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Mario Kart MB
https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl Mario Kart >> Mario Kart 8 >> Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1428179649 Message started by JACOB@MK8 on 04/04/15 at 12:34:09 |
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Title: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 04/04/15 at 12:34:09 I think it's about time this controversial topic gets discussed once and for all. As everyone should know, wheel users gain an unprecedented amount of time over non wheel users. The wheel gains time on turns (especially sharp ones, or any turn in anti-gravity and water I'd assume), momentum sliding, and firehopping. That's basically everything that needs to be perfected in TTs. So in other words, the wheel gains time anywhere and everywhere on any track. And there's nothing a non wheel user can do obtain this gain in time other than master gyro controls, which is virtually impossible to do for pretty much everyone. Besides, are we really forced to use one control type just to TT this game at its maximum capability? Now, for those who question the wheel's power, just take a look at this. rDDD, dDD, and rRRy are impossible to beat unless you use the wheel. Chonko's current TR time has a 37.450 lap 1, which is impossible to get for non wheels (take it from me). Finally, look at Victor's current dHC WR. The driving is seriously equivalent to a 1:48 run, yet it's the WR. And if he keeps it up, we are sure to see low 1:46 and probably 1:46 sub as well, which would be impossible to reach for non wheels. So, what's the verdict? Me, I'm in favor of having separate charts between wheel and non wheel. I admire these players who use the wheel, but the wheel advantage is just cheap and convoluted, turning off many non wheel players from specific tracks or just from the game entirely. Or, do we wait until the wheel inevitably takes over a majority of the tracks in the game? |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 04/04/15 at 12:41:15 Seperate charts or either wait if we get 200cc tts. If there's 200cc tts,wheelers are fucked because they can't brake unless they switch to gamepad wheel. But nobody plays with that crap except like 3 japs. as for TR lap1, Jordan got 37.490 , and I have it saved on my pc somewhere edit : found http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/14/1428180347-8c9a32bb90ca0779873c7443bf555e4d5339f5c17645c00ad4-pimgpsh-fullsize-distr.jpg |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Darren on 04/04/15 at 12:43:15 Make separate charts Also why is this not a poll |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Raγ on 04/04/15 at 12:48:42 4251426774746368060 wrote:
^ Also if there's gonna be 200cc TTs then obviously there won't be a need to do 150cc TTs anymore lol ;D |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Jordan Groff on 04/04/15 at 12:50:41 Despite how OP the wheel is turning out to be, I do not think it should have separate charts on this site. The rankings are weak enough already, and wheel rankings would have like 5 people, lol. And it is also silly to expect Nintendo to do anything about it. I say we just deal with it, most people probably won't be playing the game anymore in a year anyway. Hopefully in the next mk game, they don't screw anything like this up again. Edit: I thought this thread was for pp rankings. Definitely in favor of separate charts on mkwrs. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 04/04/15 at 12:54:58 Well props to Jordan then for that lap 1. Though I'm sure that was an absolute perfect lap, while Chonko's lap seems improvable to low .3 Also, this isn't a poll because to me voicing your opinion is better, and thus polls are useless. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 04/04/15 at 12:59:22 Here. Added the poll to satisfy everyone. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Alternate Sinuous on 04/04/15 at 13:07:48 Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES AND YES AGAIN |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Darren on 04/04/15 at 13:08:13 You didn't have to add a poll but w/e |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Cole on 04/04/15 at 13:24:32 I am definitely open to having separate charts on the WR site, as long as the community supports the idea. Even in the early days of this game, I started to suspect that the wheel had an advantage on more than just rDDD. Based on the recent WRs on tracks like rRRy, as well as the opinions of top players, it seems that the wheel's overall advantage has been confirmed. The problem with the wheel is that most top players dislike using it, so it could significantly hurt the level of competition if there aren't separate charts. One way I could do the separation would be to have a category for overall WRs and another category for non-gyro WRs. Main page: Overall WRs (motion control times would have a wheel icon or something) Non-gyro WRs (atm this would just show dDD, dHC, rRRd, rRRy, rDDD, SSC) History pages: Overall history (motion control times would have a wheel icon or something) Non-gyro history (for a few tracks this would be the exact same as the overall history) If you have a better idea in mind then let me know. But I'm not making any changes to the site until the DLC comes out, since I may have to redesign some stuff if 200cc is a separate TT category (or if it replaces 150cc). |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Alternate Sinuous on 04/04/15 at 13:29:43 I've always respected you a lot, cole, and if you do this for us my respect for you will just explode through the roof, I would be so happy and so would many others. WRs and W3R WRs on mkw.com/mk8, I am definitely in favour of the idea. I actually did stop TTing because of the unfair wheel advantage but this might just sway me back |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 04/04/15 at 13:32:01 I'd find it pretty unfair though if we don't do that for MKW ( some players probably want their W3Rs on mkwrs.com ) Of course it's up to you. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 04/04/15 at 13:43:00 The difference in MKW is that there is no difference between wheel and non wheel, besides on MG glitch. Wheel users in that game are just as capable getting the WR as anyone else. I could be mistaken though, but quite frankly that's for their community to decide. That sounds like a good starting point Cole. We'll see how the community responds to such a plan. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Alternate Sinuous on 04/04/15 at 14:01:42 Just so I'm understanding correctly, lets say we click on Hyrule Circuit, it would say "Current WR" then Diogo's time, then underneath it "Current gyro WR" then Victor's time? And it displays BOTH players as having a WR there for however long they set that record for? Of course adding the wheel icon next to victor's name because that would be pretty cute |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Ebil on 04/04/15 at 14:24:41 53696E756F75733132000 wrote:
The fastest time is always the WR. It would be "Current non-gyro WR" if the Gyro time is faster. So, it would show Victor's time as WR, and Diogo's time as Non-gyro WR. In the case of MK8, Gyro controls have the advantage, so Non-gyro WRs are the ones that get a separate chart. -EDIT- Separate charts for mkwrs.com, but not for MK8PP. There aren't enough Gyro players to justify the difference on the Player's Page. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Luso on 04/04/15 at 14:29:55 Wheel is broken, luckily for me the tracks where I hold WR (MW & WGM) Are very hard to play with wheel, WGM being much harder than MW (Where wheel gains about 1 second overall S3, and also gains a ton S1) "Separate" Charts are the solution, just adding a little section where the wheel has the WR. Aka in dHC Diogo would have one WR and Victor would have a separate WR below. I'm hoping this happens. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Alternate Sinuous on 04/04/15 at 14:30:11 Thats what I was asking, but it should still display Diogo as having a WR, it should still count. So it says he has 13 WRs right now yeah? It would instead display 14. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Ebil on 04/04/15 at 14:32:59 It would display Diogo as having a WR on the separate chart. Victor should still hold the official WR title. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Alternate Sinuous on 04/04/15 at 14:53:44 It should still at least show us as having multiple WRs, do that, and nobody will complain ever again. I promise. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Vinnie927 on 04/04/15 at 15:10:49 I'll never be good enough to have my opinion matter, but I don't think they should be separated. The advantages karts have over bikes are way bigger, and there aren't any separate charts for karts/bikes. If wheel does get added to mkwrs.com, then there should be an option to show the statistics with and without wheel. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 04/04/15 at 15:26:34 36090E0E0905600 wrote:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFoEcVsbPr0[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdVwg5_Phlc[/media] |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Vinnie927 on 04/04/15 at 15:34:17 Those are both Victor's times, right? He cheated in MKW, so I think those times shouldn't count. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Jordan Groff on 04/04/15 at 15:53:59 6562696C6461726B736861646F77000 wrote:
Totally agreed. Even though it is likely that the wheel run is sloppier than the non-wheel, its still unfair to assume that always. Just because someone is second ww to a wheel does not necessarily mean they would have the wr if the wheel didn't have stat bonuses. Also, we should try to stick to what Nintendo's online leaderboards say as much as possible. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by I¢£ on 04/04/15 at 16:10:16 765B5D555D320 wrote:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdVwg5_Phlc[/media] [/quote] I died a little on the inside |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Insanity on 04/04/15 at 18:03:50 Typical bias shown from the majority, who are just trying to put down/alienate every single wheeler. Pretty much everyone who wheeled, wheeled in mkw as well they didnt select it for the advantage. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Alternate Sinuous on 04/04/15 at 18:35:00 Insane...nobody is putting down people who wheel, we just simply cannot justify nintendo giving it an advantage, hence why it should have its own chart |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 04/04/15 at 18:39:36 506F68686F63060 wrote:
That's incredibly stupid. Victor and Tyler maybe past cheaters, but that has no affect when the game is uncheatable atm. Some of Mander and Jorge's WRs are part of MKWii's history since those times were legit, even though they're cheaters within that game. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by RRD on 04/05/15 at 02:39:28 Wheel icon appears if you use motion controls (including Wii U GamePad's gyroscope mode) during at least 80% of the run. It doesn't matter where the button controls part ( <20% ) is located (beginning/middle/end of the run) and you can split it into several parts. As a result, a “non-gyro” run can technically contain 79% of gyro controls time. While a W3R/gyro WR having 80%+ of motion controls time sounds fair, a “non-gyro” with up to 79% motion controls time is ridiculous. Going to such lengths for something not verifiable is a joke. This issue was already brought up before with rDDD ( http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1402852067/10#10 ). |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Vinnie927 on 04/05/15 at 03:42:02 00044451535C340 wrote:
That's incredibly stupid. Victor and Tyler maybe past cheaters, but that has no affect when the game is uncheatable atm. Some of Mander and Jorge's WRs are part of MKWii's history since those times were legit, even though they're cheaters within that game.[/quote] I thought that was what the community agreed on, which is why I said it. I'm not really involved with the community, so I wouldn't know anything that didn't happen on this site. The past cheaters topic had a majority saying no |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Suuper on 04/05/15 at 04:18:57 58584E0A0 wrote:
Someone who can hack (can anyone other than Mr. Bean?) should make a tool that checks if motion controls were used in any part of the run. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Alternate Sinuous on 04/05/15 at 04:32:42 From what ive seen, only stacy used a modified wii remote, everyone else is either WII WHEEL or not WII WHEEL |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 04/05/15 at 04:48:59 1B21263D273D3B797A480 wrote:
That is sadly wrong,Sinuous Danny G wanted to keep Dry Dry Desert so much that he started switching between Gamepad Wheel and Gamepad to keep the WR and fight again Catfish. IIRC, he used the gamepad to do neutral hops,and the rest was wheeled. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Danny G on 04/05/15 at 06:00:34 0F22242C244B0 wrote:
Yes, I eventually started using only 94% gyro controls (it was with Wii Wheel, Idk if that's what you meant) for my rDDD runs and switched to dpad at the end of each lap because I just couldn't neutral hop consistently with gyro controls. It sounds weird, but it worked for me. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 04/05/15 at 09:33:21 754A4D4D4A46230 wrote:
That's incredibly stupid. Victor and Tyler maybe past cheaters, but that has no affect when the game is uncheatable atm. Some of Mander and Jorge's WRs are part of MKWii's history since those times were legit, even though they're cheaters within that game.[/quote] I thought that was what the community agreed on, which is why I said it. I'm not really involved with the community, so I wouldn't know anything that didn't happen on this site. The past cheaters topic had a majority saying no[/quote] For joining the PP, I think that they shouldn't be able to again in any game. But to not count their WRs here when we know everything's legit would just idiotic. That's my bottom line on that situation. 454553170 wrote:
You can just watch the run and see which sections are gyro or not... Then establish that non-gyro means 0% gyro and that could solve that problem. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by WillD on 04/05/15 at 18:09:16 6E6A2A3F3D325A0 wrote:
There are some differences between the two. It's a lot more difficult to softdrift among other things. I'm opposed to having separate charts for gyro and non-gyro, unless the same happens for MKWii. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by I¢£ on 04/06/15 at 07:48:39 0F313434686161616C580 wrote:
There are some differences between the two. It's a lot more difficult to softdrift among other things. I'm opposed to having separate charts for gyro and non-gyro, unless the same happens for MKWii.[/quote] Wheel doesn't have huge advantages in MKW like it does in MK8, so there would be no point for a MKW one. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by WillD on 04/06/15 at 10:45:09 Right, but it's not fair to have separate charts for non-wheelers ONLY when wheelers have an advantage. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Mick on 04/06/15 at 12:09:35 This is not too dissimilar to the debate of gamepad vs K+M on PC for FPS/TPS. A lot of people prefer the comfort of a controller, but the superior capabilities offered by K+M allows users of that combo to outclass gamepad users of comparable levels most of the time. What happens in this situation is that either those gamepad users switch to K+M if they wish to truly stay competitive, or deal with the disadvantage, even it means they could lose most of the time. I do not see this situation for Mario Kart 8 should be handled differently, and the Players' Page has never discriminated players and records by type of controller used. Even though I voted No on the poll, I'm personally not opposed to having an extra table on the WR site if it helps players see what times would be reasonably achieved using standard controls, and if Cole is fine with it. But for global charts, separate categories by controllers will only dilute the competition and discriminate the dozens of wheelers that aren't at the top and may not even be aware of the advantage of motion controls. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by WillD on 04/06/15 at 13:02:56 1234312433182E32292870410 wrote:
This. If there is a separate category for non-gyro controls on the MK8 site, then there should also be one for wheelers on the MKW site. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 04/06/15 at 14:14:06 Mostly agree with Mick. Wii Wheelers in MKW had to either overcome extremely difficult odds or just make the switch to a different controller. I'm sure it wasn't super enjoyable, being comfortable with a controller that is inferior for most practical uses in MKW. Now that the tables have been flipped, it's up to the players to decide if they want to keep up with Wheel users by switching to the wheel, or just accept that they're disadvantaged. Wii wheel users got no sympathy in MKW, and it's fair to expect non-wheelers to get none in MK8. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 04/06/15 at 14:49:14 ^Accept now it's the majority of the players rather than the minority. Regardless I think some action needs to be taken effect in the future. Doing nothing like in MKW shouldn't mean we do the same in MK8 as our best plan of action. Instead a compromise should be made and benefit both games, and I think what Mick said is the best that can be done. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by WillD on 04/06/15 at 15:35:02 I agree with Hahaae. 07034356545B330 wrote:
That really shouldn't make a difference. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 04/06/15 at 18:33:02 1B2520207C757575784C0 wrote:
That really shouldn't make a difference. [/quote] More people want a change. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by I¢£ on 04/07/15 at 03:49:06 013F3A3A666F6F6F62560 wrote:
This. If there is a separate category for non-gyro controls on the MK8 site, then there should also be one for wheelers on the MKW site.[/quote] It's a completely different kind of advantage. In MKW, wheel was just harder to use, but had the same exact capabilities as any other controller. In MK8, wheel actually gets bonuses that other controllers don't, so it's not a matter of difficulty to use, but actual capabilities of the controller. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 04/07/15 at 05:32:04 Wii wheel actually does get a bonus. It can turn tighter than every controller in MKW. Still, no separate charts were made. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Darren on 04/07/15 at 07:01:26 ^it depends. Was this subject ever brought up? |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by MH on 04/07/15 at 10:03:25 6E683B676C6F736B6A6D6A716F030 wrote:
Nintendo removed flaps, they do not want us to play MK competitive, it's probably getting worse with every new MK... That aside, I am in favor of splitting Non-Gyro times from the rest. Gyro/Any controller should remain the main ranking, therefore no Wheel user will be discriminated or lose a WR, but there should be a sub-ranking with Non-Gyro times only like the "Kart only" section in MKW. With that we still have the problem how to prove that a Non-Gyro time actually uses 0% motion controls and that's going to be a bitch as mindscarp explained already... |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by WillD on 04/07/15 at 12:15:02 2D28600 wrote:
To clarify my previous opinion, I'm completely in favor of a sub-ranking for non-gyro times existing. However, just like the kart and wii-wheel times on MKW, they aren't as official, so there's no need to add a whole other category to the WR site |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 04/07/15 at 12:26:20 1F212424787171717C480 wrote:
To clarify my previous opinion, I'm completely in favor of a sub-ranking for non-gyro times existing. However, just like the kart and wii-wheel times on MKW, they aren't as official, so there's no need to add a whole other category to the WR site[/quote] |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by MrL1193 on 04/08/15 at 08:12:46 3333335B0 wrote:
As far as I'm aware, the Wheel's only advantage in MKW is that it can do full diagonal input. (Imagine a square of possible movement inputs, with other controllers limited to a circle within the square.) It's helpful for MG glitch, but for ordinary driving tasks, the extra input doesn't really help. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 04/08/15 at 08:17:21 [smiley=bath.gif] 0639077A7A72784B0 wrote:
As far as I'm aware, the Wheel's only advantage in MKW is that it can do full diagonal input. (Imagine a square of possible movement inputs, with other controllers limited to a circle within the square.) It's helpful for MG glitch, but for ordinary driving tasks, the extra input doesn't really help.[/quote] TAS has proven the difference it makes to be substantial, and even TAS input (iirc) isn't as optimal as the Wii wheel input range. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by MrL1193 on 04/08/15 at 17:32:32 313131590 wrote:
As far as I'm aware, the Wheel's only advantage in MKW is that it can do full diagonal input. (Imagine a square of possible movement inputs, with other controllers limited to a circle within the square.) It's helpful for MG glitch, but for ordinary driving tasks, the extra input doesn't really help.[/quote] TAS has proven the difference it makes to be substantial, and even TAS input (iirc) isn't as optimal as the Wii wheel input range. [/quote] Considering that it had to be proven by TAS (which isn't always comparable to real-time play to begin with), I'm skeptical about just how "substantial" the advantage is. The reason I bring this up is that I don't think our treatment of the Wheel in MKW is necessarily comparable enough to be used as a precedent. The reasons that it was never given consideration for separate charts there could be summed up as follows: 1. For a very long time, no one was even aware that the Wheel offered a wider range of inputs. If separate charts need to be discussed, it's always better to do so early, and we just didn't know there was any reason for such a discussion early on. 2. Even today, the Wheel is largely considered to be disadvantageous outside of special tasks (such as the MG glitch) due to how difficult it is to control it properly for everything else. Even the supposedly "substantial" advantage of full diagonal input doesn't adequately compensate for this. When someone gets a WR with the Wheel (other than MG glitch, of course), the tendency is still to applaud him for managing such a feat in spite of using the Wheel, not to discredit him for using a theoretically superior controller. Overall, the difficulty in using the Wheel seems to outweigh its advantages in MKW. 3. The majority of competitive playerscitation needed don't really like motion controls and have no desire to adapt to them if they can avoid it. As such, it's no surprise that they weren't fighting for "Wii Wheel Rights" when it was at a disadvantage and not threatening their preferred method of play. But now that the positions are reversed, they're more motivated to cry out at the "injustice." All of this is to say that we didn't necessarily ignore the Wii Wheel issue in MKW because it was right not to have separate charts; it's just that most people didn't give a flying shell about it as long as it wasn't their problem. I haven't actually played MK8 yet, so I won't be voting in the poll. I just came here because I felt the need to explain the MKW situation a bit more. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 04/08/15 at 22:39:58 ^Apparently the wheelers themselves didn't care to speak about their disadvantages either. Also, here's a pretty good visual of the wheel's power: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFoEcVsbPr0 This is ZRoyal we're talking about. And already he's ahead by a hefty amount just after 1 turn. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Insanity on 04/10/15 at 15:14:24 Blue Falcon is faster on every hop than Mach 8 so it's not exactly all wheel |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 04/11/15 at 01:38:52 0E293426292E333E470 wrote:
Even funnier than just " not exactly all wheel " Ok so i gained time on the starting boost by maybe 0.050 seconds [09/04/2015 22:15:56] [ch12298]¤B[ch321]A[ch272]E¤[ch12299] .: Gonna expiriment turns now [09/04/2015 22:16:35] Diogo: is nintentroll really that retarded? omg [09/04/2015 22:17:03] [ch12298]¤B[ch321]A[ch272]E¤[ch12299] .: Just gained time on him after 1st mt as well [09/04/2015 22:17:07] Diogo: wow [09/04/2015 22:17:10] Diogo: ok thanks for trying [09/04/2015 22:17:12] [ch12298]¤B[ch321]A[ch272]E¤[ch12299] .: Mt seem to be a bit more boosting [09/04/2015 22:17:15] Diogo: now rookie needs you to war [09/04/2015 22:17:19] [ch12298]¤B[ch321]A[ch272]E¤[ch12299] .: Ok [09/04/2015 22:17:24] Diogo: he kicked u from chatbox to know if you were here still [09/04/2015 22:17:33] Diogo: in case u didnt know rookies shitty mind [09/04/2015 22:18:41] [ch12298]¤B[ch321]A[ch272]E¤[ch12299] .: XD [09/04/2015 22:19:22] [ch12298]¤B[ch321]A[ch272]E¤[ch12299] .: But yeah i seemed to have gained time on him even though i failed a few slides because of my mt [09/04/2015 22:22:47] Diogo: thats pretty unfair [09/04/2015 22:22:57] Diogo: after all the time complaining about wii wheel [09/04/2015 22:23:12] Diogo: now we know that gamepad wheel GAINS over people gaining on traction over other controllers [09/04/2015 22:23:18] [ch12298]¤B[ch321]A[ch272]E¤[ch12299] .: yeah, kinda bs on nintendos game code :/ [09/04/2015 22:23:19] Diogo: what is this shit man Blade is a gamepad wheel user. and he just gains like yolo on gigagia's 1:54.803 rDDD just by using the proper controller. There's no need to try getting separate charts. why should we have like 3 separate charts ? not worth anymore |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 04/11/15 at 04:11:59 Well I'd still keep it at 2 if one there is some separate charts one day. Wheel gets traction bonus, non wheel doesn't. That's the main difference. Every wheel player not at gamepad wheel should switch to gamepad wheel. Break this game! |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Cole on 04/16/15 at 14:01:22 Here are two mockups of what the main page might look like with separate charts: Option 1: http://mkwrs.com/mk8/sepcharts1.php Option 2: http://mkwrs.com/mk8/sepcharts2.php The non-motion controls WRs shown aren't necessarily the current non-motion controls WRs. This is just for demonstration purposes. Also the duration values and WR tally would be accurate in the real version. Imo Option 2 looks better but it is a bit more confusing because the WRs are shared between 2 different times. Option 1 makes it clear that it's a new separate category but I don't like that it has 3 WR tables on the main page. Let me know which option you think is better or if you have a different idea. Also I'm wondering what people think is the best name for this category: "Non-Motion Controls", "Non-Gyro", or "Non-Wheel" Regarding the comparison to MKW Wii Wheel: In MKW, only a small percentage of players used Wheel competitively. There are some strong W3Rs but overall there hasn't been that much competition for W3Rs compared to the competition of the current main MKW WR categories. In MK8, the majority of players use non-motion controls so there is already a lot of competition. I think the main categories on the WR site need to have a lot of competition, which is why I don't agree that we need to add W3Rs to MKW's WR site. Also, I think it's fair to say that MKW wheel players knew that they were picking a controller that would be more difficult to use. In MK8, non-wheel players had no way of knowing that they were picking a controller that would end up being slower after ~6 months. Yes, the ideal situation would be for the top MK8 players to switch to wheel/gamepad wheel in order to push the game to its limits. But I don't think that most people will switch. Instead, I think people will just quit the game and lower the competition. There are only a small percentage of people in the MK community that would enjoy competing with full motion controls. Regarding the faking of non-gyro runs: As mindscarp said, it would be possible to switch to motion controls during a run to cheat the new category. But I think we will be able to tell like Jacob said. And for clarification, yes, the new category would be 0% motion controls. Regarding the PP: I agree with Mick that the issue of the wheel's advantage doesn't affect most players, so imo separate charts aren't currently needed for the PP. But I think the wheel's advantage is having a big impact on the WR players right now, which is why I support having separate charts on the WR site. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Vinnie927 on 04/16/15 at 14:30:27 The database is down, so I can't have an opinion on those yet. However, I think Non-Gyro fits the most. Also, they're going to be separated like non-sc was for MKWii (not anymore), right? |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Alternate Sinuous on 04/16/15 at 14:35:25 Just viewed both and I like both, maybe option two more But, since non-gyro will be recognized and acknowledged as WRs also, will the non-gyro WR show up as being a multiple WR holder if they have one on another course? Seriously im not even kidding this will motivate the hell out of me especially if it counts towards being a multiple WR holder |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by WillD on 04/16/15 at 14:41:07 4B67646D4F61646A6D7A7C080 wrote:
Though I stand by my opinion that the site itself doesn't need separate charts, I like the 1st one better. 4B67646D4F61646A6D7A7C080 wrote:
Non-Gyro imo 4B67646D4F61646A6D7A7C080 wrote:
As someone who played with wheel in the early days of MKW, I disagree with your first statement. Sure, the disadvantage became evident over time, but since it was only a small portion of players, no one else cared. 4B67646D4F61646A6D7A7C080 wrote:
Agreed. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Suuper on 04/16/15 at 16:53:36 @having 3 charts on the main page: Since the only stat that is tracked for non-DLC, why not combine them and just have two total rows? There also should be a total for non-Gyro. I prefer non-Gyro or non-Wheel, because they're short. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 04/16/15 at 17:49:49 Thank you very much Cole :D Of course now I read this after wasting my time on Youtube [smiley=lolk.gif] Anyways, non-gyro is the most suitable name. I personally like having another table for identifying separate categories, so option 1. Would you consider adding the dlc tracks to the main WR chart once the second pack is released, like Suuper said? Everything else you said I absolutely agree with. This is an effective starting point to deal with a situation never thoroughly dealt with before. Cheers! |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Mick on 04/17/15 at 01:57:34 0925262F0D2326282F383E4A0 wrote:
I largely prefer the first option over the second one. I find it confusing to put both times under a same field as you said. It also brings the implication that both times are de-facto world records when only the fastest one is. However if you go for option 1, you should group the vanilla and DLC tracks together. Our experience with the 1st DLC pack demonstrated that they see a comparable competition at the top level, and thus their WRs should have the same value as the ones in the other tracks. They should at least be color-coded differently somehow to show the distinction between what's available from the start and what is extra content though. As for the naming, Non-Gyro is short and more encompassing as well. Non-Wheel could imply that gamepad usage isn't factored in. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by MH on 04/17/15 at 02:23:28 I prefer the second layout; the first one seems to "downgrade" the non-Gyro WRs a little too much by putting them in a seperate table in my opinion. But I can see why people would find it confusing, especially at first glance. How about taking the second layout and adding an additional column for the "Time+Video" of non-Gyro WRs? A little like it is done on this table for example: http://www.mariokart64.com/mkw/wrc.php There would be some blank spaces then, but it would be rather well-arranged. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by RRD on 04/17/15 at 06:25:09 GCN Baby Park may have 7 laps in Time Trial mode as well. At the moment, it seems that neither the “Add New WR” page nor the track page (http://mkwrs.com/mk8/display.php?track=GCN+Baby+Park) on the Mario Kart 8 WR website is suited for the input/display of 7 lap times. Option 2 is way too confusing, it does not explain why two different times are listed as “World Records”. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Ebil on 04/17/15 at 09:22:24 123E3D3416383D33342325510 wrote:
I definitely prefer Option 1. Mostly because I can see all 32 non-dlc WRs without scrolling. Quote:
Maybe you could make it so that the table is 2 tabs? The first tab with the current WRs, and second with the Non-Gyro WRs. (Like Sheets in Excel) This way, there'd still only be 2 WR tables visible on the page. All Controls - http://i.imgur.com/uKrnS9p.png Non-Gyro - http://i.imgur.com/rpfxcpR.png Quote:
Agreed. But I also think the MK8PP shouldn't add separate charts in the future. (Outside of glitches/shortcuts if that somehow happens.) Not like MKW Karts ever got separate charts... |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 04/17/15 at 09:58:24 73747F7A7277647D657E77727961160 wrote:
I definitely prefer Option 1. Mostly because I can see all 32 non-dlc WRs without scrolling. Quote:
Maybe you could make it so that the table is 2 tabs? The first tab with the current WRs, and second with the Non-Gyro WRs. (Like Sheets in Excel) This way, there'd still only be 2 WR tables visible on the page. All Controls - http://i.imgur.com/uKrnS9p.png Non-Gyro - http://i.imgur.com/rpfxcpR.png[/quote] Your idea definitely seems to be the best to me. doesn't waste much space,just adding up another page. probably requires more work,though. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Danny G on 04/17/15 at 11:55:38 I would agree with Option 1, but I can envision a lot of adding/deleting of rows from the Non-Gyro section. With this said, I would also support Ebil's suggestion of two different tabs if at all possible. "Non-Gyro" is definitely the correct name. It's shorter than "Non-Motion Controls" and more universal than "Non-Wheel" (the way I see it, GamePad with motion controls is just GamePad with motion controls; wheel is wheel). 5D71727B5977727C7B6C6A1E0 wrote:
A bit irrelevant, but I disagree with this statement. Especially with Wii Wheel being introduced at the release of MKW, that doesn't sound like a fair statement to me. I didn't know at first that it was a harder controller for some people. When I picked up the wheel in 2008 (I had not yet found the MK community at this time), I wasn't aware of other controllers. When I had played it before actually having it, Wii Wheel was all I saw. It wasn't until months later that I found out what the wheel symbol meant and that there are other controllers. Of course much later when I found the community I learned about the wheel's differences from other controllers. I gave the other controllers a try, and I stuck with wheel simply because I played my best with it. As a MKW wheel user, I just wanted to share my personal viewpoint. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Cole on 04/18/15 at 16:17:37 Option 3: http://www.mkwrs.com/mk8/sepcharts3.php (updated version of option 1 with DLC added to the main table) I like Ebil's tab suggestion as well. I'll work on implementing separate charts in May. 1D1D0B4F0 wrote:
Ok, I'll have to add more lap columns for dBP then. This probably won't be done by the DLC release date, so updaters can just add the first 3 laps for now. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by ALAKTORN on 04/18/15 at 16:51:20 I came here to laugh. You guys should’ve understood that this game was garbage and dropped it long ago. Whining about Nintendo giving wheelers an advantage and asking for separate charts is retarded. The game is complete shit, deal with it. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 04/18/15 at 17:13:02 I'd prefer everything on one tab, but do what's most convenient for the site [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by BDON on 04/19/15 at 02:12:49 Yeah definitely going for Ebil's idea [smiley=thumbsup.gif], as it looks the best for browsing. Also, didn't Diogo tie Tyler on dIIO? I didn't see it anywhere on the seperate charts... |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Alternate Sinuous on 04/19/15 at 02:32:10 I am a little confused on option 3 as to why some have gray lines on them? EDIT :: Oh they're DLC, ok, I really do like option 3. What of the days? For example, Diogo's Dry Dry Desert was set a while ago not 26 days ago, I'll assume they will be updated when its complete? Anyway, my vote's for option 3! |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Luso on 04/19/15 at 02:49:19 Any of them work, but I prefer Option 2, it seems the most simple, and you can clearly see without going up and down or changing tabs where 2 wr's are held with different controllers. (Also, I'm guessing this will count to individual records too?) |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by kurumi on 04/21/15 at 09:31:45 09363131363A5F0 wrote:
That's incredibly stupid. Victor and Tyler maybe past cheaters, but that has no affect when the game is uncheatable atm. Some of Mander and Jorge's WRs are part of MKWii's history since those times were legit, even though they're cheaters within that game.[/quote] I thought that was what the community agreed on, which is why I said it. I'm not really involved with the community, so I wouldn't know anything that didn't happen on this site. The past cheaters topic had a majority saying no[/quote] I don't believe I was around at the time, but I don't believe there was ever actual evidence to support that Victor was a cheater, him along with some other players such as Tyler were banned due to heavy suspicion, I personally think it's wrong to ban people without conclusive evidence. Also the statement that I received from Tyler why he had an alternate license without an FC lines up with the general community attitude towards him and I remember instances where people would not war his clan because he was in the lineup, and because of this he had a license without an FC at the ready to go on an alternate license to war. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 04/22/15 at 08:02:44 Tyler cheated on GV2 TTs, Victor admitted to cheating on MG glitch. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 04/22/15 at 14:40:46 797979110 wrote:
http://prntscr.com/6x1g9p taken from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtBdv_q1kzI |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by kurumi on 04/22/15 at 15:21:37 2626264E0 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Malleo was the one who cheated on GV2, Malleo also blatantly cheated on TF |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 04/22/15 at 19:21:57 7B6562657D79100 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Malleo was the one who cheated on GV2, Malleo also blatantly cheated on TF[/quote] Isn't Tyler Malleo? This is what I was led to believe. Or if it's Schwam or whatever his name was, he also cheated in MKW. @Diogo: Pretty sure plenty of other cheaters have tried to deny cheating before. Doesn't change the fact that it happened. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by TASPlasma on 04/22/15 at 19:34:26 3B3B3B530 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Malleo was the one who cheated on GV2, Malleo also blatantly cheated on TF[/quote] Isn't Tyler Malleo? This is what I was led to believe. Or if it's Schwam or whatever his name was, he also cheated in MKW. @Diogo: Pretty sure plenty of other cheaters have tried to deny cheating before. Doesn't change the fact that it happened.[/quote] Shwam is Tyler, Malleo is Sean Owens (they are different people, that share the same youtube channel). Shwam likely used live replay on DKM (never confessed to this) and other tracks, Sean admitted to cheating TF. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 04/22/15 at 19:41:10 4C796B4874796B7579180 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Malleo was the one who cheated on GV2, Malleo also blatantly cheated on TF[/quote] Isn't Tyler Malleo? This is what I was led to believe. Or if it's Schwam or whatever his name was, he also cheated in MKW. @Diogo: Pretty sure plenty of other cheaters have tried to deny cheating before. Doesn't change the fact that it happened.[/quote] Shwam is Tyler, Malleo is Sean Owens (they are different people, that share the same youtube channel). Shwam likely used live replay on DKM (never confessed to this) and other tracks, Sean admitted to cheating TF.[/quote] Ah yeah, forgot about that. Yeah didn't Tyler like appear out of nowhere with WR or something close? Don't really remember the story. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by kurumi on 04/23/15 at 04:30:34 414141290 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Malleo was the one who cheated on GV2, Malleo also blatantly cheated on TF[/quote] Isn't Tyler Malleo? This is what I was led to believe. Or if it's Schwam or whatever his name was, he also cheated in MKW. @Diogo: Pretty sure plenty of other cheaters have tried to deny cheating before. Doesn't change the fact that it happened.[/quote] Shwam is Tyler, Malleo is Sean Owens (they are different people, that share the same youtube channel). Shwam likely used live replay on DKM (never confessed to this) and other tracks, Sean admitted to cheating TF.[/quote] Ah yeah, forgot about that. Yeah didn't Tyler like appear out of nowhere with WR or something close? Don't really remember the story.[/quote] He got the DKM WR with glitch (2:00.9) when the WR was around 2:02 I believe, he streamed it to Spark (someone who has never been suspected of cheating and has streamed to Silver and myself, so he is a trusted player in my times) and he also had many PRs before that on his top 5, from what I remember the only "evidence" in his case is that he had a license without a friend code, but like I said, his statement makes perfect sense due to the general community animosity towards him. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 04/23/15 at 04:44:11 Ah. Didn't he appear out of nowhere with a super good BC time as well? I remember him sucking at the track in 2010 then retiring, and I think coming back out of nowhere a few years later with 2:11 or something. Don't remember how it went, and his old Poptarts1998 YT channel is long gone so I can't check anything. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by kurumi on 04/23/15 at 05:39:01 090909610 wrote:
i quite literally picked up the track today and got 2:11.8 with a 44 lap 3, i dont feel like fast times on glitch tracks like bcwii mean anything especially since the hop glitch is easy as piss nowadays (i make it 8/10 and tyler currently makes it 9/10 in tts) |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 04/23/15 at 06:31:05 This was before the hop glitch thing though. It actually used to be challenging lol |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by kurumi on 04/23/15 at 06:35:22 4242422A0 wrote:
regardless if it was with or without the hop glitch at the time, i do not think that fast improvements on a glitch time should warrant a ban |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 04/23/15 at 06:38:21 I think you're completely missing the point. iirc he came back and made rapid improvements on several tracks and didn't comply when it was brought up. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by kurumi on 04/23/15 at 06:51:20 6A6A6A020 wrote:
the only times i remember him being good at ever were dkm bcwii and cm, maybe a few more but for the most part those were mostly glitch times, which courses were the ones he rapidly improved on? also he asked me what he can do to get his times to count now and i think he's willing to do streams vs ghosts and stuff (/record live vs ghost because idk if he can stream on twitch) |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 04/23/15 at 07:16:18 I don't fully remember (we're talking like 3(?) years ago and I'm an old man now), but I do remember it being discussed and no real proof was provided after a given time so he was banned. There are alternatives to twitch as well lol. As for proving himself now, that's up to the community to decide. I'm just stating that he wasn't banned just for the sake of banning someone. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by MrL1193 on 04/23/15 at 15:43:26 The original discussion about Tyler/Shwam can be found here, for reference: http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1204417758/16008#16008 He was already under some suspicion at the time after Malleo got caught cheating (http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1265482396/1751#1751), so when he claimed he'd gotten the GCN DK Mountain WR, it didn't go over very well. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by kurumi on 04/23/15 at 16:54:24 0E310F72727A70430 wrote:
All of what I read there was just suspicion based on the general community animosity towards him, true, he was caught cheating online, but the only time he was ever caught cheating is when he blatantly made it so in a funroom (2v2) and used a shock as a joke, from then on 90% of the community believed he cheated and had a strong hatred, from what I read, he should have been frozen until he streamed, I don't believe he should have been banned, the evidence that Cole gave may have been convincing to some but it still isn't conclusive proof that he cheats [17:08:01 EDT] Cole: well why would you delete a license like that? [17:09:03 EDT] Tyler: it was going to be a potential alt but i decided against it, i have the exact same mii & license on my jap iso, i can livestream to prove im legit lol idc what ppl think [17:09:21 EDT] Cole: but the license didn't have an FC [17:09:25 EDT] Cole: so you could have just kept it [17:09:29 EDT] Cole: and connected to wifi [17:10:26 EDT] Tyler: oh well This is the exact same statement that Tyler gave to me, however it's possible that he may have connected and forgot in the meantime. Regardless, I still feel he should have just been perma frozen until he decided to stream, he's told me recently that when he starts playing MKW actively again he would be willing to follow some requests and has asked me what he could do to make his times count, including racing live vs ghosts and possibly streaming (probably over skype, since he can't stream on twitch) But yeah, I'm repeating myself now but I think thats he should be unbanned and just frozen until he can stream / upload videos versus ghosts and things, many of the arguments is that he was friends with someone who got caught cheating, as well as that he has "more knowledge about TAS than the average person" (quoting troy), if someone was friends with someone, why would he just ditch him because he was caught cheating? Let's use the example of Daniel, despite him cheating, many top players still remained friends with him. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Cole on 04/23/15 at 18:57:41 4A5453544C48210 wrote:
All of what I read there was just suspicion based on the general community animosity towards him, true, he was caught cheating online, but the only time he was ever caught cheating is when he blatantly made it so in a funroom (2v2) and used a shock as a joke, from then on 90% of the community believed he cheated and had a strong hatred, from what I read, he should have been frozen until he streamed, I don't believe he should have been banned, the evidence that Cole gave may have been convincing to some but it still isn't conclusive proof that he cheats [/quote] Tyler's times were removed due to suspicion and lack of proof. IIRC he did do 1 DKM stream after getting WR but it didn't show that he was 2:00.xxx level and he had a poor attitude about proving himself (there are some posts about this in MrL's link). I do think you're right that there wasn't ever conclusive proof that he cheated. I'm not sure why zak's old top 10 site listed him as banned instead of pending. If he starts streaming again then the community may accept his times. But most top mkwii players were very doubtful that his times were legit. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Marc on 04/23/15 at 19:01:04 507D7B737B140 wrote:
except wii wheel CAN brake you probably never used it |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by kurumi on 04/23/15 at 20:25:04 062A2920022C2927203731450 wrote:
All of what I read there was just suspicion based on the general community animosity towards him, true, he was caught cheating online, but the only time he was ever caught cheating is when he blatantly made it so in a funroom (2v2) and used a shock as a joke, from then on 90% of the community believed he cheated and had a strong hatred, from what I read, he should have been frozen until he streamed, I don't believe he should have been banned, the evidence that Cole gave may have been convincing to some but it still isn't conclusive proof that he cheats [/quote] Tyler's times were removed due to suspicion and lack of proof. IIRC he did do 1 DKM stream after getting WR but it didn't show that he was 2:00.xxx level and he had a poor attitude about proving himself (there are some posts about this in MrL's link). I do think you're right that there wasn't ever conclusive proof that he cheated. I'm not sure why zak's old top 10 site listed him as banned instead of pending. If he starts streaming again then the community may accept his times. But most top mkwii players were very doubtful that his times were legit.[/quote] Thank you for clearing that up, I will inform him of this and when he starts playing actively again I can get him to stream to top players over skype and stuff (and he can record live vs ghost) so he can prove his legitimacy. Also in terms of poor attitude, he was an enormous troll and rarely took things seriously, but we'll see if he can do DKM since he said he doesn't have any motivation for MKW now that MK8 DLC came out |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 04/23/15 at 21:14:58 Upon re-reading that thread, it does come back. - The whole "taking a break from Runescape" and 1 week later improving his 2:03 rDKM run directly to a 2:00.9, beating the WR by like 1.5 or so seconds, after showing no progress whatsoever. - Known to have homebrew on his Wii and caught hacking in WCL - Close ties with Malleo, who was caught trying to pass off TAS'd runs as legitimate and had excessive knowledge in TAS - Improved (again, out of nowhere) his BC 3lap to 2:11.6xx, with the OLD SC and old strats. This is by no means easy, and anyone who says otherwise is talking out of their ass. - Refused to comply with people requesting proof, only streamed his rDKM run to 1 person on a Skype stream (which would be infinitely easier to fake than a run streamed to multiple TT'ers in the community who are analyzing you) - Don't remember what the CM time was, but again, it was out of nowhere and was an insane cut - His driving in other videos was NOWHERE near the level he demonstrated in his "WR" or his "improvements" on rDKM/BC/CM I guess you can't say it's hard proof. But the MKW community has seen people like Tyler come and go, hundreds of times. I can tell you right now that he cheated during that era. I'm not going to bother replying after this, but you need to stop trying to play dumb and accept that he cheated in MKW. Again, I'm not part of this community so I really don't care a whole lot. If the MK8 community wants to make a dumbass decision by letting a known cheater compete, then so be it. I'll just be shaking my head with a smile when it all goes to shit. Quote:
For MKW? Over Skype? Absolutely not. Use something public for the community to watch. There are many alternatives to Twitch, if it doesn't work for him (which I find hard to believe in itself). |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by TASPlasma on 04/23/15 at 22:25:44 Actually, Malleo told me a while back that Shwam admitted to him that Shwam's 2:03 run was TASed. Assuming Shwam did actually confess to cheating that run to Malleo, then I see no reason why the 2:00.9 would be legit. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by kurumi on 04/24/15 at 01:21:55 414141290 wrote:
It's been cleared up anyways, I was under the impression he was banned, which he is not. Also I don't know the reasons, but I do know he streams MK8 in calls very very often and is fine with playing courses we ask him to. I'll stop replying as well since it's been resolved. Also @ the above post, I think there was a point in time they didn't like each other and they stopped talking, so it's possible it was made up, hearsay has never been enough to warrant any action, however since it came from someone who is his friend and would have no reason to lie, it would warrant him being frozen until he has proven himself. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by MaxAlternativeRecords on 04/26/15 at 07:31:25 3737375F0 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Malleo was the one who cheated on GV2, Malleo also blatantly cheated on TF[/quote] Isn't Tyler Malleo? This is what I was led to believe. Or if it's Schwam or whatever his name was, he also cheated in MKW. @Diogo: Pretty sure plenty of other cheaters have tried to deny cheating before. Doesn't change the fact that it happened.[/quote] Can you find where Victor admitted to cheating? I realize this isn't really the correct place to be putting all this, but I can't find any other page at all discussing Victor. Does anyone at all have any evidence that Victor cheated OR that He admitted to cheating? |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Blackyboi on 04/27/15 at 00:53:19 01054550525D350 wrote:
That's wrong Wheel has a significant advantage on more than MG glitch, GV2 non glitch flap (keiichi) is the best example, there is a massive difference on the sc (good players who ever TT'd GV2 will know the difference) |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Yasten on 04/28/15 at 16:52:56 To think more WRs are taking tilt controls now... Tilt is almost becoming THE WR strat. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 05/04/15 at 07:12:42 Ok guys,time to start up again with the topic itself. Screw the cheater topic and everything else,back to the wheel gain. A few days ago, Kai found out that just the wiimote alone ( So,you drive by using the directional pad on the up of the wiimote,use A or B to shroom, + for start, - to look behind you, 1 for drifts and hops ( also braking :/ ) and 2 to accelerate. ) can give the same exact advantage as Wii Wheel. He got Cheese Land WR for a few hours (until Chonko3 got it back because he's simply a beast) with this strat. At first I thought he just switched to wheel at some turns. Then I tried it myself. First used it on CL aswell. The gain time is real,and is exactly the same as wheel. I improved my Baby Park time by .4 ( and it still sucks ) , my cheese land by .5 with a missed MT, and my NBC by .3 mainly because I can't brake and I failed lap3. My thoughts about the wiimote dpad Incredible find. Might save the game,might ruin it. Some players still refuse to switch to it, but people like me Kai Jamie or even Cole will switch. But,for now,I refuse to use it on tracks where wheel is sure to maybe never come ( such as TTC ) to be fair with the WR holders. Also,apparently, you must own a Wii Motion Plus to have a traction gain with dpad ( I use the Zelda Skyward Sword Wiimote , but Stacy had to mod his controller to gain time ) unless some players can prove they didn't need a Wii Motion Plus to gain time. Should separate charts still happen? To me,yes. Not on the Players' Page,but on mkwrs.com. The time gain is still not fair,it should have never existed. Of course we'll have to switch but that doesn't mean we can't make separate charts. Is it possible to notice if someone used wiimote dpad or not ? It sure is. Just either race the ghost,or look up at the slides,turns,or even anything else. As a new dpad user ( even if I can't play a lot ) I'll be using wheel slides with dpad,to make sure people will know that my time was done with dpad, instead of my favourite controller,gamepad. Time to switch ladies. Cole,I just hope you take the best decision. You already are using dpad ( Nice new strat on BP too :P ) and you're already aware of its gain. Up to you now. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Alternate Sinuous on 05/04/15 at 07:39:58 Can confirm you get the traction on a REGULAR wii remote and yes, the charts should still happen |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by ALAKTORN on 05/04/15 at 08:08:33 If people are gonna switch to DPad to get the Wheel gain, then the separation has even less meaning than it did before, lol. Why doesn’t the WU Gamepad DPad not work anyway? This is so retarded. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 05/04/15 at 08:33:04 ^Seconded. Once again this game is a joke. So it doesn't work for the dpad on the pro controller either? Not that it matters to me because my thumb naturally goes back up to the stick, in addition to not being able to do the simplistic of driving. My point still stands as well. People should be able to use whatever they want without the worry of this gay-ass time gain. I'd continue with our original plan. Nothing has really changed. It just created more options for one side. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 05/04/15 at 08:33:08 020F0208170C110D430 wrote:
I suppose it's because the Gamepad DPad is considered as the analog stick @Jacob : Pro controller doesn't gain either. Umbre tested. Only wiimote alone does. even with nunchuck you don't gain. also Harm's point of view because this scrub went to bed : Personally I believe that now that there is a much easier alternative method to gain wheel advantage, there should be no reason for there to be seperate charts now. People shouldn't bitch about having to switch to motion controls because now they don't have to, they simply have to take a few hours out of their day to learn a directional pad rather than a stick, which is clearly not that hard to adjust to judging by how quickly you, Cole, K4I, etc have done it. Creating seperate charts now is basically useless to me because soon enough the stick players will be in the minority, and/or they'll just want to grasp at straws to have a WR. (Trust me, I can see some ppl doing this...) At first I was against wheel advantage but now that it's even more widely available to anyone and hardly a difficult adjustment, I think there should be an effort to move the majority forward, to help move the game forward. This advantage is the new meta, time to move on. I agree with his point,but I still kinda want separate charts Jordan's point of view : On 5/4/2015, at 9:24 AM, Jordan wrote: > idk why everyone is so hateful on wheel On 5/4/2015, at 9:25 AM, Jordan wrote: > and then fucking jumps on the chance to use dpad On 5/4/2015, at 9:27 AM, Jordan wrote: > dpad killed any chance for separate charts On 5/4/2015, at 9:27 AM, Jordan wrote: > because there is no symbol on wii u (sun) On 5/4/2015, at 9:29 AM, Jordan wrote: > if they do, mk8 will become people just lying about "I didn't use dpad !!!! Its a legit run !!!!" And then we have the mkw TT community On 5/4/2015, at 9:32 AM, Jordan wrote: > On 5/4/2015, at 9:29 AM, Diogo wrote: > Nobody will be allowed to lie about this nobody is allowed to lie about TAS On 5/4/2015, at 9:32 AM, Jordan wrote: > that works great On 5/4/2015, at 9:33 AM, Jordan wrote: > On 5/4/2015, at 9:30 AM, Diogo wrote: > Racing ghost will tell for most of the community, your ghosts gain as randomly as wheel does On 5/4/2015, at 9:33 AM, Jordan wrote: > because mk8 is so precise about boosts and stuff On 5/4/2015, at 9:33 AM, Jordan wrote: > it will be impossible to tell On 5/4/2015, at 9:35 AM, Jordan wrote: > and its very hard to tell whether you are being outlined or the stats are different On 5/4/2015, at 9:38 AM, Jordan wrote: > because it is impossible to tell for sure 100% just by watching/racing the ghost On 5/4/2015, at 9:38 AM, Jordan wrote: > look at Lytes runs On 5/4/2015, at 9:38 AM, Jordan wrote: > he does wheel slides without wheel lmfao On 5/4/2015, at 9:38 AM, Jordan wrote: > are we gonna accuse him of dpad usage? On 5/4/2015, at 9:39 AM, Jordan wrote: > maybe he uses dpad but is only at the level that he can keep up with us, but not totally beat us On 5/4/2015, at 9:40 AM, Jordan wrote: > maybe he uses wheel dpad, and if he was better, he would destroy us On 5/4/2015, at 9:52 AM, Jordan wrote: > if I was to try to learn dpad, it would take me at least a few weeks before I would have potential to beat my stronger prs |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 05/04/15 at 09:02:44 Don't agree with Jordan. Chonko gained instantly on me on TR. It's so damn easy to notice the difference. As for this "new metagame," yea, more people are going to try this now, but that does not erase the time gain. Whatever decision is made I won't argue against, but I'm not switching. It's not my fault I'm unable to learn what I cannot learn. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 05/04/15 at 09:08:13 http://videogame.brando.com/wii-magic-stick_p00588c046d020.html tell me again you can't learn rofl ( i wont buy this btw ) |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 05/04/15 at 09:12:02 634E484048270 wrote:
Haha. I had no idea that existed. That wouldn't work though. I can already tell I'm better off just learning the pad itself. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Cole on 05/04/15 at 10:26:12 Wiimote dpad is definitely better than regular non-gyro controllers on some tracks. The disadvantage with the dpad is that it has limited input possibilities so it can't do tight softdrifts or small drift adjustments. dBP is probably the easiest course to use dpad on. I think most of the other tracks will be much more challenging for players to get WRs with dpad. I'm still open to doing separate charts, but I think we should wait a bit to see how the game progresses now that the dpad is becoming popular. If we do add a category for controllers that don't get the Wii Wheel boost, then what would it be called? Non-Handling Boost WRs? Anyways, I added an icon on the WR site for times done with Wiimote dpad. Are there any other WRs that used Wiimote dpad besides these? -My dBP -Jamie's dBP -K4I's dCL |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Sam F on 05/04/15 at 10:29:51 7D51525B7957525C5B4C4A3E0 wrote:
Non Wii Remote WRs? |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Suuper on 05/04/15 at 10:30:40 DPad has it's disadvantages, though. Ones that wheel does not have. 1) You lack precise control of turning/drifting. 2) Unless Nintendo changed this since the early days, softdrifting doesn't work as well. I used to use the wheel with DPad, but when I switched to nunchuck I instantly did better, because of those two advantages. Particularly on levels with difficult soft drifts. And (again, unless Nintendo changed it with one of the updates) wheel DPad isn't exactly the same as wheel gyro even ignoring those two points. I don't remember what the difference was, but here's the testing I did: Test A: -Go to the large ice part in GCN Sherbet Land, behind the finish. Or for non-slippery road go to a place like e.g. Ed after the second glider, with a high-drift/traction combo. -Drift in a circle, with a steady turn rate. (On rSL you'll need to wait several circles before you are actually making perfect circles.) -Pause, change controllers. If switching from game pad, you can do so by taking it out of the range of the Wii U. -Unpause, watch the difference in turning. Look at the tire marks to see where you were before. Test B: -Delete a ghost. -Play the level and hold right/left from the start. -Finish to create the ghost, and race it with another controller. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Cole on 05/04/15 at 10:31:58 72767672707070400 wrote:
Non Wii Remote WRs?[/quote] The problem with that name is that you can use motion controls with the gamepad. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by ALAKTORN on 05/04/15 at 11:19:11 Reminder that I learned to use WU Gamepad DPad for my DP3 WRs. We thought that thing also had an advantage over analogue stick, so are there even more advantage layers than simply Wiimote + motion and everything else? Is it three-layered? |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 05/04/15 at 12:46:44 220E0D0426080D03041315610 wrote:
1st sentence : I've already tried DPad Wiimote on rDDD for a bit. I can tell you this is the most painful shit I've ever played,hurts more than MKDS. But I could do tight softdrifts. The key to do it is basically starting as a normal drift then hold up and right/left at the same time. Even pulled off some 39.8 lap1 missing a mt. 3rd sentence : Non-Handling boost WRs seem fine,but a little bit too long. That's just me tho,and I can't think of another name. 4th sentence : Only those are for now set with Dpad wiimote. Tho,Jager's already using DPad on MC. As for the Gamepad DPad,it does turn tighter than Gamepad Analog,but still doesn't beat Wiimote DPad. For the tests, the deleting ghost thing is actually the best idea,since I often delete my ghosts and it's actually helpful to pr on a track again. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 05/04/15 at 13:13:20 How about Non-Boosted WRs? Might be unspecific, but I think everyone gets what we mean by that. Or Stick WRs, since that's the only control method that doesn't get the handling boost. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by ALAKTORN on 05/04/15 at 15:42:58 “Handling” is the wrong term in the first place, it’s a Drift-stat boost. Handling is steering while not drifting. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 05/04/15 at 16:23:23 Has the MK8 community considered attempting to band together to make like a petition, etc., to try and see if Nintendo has it in their power to somehow patch MK8 to make all control schemes equal? With big enough numbers, you WILL get their attention. MKW did it with certain cheaters back in 2009 or so, the SSBM community did it when they tried to restrict streaming rights for EVO 2013. Maybe with a stroke of luck, if everyone in the community banded together, you could do the same for MK8. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by ALAKTORN on 05/04/15 at 18:32:33 I get the feeling it would be pretty easy to patch away the boost, but that would invalidate pretty much all WRs and render the online charts unbeatable. As far as giving everything the boost, I wouldn’t count on it. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Marc on 05/04/15 at 19:41:09 inb4 wii u pro controller competitive edition with traction boost |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 05/09/15 at 14:44:01 So I was wondering if we do decide to make a separate category on the WR history, should we also have separate figures? Similar to what MKW once was with its "Including/Excluding No Glitch?" I think it'd be interesting and a good option to go for. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 05/16/15 at 09:19:26 Honestly preferring gamepad wheel over Dpad right now,because of the inputs dpad has. Sometimes it just doesn't go tight,or you have to touch it alot, hate that crap. Gamepad wheel > all ( can't use wiimote,too small ) |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Harmonia on 05/16/15 at 22:41:47 So Diogo found that, apparently, the Wii U Fight Pad: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LSBNSJA/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00LSBNSJA&linkCode=as2&tag=j070a-20&linkId=YV4VB4DKPXHL2L6T works with MK8 and has the same advantages as wheel/D-Pad, but with using the stick instead. You connect it to your Wiimote (like a Classic Controller). Now the question is, does a regular GCN Controller give the same advantages? What about this controller here? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ND0E5ZU/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00ND0E5ZU&linkCode=as2&tag=j070a-20&linkId=7LQVDF3WOE3YR2FQ ^ Same type of thing, I checked out a couple of reviews and people say this one is better. But would it give the same advantages? I'm assuming yes, but it'd be nice to have confirmation. Also, source: http://twitter.com/SadeMKH4/status/599804655774892033 |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 05/17/15 at 00:27:46 Bought the controller that Diogo says is like the wheel cheat. I guess I won't be going away from this game then. And if that controller really is a way for stick players to get the cheat, then there is no reason to have any separate charts. There's options for all types of players now. Regardless all of this is just some crazy shit. Diogo, you better be right man ;D |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by BDON on 05/17/15 at 05:48:09 Already bought the Wii Magic Stick, but I'd be willing to buy the GCN controller if it works. Wait for the pay2win complaints people. [smiley=lolk.gif] |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Raγ on 05/17/15 at 18:38:59 6E6A2A3F3D325A0 wrote:
It would be better if you could get it in stores rather than having to Amazon/eBay it tho ::) (I'm guessing it's one of those products made by some indie company that most "special controllers" come from that you can rarely get at your local store lol) |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Marc on 05/17/15 at 19:57:04 21272C2D630 wrote:
Well there's already the blue falcon 5664697146707760050 wrote:
They're just reshaped classic controllers It wouldn't make sense otherwise |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 05/17/15 at 20:07:51 So you can play this game with a GCN-esque controller eh? Might pick it up in the future then. Assuming these controllers really DO have the advantage of a wheel. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by SamH on 05/18/15 at 03:23:39 Looks like these new controllers having wiimote motion/dpad like traction is false according to people over on MKBoards :-/ (http://mkboards.com/forums/threads/wii-u-fight-pad-controller-works-with-mk8-has-wheel-advantages-false.15576/) Hopefully those that have bought one will like the controller regardless so it's not a wasted purchase |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 05/18/15 at 10:18:12 Well that's disappointing. More disappointed at Diogo than the actual truth. How is lying going to benefit anyone? I shouldn't have been so careless. I should have waited for more sufficient proof (like it driving on rDDD/rSL), but I so ecstatic and firmly believed him. Thankfully I was in need of a new controller, so if this feels and plays good it won't be a total waste of money. Though more than likely I'll end up just shelving this and getting a new pro controller instead ;D I'll surely test this on TTC when I get it, just to really confirm that this thing has no boost. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Harmonia on 05/18/15 at 21:03:24 3D39796C6E61090 wrote:
Well he didn't really lie, he just got a big PR racing his own ghost (rather than a Wheel ghost), and he said it was like 6am for him, so maybe he just thought it had wheel cheat. Would be great if you test it out though, because a top level player confirming or denying it is what we need to put this to rest for sure. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 05/18/15 at 23:04:26 Well he did post a bold claim, and in the end it turned out to lean towards false. If only he added words like perhaps, maybe, or possibly. But yea, you are right. There may still be some truth to what he said. This controller could outclass the pro controller, but be behind dpad/motion controls. I'll definitely notice the tiniest of differences, in due time. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Stacy1199 on 05/19/15 at 11:16:58 Ordered a fight pad that arrived today, no wheel hacks at all. Will try with a modded dpad later on, but I'm not expecting anything to come from it. Edit: Tried modding the dpad, still no hacks. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 05/25/15 at 23:38:02 77733326242B430 wrote:
I know it's obvious at this point, but I'll keep my word. Fight pad has no advantage. If it did I would've gained right at the start, and I would've noticed the smallest of gains before the first ramp, but I saw no gain. Not to mention this thing's a lot bulkier than it appears to be, the drift canceled on me on my second try even though it's brand new, and the stick is twice as high as what is deemed comfortable, essentially making d-pad easier to softdrift. So add all those factors and the fight pad is a piece of shit that I would never use even if it did have the boost. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by marca7 on 05/26/15 at 13:26:17 Those thrown words didn't have evidence to back it up, just goes to show how easily people get convinced because they trust someone. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by ALAKTORN on 05/27/15 at 06:22:05 7C7063727026110 wrote:
I would never throw money at something just because someone I know said something about it. Question everything, come to your own conclusions. If you don’t care about spending the money though I can understand the behaviour. It would only be stupid if they would then be mad at their findings. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 05/27/15 at 15:18:40 ^Well if everyone questioned Diogo and did not buy the controller, we never would have known its actual capabilities. It does suck that people wasted their money though just for no progress on the situation. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 07/06/15 at 11:29:08 Separate charts definitely need to be made in my opinion. Seems like we are like only 5 players to use the D-Pad at a competitive level.Not sure if it's actually worth though,since people just seem to love to quit because D-Pad runs are a thing now Not sure if you'll agree with this Cole but that's clearly what I think right now. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 07/07/15 at 03:09:51 People wouldn't be quitting if this thing was established the day I made this thread. Such a straight-forward plan isn't taking action and I do not know why. What are we waiting for? Improve this game for the greater good already. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Alternate Sinuous on 07/07/15 at 14:18:38 Yeah please separate the charts, it needs to happen I am a d-padder, and I want it separated. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Fisico on 07/10/15 at 10:03:51 Seperate charts are a brilliant idea imo [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Cole on 07/13/15 at 18:11:27 IMO just having a WR table on my site is not enough for a non-boost category. If the community really wants a new category there should be a top 10 thread/site as well (or a top 5 if 10 is too much). Think about the future when the Nintendo charts are filled with D-pad times. In general I just haven't seen much community enthusiasm about this category. There isn't a BKT thread or a top 10 thread on this site or MKBoards. People aren't recording videos of their non-boost BKTs either. I don't personally feel strongly about making separate charts anymore because I view the D-pad more like a new strat. Top players can adapt to it much easier than the Wheel. Also, it is much easier to optimize times with the D-pad than the Wheel. When you switch to D-pad, all your track knowledge gets carried over, so the time you spent with a regular controller is still useful. I don't think it would be bad for this game if we just keep one chart and encourage players to switch to D-pad, so that the fastest possible times will be reached. That is just my own opinion and I would still be willing to make new charts if the community wants, but like I said, I haven't seen much community enthusiasm. @Jacob saying this is "straight-forward": An example of a truly straight-forward decision was adding MKWiii Non-SC to the WR site and PP. The community had top 10s and videos already and it was clear that everyone wanted it. It's also much easier to determine if a MKWiii run is Non-SC than to determine if a MK8 run was done with D-pad. Look at the new Big Blue WR (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2intDYLDnQ). Diogo is saying it might be D-pad, but there is no icon on the WR site since no one knows for sure. Ok it's not a big deal now because it is just an icon. But if there was a separate category we would need a much better way of determining which controller was used. I'm also wondering if the MC WR is done with D-pad or not. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 07/14/15 at 13:49:43 I agree with no community enthusiasm, and the need for more change besides on your site, but the rest no. All you've done is proven my point that this game and it's community is the worst I've ever seen. I said straight-forward because I thought we had a solid plan to at least start moving this thing to realism. But then months passed by and shit wasn't getting done, and now you're scratching your head wondering whether some runs are d-paded, or where the stick bkt's are. Had this been well-established when it should have been there's no doubt we would have had everything put together by now. How can you possibly say to the players that you must use d-pad/wheel to compete? Oh, because yes, it's all about the fastest times and not the unfairness of it all. We as a community are gonna tell the stick players to fuck off, you just wasted your time devoting yourself to the game for a year now. Goldie, Twi, Jordan to name a few are forever fucked and can't get the representation they deserve. And soon, as you said, we can look forward to more d-pad/wheel domination and more stick records getting destroyed with no way out. Great competition. It's not about who's actually the best at each track anymore, but instead it's just who can use d-pad/wheel the best. Surely you must understand why I am this motivated about making this an actuality. I've played TTC well over 70% of the total time I've played this game, and now all of my dedication and devotion to improvising every single portion of the track is thrown away because the reality is TTC will get dpaded one day, and it would be futile for me to play because I wouldn't be able to get it back. It would be out of my limits, but not because of a skill limit, but because of a controller limitation. Again I say, that's truly what competition is about! Please. Let me tell you something: humans are not identical with one another. You expect everyone to just switch to dpad because a few others, including yourself, already have done so? Well Twi and myself are a couple good exceptions. Diogo and Drogon have constantly stated how fucking terrible the wiimote actually is in terms of comfort. Why on earth should I ever feel obligated to switch to a hand-killer piece of shit of a controller when I can use the controller that suits best for me, and has been for the past year. Oh, but wait, it's useless now because it's all about the fastest time, and using it automatically costs anywhere from .500 to a second. You can agree with me, the correct side, or you can disagree with me and I won't get two shits about it. Competition is fairness over fastest times, and MKW, SMK, etc. understood that. But because it's less obvious than a fucking glitch, or NTSC version being seconds faster than the PAL version, that does not warrant change? Or because not too many people think as strongly as I do, that doesn't warrant change either? Well there you go. No one gives a shit about this game anymore because of how laughable its community is, so go ahead and continue to think as you are and not do a damn thing about fixing this problem. Surely no one's going to care about not doing anything, as people who use d-pad/wheel will continue to play the game because they've got nothing to complain about, and the stick players will go on to play better and more organized games instead of false competing in this game. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 07/15/15 at 05:31:04 1E3231381A34313F382F295D0 wrote:
And I honestly thought that only Fgt guy ( Sergeant Guy ) and I see the dpad as possibly the biggest new strat of all time. Dang. But I've got to disagree about DPad being easier to optimize than wheel. I just don't have a constant access to a TV to use the wheel often and at its best level. As to know what time is dpaded or not,we just have to race it. I've raced Jager's MC and I can confirm that it was dpaded,but he kept holding up during long turns. For Big Blue,I only think it's dpaded because of how weird the S1 beginning was,and the section 3 hops at the beginning were done. Clearly looked like he either didn't know what to do,or wasn't used at all to the controller. I can understand that players can be upset because of the dpad was used,but good lord,don't even bring twi on this thread. His salt can be so insane that it can make people literraly play less the game ( Chonko3 ) . He even wanted to make alts to knock off "advantaged" players,lol. But what I wonder most about right now is that if you have seen fgt's pr on TTC jacob because it really looks like TTC will be one of the tracks where dpad saves the most unfortunaly. The funniest thing out of all of this : I think Nintendo tried to patch huge glitches that could save time by intending advantaged controllers. A small fuck up there, tbh I'd rather have a glitch category than that because some glitches look cool and are hard to do. To make the dpad less painful I also just put it into my wii wheel so it feels nicer to use. but of course I can use it any way. Don't try BDD with dpad though,that shit is the real pain @_@ |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Cole on 07/15/15 at 11:23:36 I definitely understand why people want separate charts, and I agree that Nintendo really messed up the controllers in this game. I just disagree that it's a 100% easy decision like you are saying Jacob. For your "wasting time" argument, look at some examples in MKWii. On RR anyone who used bike now has to switch to kart to get WR, which is a completely different way of playing. On MH, imagine if someone grinded that track to get a perfect 1:43.500 with auto... well they would have eventually lost to manual and almost everything they learned on the track would be irrelevant for getting back WR. With D-pad, yes some people will be better at it, but personally I found that everything I learned on rMC carried over when I switched to D-pad. That is why I view it as a new strat. I work on the WR sites in my free time. At the moment I just don't feel like spending my time making separate charts and trying to solve this game's problems. My suggestion for the stick players is to make a top 5 site for stick times (similar to MKW's top10: http://mkwtops.weebly.com). You could have multiple updaters and figure out a system for verifying if a time is D-pad or not. Quote:
I checked Jager's Miiverse and he says he used Pro Controller: https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYIHAAAEAAArVRToy7wtpw Quote:
There are also many controller grips for Wiimotes, like this: http://i.imgur.com/EyonYyr.jpg I haven't used these, but they might help for comfort. Google wiimote grip to find more examples. I also found out about a controller called "8bitdo SNES30" today: http://www.8bitdo.com/snes30/ It is an SNES-style controller that you can use as a Wiimote, so it should give the advantage in MK8. Looking at the manual for Wiimote mode (http://www.8bitdo.com/snes30/manual.html), I think the buttons would be B=accel, Y=hop, X/A = shroom. In the future they might let you remap the buttons so that you can use R for hopping. I do not own this controller so I can not guarantee if it works well with MK8, people will have to do their own research and buy it if they are interested. Here is a video of it on Yoshi's Woolly World: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61MxqNJ42Js |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 07/16/15 at 03:26:28 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi3TvraA73Y[/media] Just seeing all the salt there doesn't make me really hyped about making a top5 thread If you guys care so much about getting separate charts,prove it |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Mick on 07/16/15 at 06:32:45 I don't want to talk much about it since it is still months away, but we plan for the new PP site to have controller icons on the record charts like the current WR site does, with toggles to add/remove groups of controllers (dynamically if possible), thus granting them some sort of recognition and allowing the players to roughly what times they can expect to reach depending on the option used. Until then, it's too much effort to change anything for both the existing PP site (not that Alex would ever accept that anyway) or for the WR site relative to the general interest of the community. As Cole stated, there have been no efforts made whatsoever from the best players to actively keep track of the best times for each input option in an attempt to valorise karters' efforts. Instead opting to rag on and discourage those going for the fastest options and actually trying to push the game's limits like Diogo and some others. This discriminatory, destructive behavior, is what is unnerving and pushing people away from the game, not the game's oddball choices. PS: The NTSC and PAL versions of Super Mario Kart are slightly different games, with their own quirks in physics, controls, offraod behavior...etc. This is not a fair comparison to MK8 where everyone has the same version and the changes broughts by the different controls are merely stat boosts. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by MaxLAD on 07/16/15 at 07:47:10 5A7C796C7B50667A616038090 wrote:
I'm fairly sure the behavior is being caused by the stupid advantage, and there wouldn't be so many stupid, unresolved arguments if separate charts were made. However you are right that no one has made any charts yet, but that's the point... That's what they want on the WR site. But you are right. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by .Hahaae on 07/16/15 at 08:50:11 Jacob, you chose the wrong game to compare PAL/NTSC xD They're not comparable because they're literally two different games. Games where they ARE comparable (via a conversion rate), are compared (MK64/MKDD). Jus' sayin. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 07/16/15 at 12:15:25 7F7F7F170 wrote:
I never played SMK so I didn't know the little differences that Mick pointed out. Still, stats are part of the game just like offroad, physics, etc. so I still don't understand how the comparison is completely shut down when grasping at my point (not actually comparing the two games). 17313421361D2B372C2D75440 wrote:
Yes, those that do that are idiots. The smart people that want separate charts are concerned about their potential, and they willingly know they cannot compete against those that use wheel/dpad unless they force themselves to use something they hate using. Plus, the people that worked forever on a track (myself, Kyser, Twi, etc.) inevitably got/will get beaten by dpad/wheel, and thus all of their efforts were a waste because they got defeated unfairly (it is unfair: one person/ghost without the extra stats, another with the stats) and still want some recognition via separate charts and WRs. That's our concern, not the salt coming from kids. 5375706572596F73686931000 wrote:
This sentence is so wrong on so many ways. People are quitting (the stick players) because they know there's a problem that clearly won't get fixed by the people who have the power to fix it. Well that shuts down the meaning of a community now doesn't it? The majority vote on top of this thread. The views of so many others besides myself in favor of separate charts. All of it means nothing and instead gets viewed as discriminatory and destructive? I am simply appalled. As a MK8 player this problem going in the right direction means everything to me, but outside of it I couldn't care less. Now I don't care after reading that. I'll watch from the sidelines where this game goes and I'll help around in this game's community only when it deserves it. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Fisico on 07/17/15 at 11:42:54 Personally, I think you can't call changing to an other (advantaged) controller a new strat. For me a new strat is about implementing new MTs or SCs, other shroom spots etc and not changing to a new controller. I'd say it's just another way of playing. Despite the difficulties you'll encounter when trying to make seperate charts, I think it's still a good idea when looking at the future. Seperate charts will (hopefully) prevent the game from a huge loss in activity in the next few months. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Twi on 07/18/15 at 19:36:03 141050454748200 wrote:
^ This. :) Anyways, I just wanted to say I would be willing to do the separate charts for this game. That is, if it's okay with you Cole I think it'd be better if we could talk about this on Skype (I was told you're unable to do it yourself since you don't have enough time) My reason for doing this is because I want to be able to give the stick WRs the recognition they deserve. I'm just really tired of complaining about the advantage for well over a month and nothing happening, so I just decided instead of arguing over it, I'd rather make the charts myself. [smiley=dankk2.gif] |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by RRD on 07/19/15 at 10:16:51 507C7F76547A7F71766167130 wrote:
634E484048270 wrote:
For reference: https://miiverse.nintendo.net/replies/AYMHAAACAAADVHkP4CngUA “Thanks,everyone! I use Nunchaku style.” http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/29/1437329730-kg36ysi-jp-nikuman-lemon-48-dbb-1-23-983-miiverse-comment-controller-nunchuk.png |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 07/20/15 at 01:20:06 052638510 wrote:
I hope some of you are actually taking this seriously so it doesn't have to be just him doing everything. For the record Twi I don't have Skype, but please feel free to pm me here (it'd be better than miiverse) if you want to update me on progress, or just need help in general. I want this to be a community effort, but if it's just me and you then I'm fine with it. I do apologize for being brash to you Cole, which is why I deleted one of my posts (if you noticed anyway). You obviously understand my point so there was no reason for me to make anymore unneeded posts against you. I want everything else I said to also no longer have any meaning. So let's go Twi :) |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Twi on 07/20/15 at 01:37:33 2A2E6E7B79761E0 wrote:
I hope some of you are actually taking this seriously so it doesn't have to be just him doing everything. For the record Twi I don't have Skype, but please feel free to pm me here (it'd be better than miiverse) if you want to update me on progress, or just need help in general. I want this to be a community effort, but if it's just me and you then I'm fine with it. I do apologize for being brash to you Cole, which is why I deleted one of my posts (if you noticed anyway). You obviously understand my point so there was no reason for me to make anymore unneeded posts against you. I want everything else I said to also no longer have any meaning. So let's go Twi :)[/quote] I have plenty of people who would be willing to help me with this, such as Kyser, Luso, Danny, you, Sinuous, and many more. Of course it's going to be a community effort, I probably should've been more detailed in that post however if this is going to happen we need to do something about it now. Too many people are quitting, and I myself already decided to quit if this really doesn't work. Thanks Jacob, I'll do that whenever I need your help [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Still awaiting a response from Cole about this, I talked to Mindscarp already however he doesn't have the ability to make the structure for separate charts. He's only an updater, which is why I need Cole's help. If he could just do the structure for it, I, along with many others of the community would be willing to update them ourselves. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 07/20/15 at 01:43:09 Oh, alright. That is quite refreshing to see that it'll be more than 1-2 people working on this. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by ChriMK on 07/20/15 at 02:34:37 I'm also ready to help with this in any way possible if you guys need any of it. Hopefully this works out for all of us! :) -fgt |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Suuper on 07/20/15 at 10:30:57 56756B020 wrote:
Based on what Cole said earlier, I don't think he's going to do anything with the WR site until after your charts work out. You'll have to make a thread to track it, much like the BKS thread. (or the MKWii top 10 site he linked to) 113D3E37153B3E30372026520 wrote:
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Twi on 07/20/15 at 14:55:36 I would need somebody to help us with the top5/top10 thread then. Unfortunately I don't have the time to do an entire top 10 thread after willingly updating every single stick WR onto Cole's site with every combo. I'll try to see if there's anybody who can help with that... Is there any suggestions that anybody knows would be willing to do this? I believe Ice was the former American top 10 thread updater, but quit because of the controller advantages. Could somebody ask him, maybe? If not I'll try to find somebody else. I'm just glad finally we're making steps forward instead of doing nothing about this. [smiley=happy.gif] |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by ALAKTORN on 07/20/15 at 17:09:40 4B4B5D190 wrote:
So basically he doesn’t use DPad? ;D Have fun enforcing something you can’t even know is being used. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 07/21/15 at 06:46:37 0508050F100B160A440 wrote:
So basically he doesn’t use DPad? ;D Have fun enforcing something you can’t even know is being used.[/quote] He does raced his ghost with dpad could keep up + used same inputs outside of first turn gamepad couldnt at some parts : ) looks like we have a similar mkw talk since people seem to like to lie about whatever they do in game |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Twi on 07/22/15 at 11:19:53 Small update: Ice has agreed to do the non-advantaged top 10 |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Captain Strong on 07/24/15 at 11:33:37 Seperate chart for wii wheel users? No way m8 |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by ALAKTORN on 07/26/15 at 11:41:26 04292F272F400 wrote:
Maybe he’s just better than you. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Silver on 07/28/15 at 08:40:08 mk8 memes |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Twi on 08/14/15 at 11:57:22 Random update http://mkboards.com/forums/threads/non-advantage-top-tens.18438/ Just waiting on a response from Cole to update MKWRs and then I think we've got everything, there's plenty of people willing to upload Stick WR's. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Cole on 08/15/15 at 01:37:53 I may add non-advantage WRs to mkwrs eventually but at the moment I have no plans to. Keep in mind that it requires changing the site's code and design quite a bit to add a new category, and I currently don't feel like working on that. But yes, I think it is good that a top 10 has been made and have linked it on the main page and the side panel. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by MaxLAD on 08/16/15 at 03:14:19 I think that adding the link is a very good idea and it is appreciated that it will take time to make a new category. I am willing to help record the Stick WRs and link them to the thread. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by ALAKTORN on 08/17/15 at 13:41:15 Can someone explain to me the DPad advantage? What DPads get this? Does the Wii U gamepad get the massive advantage? |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Diogo on 08/17/15 at 13:52:00 4D404D4758435E420C0 wrote:
Wii Remote only. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by ALAKTORN on 08/17/15 at 14:30:20 476A6C646C030 wrote:
Lol. I should try it. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK8 on 08/17/15 at 21:49:12 0F020F051A011C004E0 wrote:
0924222A224D0 wrote:
My guess as to why it's wiimote only is because it has to be in the wheel to use the wheel. All other controllers are not compatible with the wheel, and thus do not have the advantage. Also, iIrc, the wheel icon appears when you use the wiimote only in MKW, so it's safe to assume the two controllers are linked together functioning-wise (which, of course, is apparent here). |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by RRD on 09/13/15 at 06:32:33 616C616B746F726E200 wrote:
74595F575F300 wrote:
1B161B110E1508145A0 wrote:
[ch12395][ch12367][ch12414][ch12435] / lemon once again said he uses Wiimote + Nunchuk on Big Blue: https://miiverse.nintendo.net/replies/AYMHAAACAAADVHkb9VQN7w “I use WiiChuck.” http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/37/1442154075-kg36ysi-jp-nikuman-lemon-48-dbb-1-23-816-miiverse-comment-wiimote-nunchuk.png (http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/37/1442154075-kg36ysi-jp-nikuman-lemon-48-dbb-1-23-816-miiverse-comment-wiimote-nunchuk.png) Several months after the Wiimote D-Pad advantage was discovered (https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYIHAAAEAAASVRTlaxtZWw), still no one has presented a better way of distinguishing controllers than “it looks like it” or “I raced it”. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Sorozone on 10/04/15 at 11:38:06 Yo. I'm too lazy too look up all the discussions regarding this dpad thing. What exactly is the advantage? Faster MT's or something? |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by Rhodechill on 10/04/15 at 12:23:37 0A362B362336373C590 wrote:
Can take turns tighter. I believe it gives the same exact advantage as a tilt controls user would get. Insanely helpful on tracks like rDDD and Cheeseland. |
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Title: Re: Have Separate Charts/WRs for Wheel Players Post by JACOB@MK7 on 10/04/15 at 12:30:41 734F524F5A4F4E45200 wrote:
1. It is seconds faster than a stick controller on tracks that are only offroad (so rDDD, rSL, etc). 2. It has superior momentum sliding. This means dpad has the potential to break stick records on the rest of the tracks, except for RR (it requires break drifting, and dpad cannot do that). 2a. This can lead to strats only faster to use with the dpad (compare the very beginning of the current MW WR and the former WR). 3. It has more powerful boosts, which means firehopping is stronger compared to the stick; this is also a contributor to the dpads superior momentum sliding. If you watched Kasper's streams, he gains a shit ton at the string of boost panels at the end of dWW compared to the former WR, a stick record. 4. Dpad used with blue falcon/strettle seems to be the best combination for many of the tracks, but on some of the tracks, blue falcon/strettle is not faster or the same for a stick user compared to mach 8 (look at BC history). 5. Keep in mind that the wheel also has these advantages. The general disadvantage I can think of when using dpad (besides the mentioned inability to brake drift) is that you sacrifice precise driving, mainly because the controller itself is terrible. However, I do believe every current dpad record can be shaved down by a considerable amount with better optimization, and tracks where it is currently held by the stick will be beaten by the dpad as long as people continue to play the game. Just take a look at the rGV history. Prime example of the dpad's brokenness actually getting used properly (the current record can still go down by another .500 at least). This speaks to me that dpad should be faster by at least .800 compared to the stick records on the majority of the tracks (dpad is only slower on the mentioned RR and maybe DS). For the record, the closest a dpad record is to optimization is rMC and dMC imo. |
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