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Mario Kart MB
https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl Mario Kart >> Mario Kart Wii >> RusoX https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1572775733 Message started by Arvo57 on 11/03/19 at 02:08:53 |
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Title: RusoX Post by Arvo57 on 11/03/19 at 02:08:53 So, thanks to the investigation going on thanks to star's program we were able to identify that RusoX may have used live replay/TAS code to claim a WR back in 2013. On top of this, the ghosts apparently have some sort of illegal inputs, but I could not confirm this because Star's program is not public. More on this will hopefully be made available by the people who found this. He claimed it on this thread - http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1204417758/16350 Note that the message has been edited around an hour after posting, and the two ghosts were set on the same day. This could mean that Ruso edited the message to claim his TAS coded time instead. This also happened before any discussions of not counting the runs due to textures were brought up (as proven by JaS quoting the post fairly soon after and it showing that it indeed showed the .554, not .710) The run was never counted on the rankings or WR history though, since Ruso used textures at the time. Well, at least this is different from the Nagisa case, since Ruso is actually still here to explain himself. I don't want to request any further action yet. I just learned of this half an hour ago and want to put all the facts on the table before talking about any of that. This could be a misunderstanding, there's no reason to go crazy without hearing both sides of the story. Video showing the comparison here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpbo7mNgyaQ&feature=youtu.be Ghosts here: 2:31.554 - http://ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/ghostviewer.php?id=23368 2:31.710 - http://ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/ghostviewer.php?id=29414 |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by ZedR on 11/03/19 at 08:47:04 Idc just find more |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by WL95★Jaxon on 11/03/19 at 13:18:08 Just curious, what does the WR history look like on rBC without RusoX? |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Cole on 11/03/19 at 13:26:16 I looked into it more, and am pretty convinced that he cheated the 2:31.554 run. For background, I will describe the Live Replay TAS code. A variant of this code is what people use to record runs, it basically plays back inputs from the ghost and drives it in real time. The TAS version of this code allows you to activate/deactivate it at certain times, allowing you take over the ghost and correct mistakes. By doing this multiple times you can use this code to cheat and basically have save states. Example: -Set a good lap 1, but fail the run. Save the ghost by playing on a license that doesn't have your best time. -Use the live replay code on that run. Take over the driving after lap 1, get a good lap 2, and save the new ghost. -Use the live replay code again until you get a good lap 3 on that run and save the completed run. You could do these attempts on your main license so the ghost saves to your real top 5. This method is undetectable as long as we never see the ghosts that were used to build up to the completed run. The most publicly available version of the Live Replay TAS Code was for GCN controller only. Now, I will show why it appears that ruso cheated with Live Replay TAS: I checked the inputs for both the 2:31.554 and 2:31.710 runs AFTER they diverge (2:08.5 in game time in the comparison posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpbo7mNgyaQ). The inputs AFTER this point, for both ghosts, suggests that a GCN controller was used. All inputs BEFORE that point appear to be from WiiChuck. To see this for yourself, download the Input Viewer (https://www.mariokartboards.com/threads/ghost-input-display-introduction-and-tutorial.5638/) and watch the ghosts. Up until 2:08.5 (128.5 seconds), the ghosts clearly use WiiChuck since you can see when he wheelies it triggers other inputs such as down trick. Then, after 2:08.5 the wheelie inputs seem more like GCN controller inputs, since it only shows D-pad UP inputs. Therefore, I think he used the Live Replay TAS code to complete both runs, taking over during the lap 3 shroom. This is why both ghosts say they were done with GCN, even though he is a WiiChuck main. This is also why Star's check shows "illegitimate" inputs for these ghosts. Since the first 2.5 laps were originally driven on WiiChuck, and WiiChuck has controller stick inputs that are impossible on GCN (video explaining this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUjS7qWWu9c). A WiiChuck player having GCN live replay copies of their ghosts is not alone evidence of cheating, since it's possible the GCN ghost was made when they or someone else recorded the ghost (though most live replay recorders used a version that doesn't save the ghost). However, if this was the case the ENTIRE run should still be WiiChuck inputs. But in ruso's case, he has two ghosts with the exact same inputs up until lap 3, and both of them have GCN inputs after this point. This strongly suggests he used the live replay TAS code to correct a failed run, then tried to pass the cheated run off as a WR. A potential timeline of events: 2013-06-??: ruso drove a failed run where he got 50.334 (new BKS) + 50.626 then failed on or after the last shroom. This fail was likely played legitimately with WiiChuck and the ghost was saved, however we do not have this ghost. 2013-06-13: ruso decides to cheat a WR, by using the live replay TAS code on this failed run. This means he had to do attempts of getting a good ending on the failed run using the GCN controller. In one of those attempts he gets the 2:31.710 and the ghost is saved. 2013-06-13: On a different license, he does more attempts at getting a good ending and gets 2:31.554. He claims that as WR and uploads a live replay video. Note that this run wasn't counted on the WR page since he used custom textures. 2013-06-??: The 554 run is uploaded to WFC, and is automatically added to the ghost database. 2013-08-01: ruso sets a 2:31.402 (this run might be legit). In order to add the ghost to the database, he uploads his save file to ninrankings. This also adds his 2:31.710 ghost, which must have still been saved on a different license. The 710 ghost is the main evidence that he cheated, and has the same date as the 554 (2013-06-13). 2:31.402 ghost ID = 29385 http://www.ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/ghostviewer.php?id=29385 2:31.710 Ghost ID = 29414 http://www.ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/ghostviewer.php?id=29414 Other ghosts around these IDs are also from ruso (e.g. 29413 and 29415). This suggests they were all added at the same time from his save file (2013-08-01). To me all the evidence points to this run being cheated. For it to be legit the events would have to be something like this: -ruso sets 2:31.554 legitimately with WiiChuck. For some reason, during the end of lap 3 his wheelie inputs don't trigger additional inputs like down trick. -ruso uses the live replay code to record the 2:31.554 run, so a GCN version of the ghost is uploaded to the database. -For some reason, ruso uses the live replay code on the 2:31.554 and saves a ghost which has a different ending (2:31.710). Maybe as a test or something. The 710 would have to be AFTER the 554 otherwise the 554 is cheated. -The wheelie inputs at the end of the 710 run (which must be done with GCN since he used live replay), for some reason, look similar to the wheelie inputs at the end of the 554 run (which must be done with WiiChuck to be legit). Basically, he needs a good explanation as to why he has 2 ghosts with different endings and why both endings seem to have GCN inputs (even though he is a WiiChuck main). I don't see any explanation that makes sense other than he cheated. The times set after this could potentially be legit as he did stream quite a bit of rBC. We need to decide which times to remove from the WR site now, I am wondering what the community thinks should be kept/removed. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by bailey on 11/03/19 at 13:39:45 If these are the only runs that seem to be cheated I'm in favor of not banning him because of the streams and ctgp he has as proof but we need to check more of his runs for cheating because if he's willing to cheat like this he's more likely to cheat in other ways too |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Arvo57 on 11/03/19 at 13:50:41 So yeah, I think it's pretty fair to assume that the run was cheated. The punishment should be the same for any other cheater, I can't see how anything else would be fair. So remove all of his newer WRs from the WR history, only keep the ones before TAS code became publicly available, just like we did with Mander and Jorge? Some of the runs might be legit, but at this point it shouldn't matter. If you cheated before CTGP, all your runs not set on CTGP (and after TAS code) should be removed. That's what we've always done, we can't change what we do just because of who he is. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Batman5112 on 11/03/19 at 14:02:33 [smiley=lolk.gif] ;D |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Lukas on 11/03/19 at 14:03:46 ruso claimed that you knew about this Cole as well when Luke contronted Ruso about this situation. I'm guessing that was a lie. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by bailey on 11/03/19 at 14:28:59 362521386260570 wrote:
I thought Jorge was unbanned and I don't see any reason why Ruso's ctgp times should be removed especially since the only runs believed to be cheated were 6 years ago |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by ALAKTORN on 11/03/19 at 14:30:26 Is this a fucking joke? ;D This community is a shitshow. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Arvo57 on 11/03/19 at 14:35:27 787B73767F631A0 wrote:
I thought Jorge was unbanned and I don't see any reason why Ruso's ctgp times should be removed especially since the only runs believed to be cheated were 6 years ago [/quote] I never said that, Jorge and Ruso will always be able to set runs on CTGP. Ruso's CTGP runs will be counted. Runs set on CTGP will (nearly) always count, apart from the Player's page, which does it's own thing. Ruso has never set a WR on CTGP. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by bailey on 11/03/19 at 14:38:28 7F6C68712B291E0 wrote:
I thought Jorge was unbanned and I don't see any reason why Ruso's ctgp times should be removed especially since the only runs believed to be cheated were 6 years ago [/quote] I never said that, Jorge and Ruso will always be able to set runs on CTGP. Ruso's CTGP runs will be counted. Runs set on CTGP will (nearly) always count, apart from the Player's page, which does it's own thing. [/quote] Ah okay. So anybody that's even been banned can still upload times as long as they're set on ctgp? |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Arvo57 on 11/03/19 at 14:40:05 30333B3E372B520 wrote:
I thought Jorge was unbanned and I don't see any reason why Ruso's ctgp times should be removed especially since the only runs believed to be cheated were 6 years ago [/quote] I never said that, Jorge and Ruso will always be able to set runs on CTGP. Ruso's CTGP runs will be counted. Runs set on CTGP will (nearly) always count, apart from the Player's page, which does it's own thing. [/quote] Ah okay. So anybody that's even been banned can still upload times as long as they're set on ctgp?[/quote] That's what we do outside of Player's Page, yes. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Max28 on 11/03/19 at 15:03:46 I think its clear that the players' page permanent ban still applies here. Personally though I think if its fairly clear that his other runs are not cheated, or at least no evidence to the contrary, then those should count for the world records site since they are legitimate world records. My thought is always that world records driven legit should always be on the site, the site seems to go against its on purpose with arbitrary decisions otherwise. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Arvo57 on 11/03/19 at 15:10:04 7C50490309310 wrote:
That mindset goes against literally every other decision on every cheater, though. We can't know for sure if Ruso's runs are or aren't legit, but we CAN be sure that one (well, two) is. This has always lead to all of the cheater's runs being deleted (apart from the CTGP ones, more recently). I can't see how we can count Ruso's latter WRs, it would be inconsistent with every cheater decision we've made in the past. It just makes no sense to me. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Master Kek on 11/03/19 at 15:29:43 rBC is forever dead :-/ |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by KingAlex on 11/03/19 at 15:47:07 Remove all mkwrs runs set after the cheated run that weren't set live or on CTGP. Don't forget he also lied about a DKJP WR back in the day to "motivate" himself to actually set a proper run. Sorry to bring that up again, people change, look at Jorge. But based on what I've seen and heard on streams he's still very immature and this couldn't happen to a more entitled player ;D Hope Suzuka Circuit stays in the pack forever, brother [smiley=beer.gif] |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Lukas on 11/03/19 at 15:52:48 6D4049547F2C0 wrote:
Suzuka good track |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Master Kek on 11/03/19 at 16:05:12 Remove Suzuka Circuit |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by RockyLight on 11/04/19 at 06:47:39 This just keeps getting better. Not surprised a guy like Ruso pulled this off ;D 69444D507B280 wrote:
Adding to this, he also lied about another supposed WR on rBC (think it was a 2:32.1xx) shortly after I set my first WR on rBC and claimed he "wouldn't upload until sub" but the time was never real. He might have the driving skill required for all his recent times but he's shown all these years that he's also a liar and now a cheater at times. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Master Kek on 11/04/19 at 07:24:34 604C5E59485F6668662D0 wrote:
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by KingAlex on 11/04/19 at 08:22:22 Removing the later runs and greatly changing rBC's history sucks of course but it isn't the end of the world. On rPG, Brett had WRs removed for far less (a banned tech that wasn't even banned at the time set!). I can confidently say his 1:59.043 was easily in the top five strongest WRs with potential to be a forever WR (or at the least, very, very, very long standing). That changed rPG's history forever and we survived. Maintain the same standards across all cheaters. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by MKchouy93 on 11/04/19 at 18:04:00 Remove everything not set on CTGP. Hah, really fucking sad. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by ALAKTORN on 11/06/19 at 11:25:17 4D4B63686F7579313030000 wrote:
Got something to hide, fag? |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Master Kek on 11/06/19 at 11:40:12 15133B30372D21696868580 wrote:
Honoka is a good girl |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Thomas. on 11/07/19 at 07:32:50 Just logging on here to complain about the fact that if I knew the WR was a "509 when i got my 551 on rBC I obviously would've continued for WR.... Beating a 2:30.991 just seemed too daunting to me. If only we knew better back then :-/ Thanks, cheaters. Really appericiated for screwing up the WR competition [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by AM on 11/07/19 at 21:46:39 Removing cheated times and valuing history are 2 of the most important things for MK TTs. However, I’m pretty concerned about how drastically MKWRS keeps itself “credible”. At this pace, I just hope it doesn’t get out of hand. One suggestion I have is actually not to remove the cheated times from the database, only hide them from the Current WRs view and display them with the WRs Snapshot view. Just put a disclaimer, something like “at the time, the evidence of cheating wasn’t fully proven and the majority trusted the cheater. The cheater is now banned but it’s still a noteworthy part of the game’s history”. Since MKWRS seems to care a lot about both history and community opinion, I think this is quite a harmless and useful suggestion. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Batman5112 on 11/07/19 at 22:22:03 3A272D2A312E373F5E0 wrote:
I have to agree with what KingAlex said earlier. We will get used to what the history should have been all along. I don't think it's wise to give cheaters further notoriety via disclaimers. Each of them would have their own little stamp in history, something I doubt Cole wants for the site. It's their own fault. We have to move on with the consequences. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by FY on 11/08/19 at 12:58:46 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D For actual substance, once a cheater, always a cheater ;D dude cheated no shame on wi-fi back in the day, no surprise he was also a cheater in TTs ;D |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Yxshi on 11/09/19 at 03:23:52 What I don't understand is why you all were quick to remove all of Nagisa's times from mkwrs/mkl, including runs set before and after (all of which were not sufficiently proven to be cheated) his cheated time, but have decided to only remove a handful of Ruso's times, keeping a bunch of times which don't even have public ghost files anywhere. I can understand keeping times which were uploaded to CTGP, but that only seems to be the case for one singular time of his (in regards to mkwrs), but why remove his .991, for which a ghost file was available to my knowledge, but keep his 2:32.865 or .442 in the WR history? Sure, that time was set before he cheated his times (as far as we know), but Nagisa was removed completely from the WR history, even though his first WR was obviously set before he cheated his second (though, if he'd had any times uploaded to CTGP, they should've been kept). MKL has only kept his times that were uploaded to CTGP, but MKL doesn't keep track of history, only current times. I feel as though he should be given the same treatment on mkwrs. I mean, why should Ruso recieve different treatment in comparison to Nagisa? |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Arvo57 on 11/09/19 at 03:42:06 7D4B574C4D4F414F240 wrote:
It's actually the same exact treatment. When someone gets banned from mkwrs, the times before the TAS tools required for that region were made public, still stay on, since they deem them as not possible to be cheated. Nagisa had no wrs set before this point, but Ruso did. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've always been under the impression that this is the reason. I don't fully agree with how they handle the situation, but that's just how they've always done it over there. The PAL TAS code was presumably created way later than the NTSC one, so his CM glitch day 1 WRs still count. Again, I'm just trusting that this is right, otherwise I do have a problem with counting the post-2009 ones. As for the leaderboards, we've always removed all non-ctgp times from the cheater there, regardless of how old the times are. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Batman5112 on 11/09/19 at 18:47:05 56607C6766646A640F0 wrote:
1. To remain consistent. Every record dated after the cheated time (barring the ones driven on CTGP) is removed while every record before is subject to removal. 2. The trust is gone. 3. A number of Mander's times also had a ghost available and showed no signs of cheating. To avoid hypocrisy you would need to be questioning why these were removed too. 5A494D540E0C3B0 wrote:
Wait I'm confused. Isn't Guillaume European? He was completing TAS runs as early as December 2009. Then there's MKDasher who began TASing during the summer of 2010, and he resides in the same country as Ruso. Were these TASers just exceptions? Because if not these tools were available. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by FY on 11/09/19 at 21:31:06 47647168646B050 wrote:
1. To remain consistent. Every record dated after the cheated time (barring the ones driven on CTGP) is removed while every record before is subject to removal. 2. The trust is gone. 3. A number of Mander's times also had a ghost available and showed no signs of cheating. To avoid hypocrisy you would need to be questioning why these were removed too. 5A494D540E0C3B0 wrote:
Wait I'm confused. Isn't Guillaume European? He was completing TAS runs as early as December 2009. Then there's MKDasher who began TASing during the summer of 2010, and he resides in the same country as Ruso. Were these TASers just exceptions? Because if not these tools were available. [/quote] They're talking about Wii TAS codes, the only one that was available at the time was slowdown/rapid fire, which are easily detectable, the TAS code came out later on. The people you are talking about used Dolphin for those, and the technology wasn't good enough back then to upload those ghosts to the Wii. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Batman5112 on 11/09/19 at 21:48:48 Ah thanks for the clarification [smiley=lolk.gif] |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by NEO#1 on 11/11/19 at 08:48:58 As i said ages ago, he's a hacker. |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by bailey on 11/13/19 at 00:37:12 http://imgur.com/gallery/4uw8oxy |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Bossy on 12/03/19 at 12:39:32 I love drama, don't you guys too lol ;D |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by ★rusoX on 04/27/21 at 03:09:00 Well sorry for taking too long to shed some light on this. To keep it simple. Yes, the .5 was cheated. However, everything else past that was not. The 402 was literally done live. Afterwards, I quit for 2 years from playing it and then came back again. Why exactly would I have cheated everything past that and have taken a break from 2013-15? Fyi, I only came back cuz Mikey asked me to play for his team, which got me interested again. I cant recall why exactly I decided to do that with the .559, I suppose I was just pissed about that fail and not improving but the damage was done already when it was too late. Take it or leave it, thats kinda up to you whether you want to believe this or not. But thats my side of the story. There is no more to it |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Bynt on 04/27/21 at 05:09:01 6E696F73441C0 wrote:
Cheating in a video game.... yikes |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Mango Man on 04/28/21 at 11:34:31 003B2C36420 wrote:
Cheating in a video game.... yikes [/quote] Cheating in a video game.... yikes |
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Title: Re: RusoX Post by Ketchup on 04/28/21 at 14:07:40 555254487F270 wrote:
i wish rusos wrs after the tased one were counted ): |
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