Mario Kart MB https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl Mario Kart >> Super Mario Kart >> NTSC vs PAL differences in "feeling" https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1563317135 Message started by Maeda on 07/16/19 at 14:45:35

Title: NTSC vs PAL differences in "feeling" Post by Maeda on 07/16/19 at 14:45:35 As a newcomer, I have played SMK on the virtual console but am considering getting an actual SNES. I just wanted to ask those who have played both NTSC and PAL, which version do you prefer and does the difference in framerates affect the playability of the game?

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in Post by Firewaster on 07/16/19 at 16:00:37 It completely affects the playability of the game. One may say it's they are different games (I wouldn't go that far, it's more like playing a different character at a different speed) I prefer NTSC to be honest. Having the chance to play both I came to the conclusion that NTSC is fun and PAL is torture. I'm very biased though, since I've played NTSC my whole life.

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in "feeling" Post by Zarkov on 07/16/19 at 23:29:14 As has been said many times before, NTSC is Gods version. If you have no intention of ever coming to the CDM, save your sanity and dont play PAL.

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in Post by Sami de la SMK on 07/17/19 at 02:33:08 Like Firewaster's post above, I will be very biased and automatically say that I prefer PAL version because I grew up playing that one. To me... (and to me only...) NTSC is the "Don't-Hurt-Me" easier version. PAL is the "hard guy" version for those who wanna get some blood and sweat and tears and a real challenge. It explains why I was clinging on to NTSC like a Lamb in a field full of Wolves for most of the last year haha! #WayTooSoftGuy Anyway, jokes aside... it is a good question and here are some points to help: There are general differences and it is largely true that NTSC is a bit easier with certain things but both have advantages and yes, PAL has been the featured version at the World Championships which are based in Europe. So if you want to take the competition seriously I would recommend that version for if you want to compete there in future. Which continent are you from? Europe automatically had PAL version and America / Japan the NTSC, though you can easily find both versions on ebay. I would recommend giving both a go as several have done here, it will be twice the fun. If you are in America however you will need some sort of converter to play the PAL version on the American television system. Some of the guys who have that can explain better. In which case I would just start with the NTSC version only, and think about PAL for a future time. NTSC vs PAL Version: - NTSC Runs slightly faster by a few seconds give or take, depending on the track, it will be noticeably easier on some of the water / mud / ice tracks as the off-road terrain / water slowdown is less, which allows for better acceleration. Vanilla Lake 2 was not a favoured track by many, and you can drive much faster times clipping water on NTSC rather than PAL. This does not mean fact in the book that NTSC is better because of this, only that it is easier for an intermediate driving level. The solution to the problem is to just learn to drive the track without crashing on both versions. Then there is no more problem. - Gap jumping, platform jumps, larger feather shortcuts can be made easier on NTSC, which many enjoy. PAL version is just nearer that borderline of being too difficult to do and requires extra effort. Ghost Valley 1 and 2 5/5 platform jump is a good example where it is much more enjoyable to do on NTSC. - Items are much more fast paced and frantic on NTSC which is great on Battle Mode. Though on PAL you can do some dodges a little easier as there is a bit more time to make a decision and side jump properly. - The zoom start timings are generally better on NTSC and more consistent, although still a nightmare on Match Race for both versions. The zoom starts overall on SMK are one of the biggest annoyances of the game, which was fixed in the later sequels of the Mario Kart franchise. - The turn angles are much wider on the hairpin turns where you have to get into a jump slide with Bowser or D.K.Jr. Not too much of an issue on Time Trial, though Mario Circuit 3, 4 and Donut Plains 3 will be a little difficult to start with, but on 150cc GP NTSC it is. PAL has sharper cornering ability which is just perfectly balanced. - Only a few realise this, but NTSC has a nasty habit of veering inwards when you initially start turning and hopping into a corner. So if you turn a bit too early you can clip the inside before the corner appears. On PAL the kart drifts outwards very slightly to set up a better turn angle. For example, if you wanted to do an extremely aggressive one try on Ghost Valley 2 PAL without the platform jump, lets say for arguments sake...  a 1'02"8x as I think Karel performed in the recent years. Try to do the exact same sharpness on NTSC immediately after with no practice runs, and you will see what I mean. You literally have to position yourself differently and begin your turns at completely different points. The 3rd corner pipe on Mario Circuit 1 is another one, you can't start this turn too early on NTSC and keep the kart in sharp. If you have overturned on a corner, and keep jumping sideways until you recover, it will likely be too late on NTSC and you will hit the inner turn somewhere, but on PAL as the kart drifts out a bit, you can just about recover yourself, or have a bit of time to. This is key and usually overlooked. Or worse, not widely known. - Off road boosts (NBT), this is something for much later. But they are easier to execute on NTSC due to the much nicer charge times. However, why oh why the length of the boosts are shorter than PAL is beyond me. PAL is a godsend for this, where certain grass / sand / mud cuts you want to go that bit further and you can. - I have seen on youtube videos that people prefer NTSC games for the whole full screen thing, rather than PAL's one. Ignore all of that as it has nothing to do with the gameplay. That was more for other games / casual play etc and while you are concentrating playing SMK, no one notices or ever mentions it in passing. In conclusion, it has been said for years those learning PAL first then going to NTSC made them find NTSC easier with experience on the handling. However it still takes time to learn the different moves and reach targets. Everyone has an incredible amount of fun at the World Championships, else they wouldn't keep returning to compete again, everyone would just turn up to catch up with friends and spectate. So PAL version is not bad at all. If you are in Europe, purchase one and give it a go. Whatever you do choose, don't forget to have fun, that's the most important thing. Otherwise, what's the point?  :)

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in "feeling" Post by Maeda on 07/17/19 at 04:42:23 Thanks guys for the valuable information! I’m based in America so I will probably try NTSC first but I will always have the intention of playing PAL.

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in Post by Sami de la SMK on 07/17/19 at 05:10:36 567A7E7F7A1B0 wrote: Thanks guys for the valuable information! I’m based in America so I will probably try NTSC first but I will always have the intention of playing PAL. Ok cool, so basically get an NTSC SNES whenever you get round to it, as that will work on your TVs. Old CRTs will work best as there is no lag, same with any classic / retro console as you probably are aware. The PAL one would need the converter which can be looked into in future, and some of the guys in USA who have it can help you at there at that stage. On another note, although the PAL World Championships are every year, some of the guys in Louisiana introduced the first NTSC Championship there in Monroe. If all goes well they will hopefully organise a future one, perhaps in a different city or state. There will probably be more news on that later this year / early next year if it happens. So there could be an event to attend without you having to play PAL for that.

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in Post by Harvey Kartel on 07/17/19 at 19:04:28 To expand a bit on what Sami has said. 0C3E32365F0 wrote: - NTSC Runs slightly faster by a few seconds give or take, depending on the track, it will be noticeably easier on some of the water / mud / ice tracks as the off-road terrain / water slowdown is less, which allows for better acceleration. Vanilla Lake 2 was not a favoured track by many, and you can drive much faster times clipping water on NTSC rather than PAL. This does not mean fact in the book that NTSC is better because of this, only that it is easier for an intermediate driving level. The solution to the problem is to just learn to drive the track without crashing on both versions. Then there is no more problem. I've given this exact advice for VL2 before. The main difference here is that on PAL you want to take a slightly longer route near the end of the lap, unless you're either going for a lap record or are desperate to gain time. We call the NTSC route the "NTSC last corner" on PAL because while it's the "normal" way to do the corner on NTSC, on PAL it's a high-risk move due to (1) the kart's shorter jumping distance and (2) the huge amount of time lost if you fail to make it. 0C3E32365F0 wrote: Gap jumping, platform jumps, larger feather shortcuts can be made easier on NTSC, which many enjoy. PAL version is just nearer that borderline of being too difficult to do and requires extra effort. Ghost Valley 1 and 2 5/5 platform jump is a good example where it is much more enjoyable to do on NTSC. See above; the kart doesn't jump quite as far on PAL. Also, it's lengthy to fully explain in detail here, but because PAL runs at 25 frames per second and NTSC runs at 30, the kart travels slightly farther between frames so there's less likely to be a frame on which you are close enough to make the jumps successfully. GV3's platform jump is not affected by this; it's no harder to make on PAL than on NTSC. 0C3E32365F0 wrote: Items are much more fast paced and frantic on NTSC which is great on Battle Mode. Though on PAL you can do some dodges a little easier as there is a bit more time to make a decision and side jump properly. I wouldn't know this, since I haven't played Battle Mode or Match Race against anyone in PAL and only rarely play GP in either version. I've always been a TT guy myself. 0C3E32365F0 wrote: The zoom start timings are generally better on NTSC and more consistent, although still a nightmare on Match Race for both versions. The zoom starts overall on SMK are one of the biggest annoyances of the game, which was fixed in the later sequels of the Mario Kart franchise. You have to wait a little longer after the first light on PAL. I'd say that on NTSC you wait about 0.3 seconds after you hear the first beep, but on PAL it's more like 0.6 seconds. You will definitely false-start a lot on PAL if you're an NTSC native like me. 0C3E32365F0 wrote: The turn angles are much wider on the hairpin turns where you have to get into a jump slide with Bowser or D.K.Jr. Not too much of an issue on Time Trial, though Mario Circuit 3, 4 and Donut Plains 3 will be a little difficult to start with, but on 150cc GP NTSC it is. PAL has sharper cornering ability which is just perfectly balanced. This is one of the few things that's harder about NTSC than PAL. I don't find the difference to be particularly great, though. 0C3E32365F0 wrote: Only a few realise this, but NTSC has a nasty habit of veering inwards when you initially start turning and hopping into a corner. So if you turn a bit too early you can clip the inside before the corner appears. On PAL the kart drifts outwards very slightly to set up a better turn angle. For example, if you wanted to do an extremely aggressive one try on Ghost Valley 2 PAL without the platform jump, lets say for arguments sake...  a 1'02"8x as I think Karel performed in the recent years. Try to do the exact same sharpness on NTSC immediately after with no practice runs, and you will see what I mean. You literally have to position yourself differently and begin your turns at completely different points. The 3rd corner pipe on Mario Circuit 1 is another one, you can't start this turn too early on NTSC and keep the kart in sharp. If you have overturned on a corner, and keep jumping sideways until you recover, it will likely be too late on NTSC and you will hit the inner turn somewhere, but on PAL as the kart drifts out a bit, you can just about recover yourself, or have a bit of time to. This is key and usually overlooked. Or worse, not widely known. If this is tl;dr for you, I'll give you the short version: the kart starts drifting inwards sooner on NTSC. On PAL there's somewhat of a delay before the kart starts to turn, making the PAL kart feel "heavier" in a sense as you hop around corners. However, once the kart does start to make the turn, it will turn a little sharper on PAL, as mentioned in the previous point. 0C3E32365F0 wrote: Off road boosts (NBT), this is something for much later. But they are easier to execute on NTSC due to the much nicer charge times. However, why oh why the length of the boosts are shorter than PAL is beyond me. PAL is a godsend for this, where certain grass / sand / mud cuts you want to go that bit further and you can. I'm not a particularly advanced NBT driver so I really never noticed that the PAL boosts last longer, but I am aware that they take a bit longer to charge. I guess it evens out, except in areas where I have to do two NBTs in quick succession (e.g. my MC4 flap strat); in PAL where there's less time to transition from one boost to the next, I get better results by just foregoing one NBT or the other. 0C3E32365F0 wrote: I have seen on youtube videos that people prefer NTSC games for the whole full screen thing, rather than PAL's one. Ignore all of that as it has nothing to do with the gameplay. That was more for other games / casual play etc and while you are concentrating playing SMK, no one notices or ever mentions it in passing. PAL games on the SNES are usually letterboxed. You will see black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. This is because the NTSC screen is divided into 525 rows of pixels while the PAL screen has 625. PAL releases of SNES games generally still use 525-row pictures, since the graphics would have to be redrawn completely to fit a 625-row display. It's easier just to leave 50 rows each on the top and bottom unused. I haven't played PAL versions of more recent games than SMK so I can't say if later generations of consoles worked to solve this problem. As it's just a 15% or so difference in picture height, I'm not bothered by it anyhow. P.S. If you play PAL on an American TV, your picture will probably be in black and white like mine is. (If you watched my MC1 Non-NBT video you've seen this already). This is due to NTSC and PAL having different color encoding standards.

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in "feeling" Post by Dave Smith on 08/28/19 at 08:18:07 Well my fellow Karters. I will soon be able feel the difference myself. I have bought me a PAL SNES and Super Mario Kart game. They are coming from Australia...I hope they arrive. Should take about a month. Got Both items and shipping for USD141.00 I feel that was a fair price. With luck I will soon be coming for some of Yall's ranks. Muhahahaha!

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in "feeling" Post by ScouB on 08/28/19 at 09:28:13 Great news! Good luck on your PAL adventure  [smiley=beer.gif]

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in Post by Dave Smith on 09/09/19 at 09:12:18 Look what came in the mail today! Papa has a brand new bag! The power converter will be here Wednesday. Lets just HOPE my TV will work. https://imgur.com/a/2E7Lume

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in Post by Harvey Kartel on 09/09/19 at 09:15:52 Looks like one of the controllers is third-party. You don't really need 'em any way, I don't think, since all controllers, that I'm aware of, work on all consoles. But it's always good to have some spares, especially if friends come over... Hopefully at least one TV set in your house can play in 50Hz. I think mine's the only one in my home that can; the other two just say 60Hz on the back. Lucky me...

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in "feeling" Post by Danger M on 09/09/19 at 10:08:17 most crt's should be able to display a colour signal using an rgb cable (assuming they are rgb capable) irrespective of the Hz. It's when using composite (yellow/red/white) connections that you will get issues with black and white pictures etc.

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in "feeling" Post by Dave Smith on 09/09/19 at 14:09:46 I just checked and the TV I have does have RGB plug hook ups. Joe sent me a link to a cable that will plug into my SNES. If all fails I will get this cable if the red, white and Yellow cables give me trouble or I just can't stand playing in black and white.

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in Post by Harvey Kartel on 09/09/19 at 17:33:34 I didn't mind playing in black and white. I was just happy that I was able to play PAL at all on my TV. I'm pretty sure Joe played PAL in black and white also. EDIT: INCREDIBLE finish to the Saints-Texans game, Saints get their first 1-0 start in six years with a last-second 58-yard field goal! Wil Lutz, you're our hero! Beer's on the Who Dat Nation!  [smiley=beer.gif]

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in Post by ★Chrono★ ★Krysster★ on 09/10/19 at 04:33:48 http://https://i.imgur.com/ySzUoFU.png Nick, did you know that the Japanese karters play in 50Hz in Eastern Japan and 60Hz in Western Japan? NTSC-J 50Hz and NTSC-J 60Hz, weird isn't it?

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in Post by Danger M on 09/10/19 at 14:40:49 10373D3631323F2D01163F2C283B275E0 wrote: I'm pretty sure Joe played PAL in black and white also. Joe plays in colour now as he uses an rgb cable

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in Post by Harvey Kartel on 09/10/19 at 17:53:22 0A282B2B470 wrote: Joe plays in colour now as he uses an rgb cable Joe doesn't play in colour, he plays in color. You play in "colour".  8-) After all, "Colourful Colorado" doesn't quite have the same ring to it... (unless maybe you changed the spelling of the state's name to "Colourado") There was a British contestant on today's episode of Jeopardy!, hehe (and this one isn't the first, either)

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in "feeling" Post by Dave Smith on 09/11/19 at 06:57:27 Power converter came in today. We have two flat screen TV's here at work. Hooked everything up on the first TV and had sound but no video. Went to the second TV and BAM!!! Sound and Video! I guess the second TV is newer. So I now know my system works which is good news. Now I just need to get home and see if my CRT TV will rock and roll. One step closer to improving most of my 1 try times I submitted years ago. :)

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in "feeling" Post by Dave Smith on 09/11/19 at 16:31:29 *&^% is all I can say.

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in "feeling" Post by Harvey Kartel on 09/11/19 at 18:42:50 You don't have any TVs in your home that can display PAL? Uh-oh.

Title: Re: NTSC vs PAL differences in Post by Dave Smith on 09/12/19 at 10:33:19 There was a RCA flat screen at work and for some reason when I plugged the PAL system up (just using the red, white and yellow cables) the picture was in color. Very Very little lag if any for it may just be the difference in PAL and NTSC not sure but I will take it! I can say it is nothing like when I have tried to hook my NTSC system to a flat screen. You can barely get around the track the lag is so bad. So I am in business!!! Still going to keep an eye out for a CRT TV but I am happy with what I have been given.

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