|
Mario Kart MB
https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl Mario Kart >> Mario Kart Wii >> Nagisa busted https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1572358382 Message started by ZedR on 10/29/19 at 06:13:02 |
|
Title: Nagisa busted Post by ZedR on 10/29/19 at 06:13:02 So Nagisa used Rapid Fire aswell back in the day. I think people missed it in the 2012 cheating affair. Tweet: https://twitter.com/MKRFirestone/status/1188909429699121152 There might be more info aswell. Feel free to post it here if you know something. -- Also there is a new tool that detects unhuman inputs better than the one from the past. I dont know a thing about it. |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by Master Kek on 10/29/19 at 09:25:50 LUL Since he's the one uploading suiryu's BC runs, doesn't that mean suiryu is TAS too? How will the WR history be handled? 4463697F6C5F6C7D79627F0D0 wrote:
who else has been tested? Why do I have to ask so many questions? RockyLight is the true rBC GOAT |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by Vega on 10/29/19 at 14:04:49 From what I've been told, Marco has illegal inputs in some of his ghosts (can't remember which ones). The illegal inputs are from using a GCN controller on Live Replay on a run initially set with Wii Chuck or Wheel. EDIT: After further review the illegal inputs was from others recording some of his ghosts |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by Etch on 10/29/19 at 15:57:00 Please stop living up the joke...lol 1B302622053934023930233A510 wrote:
ffs are we done here yet? lmao http://https://i.imgur.com/5htC2nL.gif |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by Master Kek on 10/31/19 at 07:55:24 506B69616F78734769446F66660A0 wrote:
So he used live replay? And why hasn't Nagisa been removed yet? |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by Vega on 10/31/19 at 13:05:12 @Kek yes that means use of Live Replay. I've only been told this. Somebody will need to look at various ghosts before calling the dude a plain cheater |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by Cole on 10/31/19 at 17:56:03 I have verified that Nagisa's 2:31.942 used Rapid Fire (wheelie input every other frame). It's also clear from the ghost viewer if you watch it frame by frame: http://www.ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/ghostviewer.php?id=14682 Since the input viewer has some bugs, it's important to verify the inputs by looking at the inputs in the decoded ghost file. Myself and others have checked that and verified it's Rapid Fire, example: https://twitter.com/MKRFirestone/status/1188909429699121152 His WRs after that show no signs of cheating. Back in 2012, myself and Maschell caught cheaters using a mix of automated and manual checking. For example, Nooboss was caught from Maschell's automated checker, and some others like Jay were caught by me manually checking ghosts. For Nagisa I definitley checked some of his ghosts and found no signs of cheating. Unfortunately, I only checked his more recent times and missed this 2:31.942 run from 2010. I checked ghosts for pretty much all the top players from that era but mainly just checked a sample of their best times. There hasn't been a mass automated check of the database with all the techniques we know about. The new technique of checking if GCN ghosts have impossible control stick inputs is creative, but I think the traditional live replay check would catch most of those anyways (checking if any 2 ghosts share the same starting inputs, which was used to catch people like Malleo). I guess the only new case it catches is when a GCN player copied a Nunchuck/Wheel ghost when we don't have the Nunchuck/Wheel ghost available. I ran an automated check for live replay on a bunch of the GV2 ghosts a few years ago but didn't find anything new. I thought about running automated checks on the entire database (including for rapid fire) but decided not to spend time doing that, since I didn't really expect much to come out of that. I guess that would have caught Nagisa, who unfortunately slipped through the cracks and was able to set "WRs" as late as 2015 without people knowing about this cheated 2010 run. It's nice that there are other people who are looking at the ghost inputs and discovering new things (apparently it was Star who caught Nagisa). Anyways, all of Nagisa's times have been deleted from mkwrs. The cheated run was his 2nd WR, done in May 2010. Obviously we can not trust any times done after that, even though they show no signs of cheating. It's possible he switched to an undetectable cheating method, like Mander did. For his 1st WR (TF 1:51.547 on 2009-08-30), it's likely that run wasn't cheated since the wheelie rapid fire code wasn't public yet. However, there were other cheat codes that were public at that time, and we don't have the ghost available to check. So I think it's better to remove this time as well. New times that have been added as a result of Nagisa's times being deleted: 2010-08-11: rDS 2'05"523 by Sword - 42"111 42"068 41"344 - https://youtube.com/watch?v=AOh7YStEbhA 2015-05-16: rDS 2'04"942 by Totom - 41"828 41"813 41"301 - https://youtube.com/watch?v=oRZnmZg28Mk 2013-07-22: rBC 2'31"507 by Rusox - 50"547 50"413 50"547 - https://youtube.com/watch?v=YdbTLB0D1fw There still might be more to add. The backup of the deleted times, for reference: Code:
|
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by RockyLight on 10/31/19 at 19:22:15 I said this guy was cheating wheelies way back in 2010. Always knew this little fucker was cheating on rBC. Not surprised. |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by Batman5112 on 10/31/19 at 21:25:21 65495B5C4D5A636D63280 wrote:
It's conceivable the two have conspired together at least once. Still cannot wrap my head why Suiryu's 2:21.070 and 2:20.893 BC are official while the .475 is not, when all 3: 1. Have the same insufficient proof validation. 2. Are dated after the launch of CTGP Revolution. In the wake of Nagisa's exposure, every Suiryu WR uploaded by Nagisa should be removed IMO. There is NO PROOF these records were ever legit. The community only recognized them because Nagisa was trusted. Obviously that trust has been blown out the door, leaving 0 weight and credibility to these four Suiryu WRs. The ghosts are not driven on CTGP. The ghosts are not available on the database. No communication with Suiryu himself to confirm if it was even him who drove them. Need I say more [smiley=lolk.gif] |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by Chrono Krysster on 10/31/19 at 22:52:27 4E144F4D474F451111240 wrote:
ffs are we done here yet? lmao http://https://i.imgur.com/5htC2nL.gif[/quote] http://https://i.imgur.com/t3AwDTy.png Who is next? ::) [smiley=johncleese.gif] [smiley=lolk.gif] |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by Arvo57 on 10/31/19 at 22:59:41 Nagisa has been removed from MKLeaderboards aswell. 6C4F5A434F402E0 wrote:
It's conceivable the two have conspired together at least once. Still cannot wrap my head why Suiryu's 2:21.070 and 2:20.893 BC are official while the .475 is not, when all 3: 1. Have the same insufficient proof validation. 2. Are dated after the launch of CTGP Revolution. In the wake of Nagisa's exposure, every Suiryu WR uploaded by Nagisa should be removed IMO. There is NO PROOF these records were ever legit. The community only recognized them because Nagisa was trusted. Obviously that trust has been blown out the door, leaving 0 weight and credibility to these four Suiryu WRs. The ghosts are not driven on CTGP. The ghosts are not available on the database. No communication with Suiryu himself to confirm if it was even him who drove them. Need I say more [smiley=lolk.gif][/quote] Gonna have to agree here. Suiryu has always been a sketchy player, he's only ever been accepted on the tops because he's been around for a while, if he popped up today he would never be taken seriously. At this point he has the same credibility as Nim did. Now that his only contact in the community has been busted, I think we should at least consider that the guy who was friends with a cheater and already has a sketchy run we don't count, should be banned. The probability of him being a cheater is pretty high, I think it would be foolish to believe him after this. Further discussion would be nice, I'd love to hear more opinions about this. (Funny though, BCWii WR would probably still be like a 2:21.2 without the rivalry between him and DK) |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by hahaae on 11/01/19 at 00:37:46 At this point, I can't help but wonder if there was a period of time where a group of Japanese players deemed rapid fire as "okay" as a means to cut out "RNG" from luck wheelies. I've always kept in contact with Mander on Twitter, and I forget the DM (I can try to find it; my memory also may be serving me wrong, here), but he still seemed to disregard the use of rapid fire as cheating, deeming that more of a "western" thing (which is cause for concern). I know he made a video in 2009 exposing RF*Acid for using rapid fire on the Toad's Factory last trick, so it would seem like he deemed it worthy of being outed as cheating (I mean, it's fucking using a hack). There's always been a little ring of Japanese players who were hard to contact and seemed to keep quiet about such things, I'm just curious if it's a coincidence. It's a shame that they abused rapid fire to achieve time, and even moreso, IMO, if for some reason, they reached a consensus that it somehow wasn't cheating. Could just be a shot in the wind though. |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by ZedR on 11/01/19 at 05:30:52 6E575C5656514057121212250 wrote:
ffs are we done here yet? lmao http://https://i.imgur.com/5htC2nL.gif[/quote] http://https://i.imgur.com/t3AwDTy.png Who is next? ::) [smiley=johncleese.gif] [smiley=lolk.gif] [/quote] i am on this picture and now i'm feeling uneasy |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by Master Kek on 11/01/19 at 05:47:38 5F78726477447766627964160 wrote:
i am on this picture and now i'm feeling uneasy [/quote] ;D |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by ALAKTORN on 11/01/19 at 11:01:02 414141290 wrote:
Rapid fire being OK within Japanese gaming community is nothing new. This stems from the fact back in the ’90s Nintendo released official controllers with auto fire in order to better deal with the retardedly difficult rapid fire tasks in ’90s games like whatever that thing was in Chrono Trigger where I think you had to drink a buncha drinks. OK I kinda haven’t really verified any of that but it was a nice story so I wrote it. I do think it’s true. In a game I used to run for example, Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim, the RTA leaderboards are separate for the Japanese version, because Japanese runners use auto fire to mash through text and mash a sword’s ability in order to do a special attack as fast as possible, which overall saves a lot of time and effort in the run. They don’t think this is cheating, this is just Japanese speedrunning. I think the reason is what I mentioned in my story, but I don’t actually know for sure. Now that I think about it, there is something else they do in their category that I deem cheating– deleting game files in order to not trigger cutscenes so they’re skipped. lol Yeah Japanese speedrunning is kinda retarded. Their timing method is also fucking stupid, you might’ve noticed in some games that they run the game all through the ending credits and end their RTA at truly the end, instead of just at like the last input of the last boss fight like any sane person who doesn’t want to watch 10 minutes of a cutscene just to split their time would. |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by Chrono Krysster on 11/01/19 at 12:34:07 1F121F150A110C105E0 wrote:
Nintendo has released their official controllers with turbo/rapid-fire buttons for the first time in the 80s and on the NES with the NES Advantage and the NES Max, In Chrono Trigger the soda guzzling contest mini-game was not so difficult. *https://imgur.com/b1T9i9J :o seems like the only one official Nintendo SNES controller --a desktop arcade joystick-- with the turbo buttons feature, but it's for PAL version only! |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by Cole on 11/01/19 at 18:14:13 Based on the ghost ID of Nagisa's 2:31.942 (14682), it seems that the ghost was uploaded in January 2013 from D[ch967] Clyde's save file: http://www.ninrankings.org/ghostdatabase/profil.php?id=3260058805 So the ghost was not available in Summer 2012 when most of the cheaters were caught. It's kind of like the Mander situation where we are lucky that someone had this one ghost, since his other ghosts show no sign of cheating. If anyone else has old ghosts on their Wii, it would be nice to upload them to ninrankings, either for the WR site or to maybe find more cheaters... |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by KingAlex on 11/02/19 at 14:26:18 7B7B7B130 wrote:
Not that I care about Nagisa but that could be a valid point. Didn't SummoningSalt also mention in his history of SMB1 warpless that the Japanese abused controller rapid fire (not a hack) in their early "WRs"? I'm sure there's many other examples too. |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by Lemon on 02/20/20 at 15:02:36 @KingAlex Yes summoningsalt did mention in his RR wr history video that players would shave down a bump on the back of the d-pad in smk do get drifts faster, not sure if it was just Japs though. |
|
Title: Re: Nagisa busted Post by hahaae on 02/20/20 at 15:30:22 Eh, similar but not quite the same ballpark. What you're referring to is for SMK is called "NBT". There's a description of it on the SMK website. Basically it was discovered by Japanese that when a controller wore down from use, you could get MT's without having to drift the same direction the entire time (acquired by having 0 frames where the DPad is "neutral"), allowing for boosts to be obtained on straight paths via zigzagging. Also same thing is done in MKSC, where it's referred to as "ZZMT". However, it's widely accepted in those communities because it's obtainable without modifying a controller, just modding makes it easier. Basically everyone in the top30 in SMK for both PAL and NTSC does this, as well as most of the top25 in MKSC. |
|
Mario Kart MB » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |