only going to happen in this direction).

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Master Kek on 06/07/20 at 09:21:58

Note how Cole and Ruso both currently live in the USA but neither of them switched to the USA flag

I say pick the country that best suits your nationality. We don't need a bunch of white people in the Japanese tops even if they actually live there

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Aaron M on 06/07/20 at 09:22:40

I've always been of the opinion that mkw nationallity should be like the World Cup. You can choose any country that you have a connection to. For MKW this would mean being born there, having a family that's ethnically from there, or living there, ect.

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by WhatisLoaf on 06/07/20 at 09:23:17

I'm honestly more of a believer in "allow once" only if there is a good reason for it, and simply being born somewhere doesn't seem like a good reason in my eyes.

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Kjeld on 06/07/20 at 09:27:26

I honestly think in Victor's case it is not appropriate to have him change his nationality. He was not conscious when he lived in Spain and it would be weird for such a person to show up on Spanish tops or even European tops. On the other hand, I can sympathize with other situations where one would like to change one's nationality due to other factors.

For example, let's say you've immigrated to a country and decide to pick that country as your nationality on the leaderboards, while still not sure about the status of your citizenship. You play for a while and then your citizenship gets denied and have to go back to your country of origin. At that point, you'd understandably want to change your country.

Or of course if you moved to another country, I'd say it's valid.

I voted for yes, but I wanted to elaborate on why I voted it.

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Mango Man on 06/07/20 at 09:28:19

Can we just get dual nationality legalized? Its weird swapping between Dutch and Brazilian based on the game I play.

If we dont get dual nationality, I say let a player swap his nationality whenever he wants as long as he can prove hes from there. For example, I can show that I have both a Dutch and Brazilian passport, so I would be able to change from one to the other. I dont think country of residence should be the flag you go under if you're not actually from that country.

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Etch on 06/07/20 at 09:29:00

The quest for CR's is alive and well I see...lol

http://https://i.imgur.com/GLT6b8y.png

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Aaron M on 06/07/20 at 09:31:43

2C3F3B22787A4D0 wrote:

Anyone can just make up a story to change their nationality though, it doesn't have to have any concrete proof to back it up

I understand this could be a problem but since this is just an online video game community i don't think nationality really matters. Regional tops could be a problem but, imo, it would't really matter. If you have a 2:19.432 on MT which is regionals in some areas but not in others, it doesn't really matter. You still have a 2:19.432 on MT regardless of it's placement on the leaderboards.

This is also why im against some national tops by the way (i.e. BNL, Spain, Italy, Latin America, Canada ect.) Newer players would have an insentive to fake their nationality so their time os on the top 10s.

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Qatar22 on 06/07/20 at 09:34:34

This shouldn't be allowed. People are going to abuse this option with various made-up stories in order to be higher ranked in the respective rankings.

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by hahaae on 06/07/20 at 15:25:33

I mean, if it's valid, hard to say. In older games, there's instances where people travel frequently, such as Lafungo. He's from the USA, has lived in Canada, I think France, some other shit, and currently resides with KVD in the Netherlands. However, his nationality has always been kept at USA, since that's the region he started in and where he's actually from.

Hard to say. I'm not gonna cast a vote on this one, because it doesn't affect me.

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Mango Man on 06/07/20 at 22:56:38

I know some people won't really agree with this argument but at the end of the day this is just a game. Why make someone compete under a flag they nolonger wish to? Its not like its the world championships of some million dollar sport ;D We're all just here for fun ::)

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by RosscoXz on 06/08/20 at 00:55:24

393C3336282E5D0 wrote:

Because 90% of the community would then claim to be Japanese 8-)

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Master Kek on 06/08/20 at 05:39:57

Lol he's frozen now. Case closed

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Mango Man on 06/08/20 at 10:16:39

635E4242525E694B310 wrote:

[quote author=393C3336282E5D0 link=1591549609/0#14 date=1591599398]I know some people won't really agree with this argument but at the end of the day this is just a game. Why make someone compete under a flag they nolonger wish to? Its not like its the world championships of some million dollar sport ;D We're all just here for fun ::)

Because 90% of the community would then claim to be Japanese 8-)[/quote]
Just ask for an ID or something lol

Almost everyone on this site uses their full name and has their country of residence public, I doubt an ID or Passport would be asking too much.

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Paul Allain on 06/08/20 at 17:59:13

While I agree that having the option to manually change your location willy nilly could lead to abuse, I also think that saying "No changes ever" is wrong for many many reasons :

- The information is vague in the first place, just saying Country/Nation. I doesn't say Birthplace, which would never change, it doesn't Country of residence, which would validate changes through time, it doesn't say Nationality, so proof of citizenship shouldn't be a requirement as of now, and it doesn't Ethnicity, so "a bunch of white peoples" could be born and raised in Japan, even if very rare.
- Some people are wary of people changing nationality to rank high in National Rankings, but unless there is something I'm unaware of, there is no mechanism to verify the nationality you chose in the first place, so the potential for dishonesty remains the same, and both options remains firmly grounded in trusting others honesty without proof.
- It's a rare occurrence, but what if a country ceases to exist ? Had the game been out back then, people might have been stuck with USSR as a nation even after its collapse, same for East and West Germany. Who knows what can happen in the the world, Crimea's in a disputed state between Russia and Ukraine, Quebec or Catalonia might become sovereign nations, etc... Any of those situations could be explained to and fixed easily by a PP moderator, but they illustrate that a No Change policy is
imperfect.

All those facts make me consider that changing your location should be permitted, via communicating with a moderator. If you want to implement a "proof system", sure, but really, most of this thing is build upon trusting people are honest, so if somebody really wants to fake a nationality to be higher on a meaningless list (as top times would require proof anyway), they might have done so already, and it's sad on them. As somebody pointed out, at the core of it, it's just a fun game...

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Calum Sutherland on 06/11/20 at 07:20:55

Na we shouldnt allow people to change their nationality, I know a certain someone who thinks Canadian tops are in indication of Online skill in some capacity who I know would undoubtedly instantly change his nationality with the shot at saying he has a national record. Yeah basically please dont let John Legends members ruin this community ty

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Mango Man on 06/11/20 at 08:36:35

12303D243C65646564510 wrote:

What if said person can prove they have canadian nationality?

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Arvo57 on 06/14/20 at 08:57:05

aight yeah poll closed ty for contributing to democracy

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Lafungo on 06/18/20 at 04:17:01

I happened to open this topic today and feel the need to respond to the following post given it's about me.

2424244C0 wrote:

When I first joined the PP in 2009, I was actually listed as being from Spain, which is where I was living at the time. This was largely due to the fact that the Joining Info pages tend to refer to the "Country" field as your location. I moved (back) to the USA in summer 2010, and requested the change on all the rankings I had submitted to up to that point. At that point I realized that using country of residence was rather silly, and that using country of citizenship felt far more adequate and representative of how the community perceives a player's listed country. That's why I'm still listed as being from the USA despite having lived in both Canada and the Netherlands in the decade since then.

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by bailey on 06/20/20 at 01:27:56

guys ive actually been lying about my nationality this whole time and would like to rightfully use my one switch to change my nationality to North Korea

gimme my CRs [smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Arvo57 on 06/20/20 at 03:45:16

24272F2A233F460 wrote:

guys ive actually been lying about my nationality this whole time and would like to rightfully use my one switch to change my nationality to North Korea

gimme my CRs [smiley=smokin.gif]

Frozen/Pending Players

http://https://mkwii.com/pics/flags/us.pngBailey - Reason: False Time Submissions (sent Dolphin-made times as legit times)

I dont think that's the only thing you've been lying about [smiley=evil.gif]

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Victor on 06/20/20 at 04:08:40

[smiley=lolk.gif]
nice

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Mango Man on 06/20/20 at 08:28:25

372420396361560 wrote:

[quote author=24272F2A233F460 link=1591549609/0#23 date=1592645276]guys ive actually been lying about my nationality this whole time and would like to rightfully use my one switch to change my nationality to North Korea

gimme my CRs [smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Ketchup on 06/20/20 at 10:36:18

2536322B7173440 wrote:

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by bailey on 06/20/20 at 11:58:42

[smiley=bath.gif]
7063677E2426110 wrote:

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by DankyDog on 06/21/20 at 11:01:02

7063677E2426110 wrote:

Title: Re: Changing nationality - Poll
Post by Master Kek on 09/24/20 at 09:57:36

664A585F4E59606E602B0 wrote:

Lol he's frozen now. Case closed

Lol he's deleted now. Case closed