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Mario Kart >> Mario Kart Wii >> Let's Craft The New Site Policies
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Message started by MVT on 07/21/12 at 09:24:39

Title: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MVT on 07/21/12 at 09:24:39

---
Any player that is caught using modifications of the Wii hardware or software during time trials is barred from the Mario Kart Wii Players Page for life and all of their times are thus invalidated from our community.
---

I think this needs to be our foundation. Any problems with it voice them here!

~~~~~~

Other things that need to be dealt with and/or dramatically overhauled:

-proof standards
-trust systems
-etc?

I felt the need to make this thread specifically for these purposes since the other threads are too clouded with banter, spam, who's-legit, who's-not, and other shit. This thread is dedicated particularly and only for making this website and community better. No off-topic. Let's rebuild this place from the ground up.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Uade on 07/21/12 at 09:25:40

I have no problem with this.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Utter on 07/21/12 at 09:26:02

Close the site.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by ALAKTORN on 07/21/12 at 09:28:00

that’s a good rule to have, yes

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Shock on 07/21/12 at 09:46:16

When starting a TT session, from the time that you start everything up on your Wii, only three ingredients allowed: game, Wii, controller. Period. Anything else = no. Not even music - that stuff can set your mood and stress levels at an advantage to those who can't change the music. If you want to listen to custom music, mute the game and play from your mp3 player or computer.

Basically, I agree with the standard in the OP.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by -Zoan- on 07/21/12 at 09:49:37

555A504D5E58415A5051515A340 wrote:

Ok then remove ZRoyal and Doom ;)

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Shock on 07/21/12 at 09:51:52

For using custom music? They did that while it was still considered "legal", yes?

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by ROM on 07/21/12 at 09:55:44

The custom music rule has always been ambiguous for some players even though i strongly agree with people like MVT or Shock that it should be strictly forbidden. As of now i don't really think that we should punish any player who has used custom music for his past records.

But we need to spread the message that this is definitely against the rules of the site, and establish a date or a period starting from which any record which uses custom music has no value.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by kuigl on 07/21/12 at 09:56:12

Zroyal drove his most recent rMR times without custom textures if thats what you mean. (afaik)

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by J-Cop on 07/21/12 at 10:05:43

I honestly don't see the point in banning custom music. It may make time trialing more bearable if you're listening to music that doesn't suck, but if that's the case, then listening to your iPod while you time trial should also be illegal. And what about having a different tv on in the background that you can listen to? Those things would give the same advantage that custom music would, yet those aren't illegal.

I'm not saying that we should change the rule, I just feel like I'm missing something in all of this. If anyone cares to explain it, please do.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Shock on 07/21/12 at 10:09:14

503759756A1A0 wrote:

I'm not saying that we should change the rule, I just feel like I'm missing something in all of this. If anyone cares to explain it, please do.

There's a subtle difference - listening to your iPod or mp3 player is something any player can do. Modifying the music in the game is not something everyone can or will do. Preprogrammed custom music that repeats every run will also subconsciously influence the timing of your inputs, whereas non-game-dependent music coming from a "third party" source will tend to be more random and less "instructive" to your brain.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Zwiebel on 07/21/12 at 10:13:54

Why is there still a discussion about custom music and shit? ffs this discussion was there already and it's banned.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Liam A on 07/21/12 at 10:42:24

I think that if a player is frozen on suspicion that they are using cheats, a live stream must be shown to trustworthy members of the community.

Wii menu must be shown on start-up
Tracks must be played on request
Random movements must also be made on request to show that the stream is not pre-recorded

This stream must also be delivered within a certain amount of time. If the player fails to comply, they shall be deleted from the Players' Page.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Mr.Nosey on 07/21/12 at 14:28:11

53626B6B53666B62070 wrote:

---
Any player that is caught using modifications of the Wii hardware or software during time trials is barred from the Mario Kart Wii Players Page for life and all of their times are thus invalidated from our community.
Other things that need to be dealt with and/or dramatically overhauled:

-proof standards
-trust systems
-etc?

I agree with this statement. Is using the s-o-m that Sword mentioned allowed though? I don't personally use it, but better to clarify the exact rules now.

Shall we also conduct another review of the proof-tick system in this thread then? I personally remember the last time we were very quick to give someone a yellow tick based on a very trusted player putting in a word for a less trusted one, which was a bit too soft.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Brett on 07/21/12 at 15:15:46

Probably the only time you'll ever see me agree with MVT.

Proof standards are probably fine tbh. No other MK site forces you to live stream in order to get a green tick or anything. In MK64 having videos is sufficient proof since most people don't have a capture card (meaning they point a camera at the tv screen and record it, making it obviously a console video), and I know myself I claim a lot of times that I don't have videos for but nobody ever questions me. So if anything, MKW has the strictest proof requirements of all the sites. That's not necessarily a bad thing, I just can't see how to make it better.

I feel like MKW is just different. The people here get greedy and feel some strange desire to cheat to get to the top, which is just wrong. And it's people like this that ruin it for the rest of us. That's one of the reasons I'd never do a live stream, because I'm not gonna let a few people that choose to cheat their way to the top ruin it for me. And now what? People that have live streamed are now being caught hacking for their times. So what's next? Does a strongly trusted person (probably an admin) have to show up at your house and watch you play live and only PR's you get in front of him count? The way you guys are going, it wouldn't surprise me. However, I'm sure everyone here can see how impractical that is.

I think the one thing that's fucked up about the site is having SC as the main ranking but yeah it's too late to change anything about that.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Timothy on 07/21/12 at 15:25:24

Banning custom textures/music is beyond retarded. Almost as retarded as rapid fire D-pads lololololol.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Zwiebel on 07/21/12 at 17:04:54

393330332D334A0 wrote:

Banning custom textures/music is beyond retarded. Almost as retarded as rapid fire D-pads lololololol.

Please, use your brain. Especially costum textures, which can give you better hints where to align yourself...how can you the fuck think it should be legit to use it? Using any modification to change the gaming experience should be forbidden strictly. The music also has a great effect on your playing ability, even if you might not believe it. If you listen to music outwards of the game, it probably won't restart every time you restart. It's something entirely different if you have music through the game or through an other device.

Also iirc all of this was already discused and banned. I don't see why we have to state the obvious once again.

Edit: One example so also stupid people can understand it:

Just imagine custom textures weren't banned. So, I will make custom textures on a track and MARK THE OPTIMAL ROUTE WITH A RED LINE. So I'd just have to try and to hit that route, which would be much easier than guessing all the time.

If you really think that would be cool and should be legit, you're beyond my understanding.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Timothy on 07/21/12 at 17:18:19

Well I don't know how texture packs work/how they are made/how precise they can be in terms of what "markings" can be put where so in that sense I'm not informed enough to say.

The music part is a complete non issue though, honestly. If I still played this game I'd refuse to play if this rule was enforced because on principle it's utterly preposterous, even though I have no idea how to alter game music.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Zwiebel on 07/21/12 at 17:25:26

2C26252638265F0 wrote:

The fuck is the problem. You see, not everyone plays through illegal homebrew channels. So not everyone can change the game to have another music; those who can have an advantage over those who can't. Because they can just implement it in the game, it will restart all the time you restart.

Those other ones can't have it that easily, they'd have to manually restart the song all the time, which makes it unfair to be used for those who cannot do it. Also not to mention, that it's hard for a human to start the music always precisely at the same moment. It's just not possible, which gives the player without music mod another disadvantage over the modded one.

This is the argument basically. If you don't agree with it, then it's your right to stop playing if this is enforced.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Timothy on 07/21/12 at 17:28:18

I don't play, and yeah shit it'd make all the fucking difference to the rankings. [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Zwiebel on 07/21/12 at 17:29:25

6B6162617F61180 wrote:

I don't play, and yeah shit it'd make all the fucking difference to the rankings. [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

"It's shit anyway I don't care about an argument"

Ya go and whine somewhere else, in my eyes my argument is solid, if it's not I'd like to hear a rebuttal.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by RVZ on 07/21/12 at 19:17:56

I don't think a thread about this will work. The best way to make certain rules is a chat discussion with just a few players. Like the same shit we did on the standards.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by ALAKTORN on 07/22/12 at 08:18:31

it worked already, just make a news update stating what MVT wrote

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Silver on 07/22/12 at 16:54:23

7944494E595F5D512B0 wrote:

Completely agree with this other than the last sentence ::)

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Liam A on 07/22/12 at 17:01:52

003D303720262428520 wrote:

I think the one thing that's fucked up about the site is having SC as the main ranking but yeah it's too late to change anything about that.

It's not too late at all [smiley=happy.gif]

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MVT on 07/22/12 at 17:39:32

030E0309160D100C420 wrote:

it worked already, just make a news update stating what MVT wrote

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Blackyboi on 07/23/12 at 15:49:45

So Sword is gonna be banned because he records TTs which means he loads TT mode while using a modification of the Wii.
Way to go MVT.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by TheFrigz on 07/23/12 at 15:58:38

1D333E3C346C665F0 wrote:

I'm a worse poster than MVT and Jaws combined.

Fixed it for you.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MrL1193 on 07/23/12 at 16:10:36

I'll stick an announcement in the next news update I write--which will probably be next week, since I want to allow more time for the smoke to clear. To be honest, though, I thought everyone should have already gotten this by now. This isn't the first time we've talked about so-called "harmless" modifications, and, for the most part, we always agreed that they shouldn't be used during Time Trials. I hope the message gets through to everyone this time.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MVT on 07/23/12 at 20:14:11

Just copy paste the line from the first post onto the sign up page for the website and your good to go.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MVT on 07/23/12 at 20:29:20

75444D4D75404D44210 wrote:

[quote author=536C522F2F272D1E0 link=1342792346/0#19 date=1343089866]Thus, his 2010/2011 WR's have been allowed to stand, for now.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MKchouy93 on 07/23/12 at 20:49:25

Your theories that custom music gives an unfair advantage due to it influencing your 'brain patterns' is complete bs. I understand textures and things like that, but music hacks really are harmless. I know that a line has to be drawn somewhere at what is and is not allowed and it would be much simpler to just say anything beyond loading the game in the disk drive is hacking, but the fact is the majority of the people who make these rules don't even play the game themselves anymore.

Whether or not you make this a rule, I know that I and many others will continue to not care about the rule and will continue playing with custom music. It'd be a shame for so many players' legitimate times to not be counted by the PP.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MrL1193 on 07/23/12 at 21:04:29

17262F2F17222F26430 wrote:

[quote author=75444D4D75404D44210 link=1342792346/0#20 date=1343104112][quote author=536C522F2F272D1E0 link=1342792346/0#19 date=1343089866]Thus, his 2010/2011 WR's have been allowed to stand, for now.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MVT on 07/23/12 at 21:25:49

72745C57504A460E0F0F3F0 wrote:

That's too bad, because that decision was made in 2010. Too bad you missed the boat on that one.

132C126F6F676D5E0 wrote:

[quote author=17262F2F17222F26430 link=1342891479/25#30 date=1343104160][quote author=75444D4D75404D44210 link=1342792346/0#20 date=1343104112][quote author=536C522F2F272D1E0 link=1342792346/0#19 date=1343089866]Thus, his 2010/2011 WR's have been allowed to stand, for now.

I find that to be quite tragic. Thanks for letting me know, I didn't realize that was the case. I'm not sure who was in the authority position to make such a decision, especially apparently privately without consulting the community, but I definitely look forward to looking into it further and making a stink about it.[/quote]

Since when in the flying fuck is this the case regarding Jorge? Enlighten me.[/quote]
It doesn't have anything to do with this site. Jorge is banned from MKW, MK64, and all the others now. And if this plays out anything like Fenner's case, there won't even be a record of Jorge's reign left on the Past Champions page. However, Jorge's old WR's are still counted in the WR history on Cole's site. I believe his Daisy Circuit is one of them, which means that he still has credit for a current WR. This is because, due to the level of skill he showed in the past, it is believed that he only recently resorted to cheating, in response to the threat from Jay.

Look, I know this isn't going to sit well with you, MVT, because you've been calling him out from the beginning, and you thought that this discovery would vindicate what you said. But, believe it or not, a lot of people still do not believe that your original accusations were correct. Personally, I don't know any more which of Jorge's times were legit and which weren't (kind of like what happened with Fenner). But I definitely believe he was talented enough to set WR's legitimately, and I believe that's exactly what he did for a while. It's just a shame that he threw it away trying to beat someone who wasn't legitimate in the first place.[/quote]

How completely biased and one sided that shit is. To claim that just because the kid had talent, we should not invalidate his past records, might be the biggest crock of shit I've ever seen, and you have no right whatsoever to make that decision either. If Cole wants to ruin the legitimacy of his WR history website, than so be it, that's his call. But the players page should not recognize that Jorge ever even had a WR before. To the player's page, it should be treated as if he never even existed. I find this to be even more incredibly one-sided because when mander was caught the same way (on one particular time only, exact same as Jorge) everyone unanimously declared that all of his past WRs are removed. I agree with such a stance! But for Jorge we are treating him specially and being nice to him? ...just because of what you claim his "talents" are. I'm sure mander also has very legitimate natural talents as well, but Jorge gets a free pass because a few of you are buddies with him? If you ever want to fix this community this NONSENSE where certain people are treated superiorly compared to others and there are double standards all over the place needs to be halted immediately.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MrL1193 on 07/23/12 at 21:28:43

0D0B23282F3539717070400 wrote:

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MrL1193 on 07/23/12 at 21:43:53

MVT, it's not my decision. Jorge's times are already off the site, and he will probably be taken down from the Past Champions page by an admin at some point. There will be no record left of him on the Players' Page, as you said, because that's the official site policy. But that's all I have any influence over. People will still be able to decide for themselves whether or not to believe individual runs he's made in the past, and I have no control over that. If Cole, NMeade, Sword, Aruba, and others in the community still want to keep some record of his old times and still believe that he was the best player in the world, that's their choice, not mine.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MKchouy93 on 07/23/12 at 23:23:50

5A655B26262E24170 wrote:

[quote author=0D0B23282F3539717070400 link=1342891479/25#31 date=1343105365]Your theories that custom music gives an unfair advantage due to it influencing your 'brain patterns' is complete bs. I understand textures and things like that, but music hacks really are harmless. I know that a line has to be drawn somewhere at what is and is not allowed and it would be much simpler to just say anything beyond loading the game in the disk drive is hacking, but the fact is the majority of the people who make these rules don't even play the game themselves anymore.

Whether or not you make this a rule, I know that I and many others will continue to not care about the rule and will continue playing with custom music. It'd be a shame for so many players' legitimate times to not be counted by the PP.

Chouy, while it would indeed be much easier to just let this slide, if we want to enforce a completely level playing field, we have to weed out even the tiniest of advantages. It doesn't have to be because the music gives you cues for your actions; just think in terms of motivation. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has sometimes picked a favorite level, stage, track, etc. in a game based on its music rather than the actual gameplay. Imagine how much more you could enjoy playing a track in Mario Kart Wii if you could listen to your favorite music instead of the same old tunes. You'd probably be able to play longer and keep your cool better, right? In fact, you probably could get more done than a rival who is stuck with the stale in-game music. That's all it takes to give you an advantage. And that's why Sword and ZRoyal had to agree to stop using custom music some time back. I'm not sure why Doom didn't, but I hope he doesn't force us into a situation of having to discount a WR for such a small advantage, because I know he could improve the WR without it if he could just find the motivation to do so.[/quote]

There's tons of things that add to the motivation of players and I don't think motivation is what's in question. If there's a time that I want to get, then that's it, I'm going to get that time whether or not my favorite song is playing. Pretty much all of my best times have been done without custom music with the exception of one or two. When I'm 'motivated' whether it be because a rival just beat my time or I saw an awesome video making me want to play or whatever the case may be, I will put in the effort to get my time despite the music I'm listening to. No offense but Royal didn't switch out of riivolution because the PP told him to, but pretty much to just give a slap in the face to anybody saying he only subbed rMR due to textures (went and beat it right after by .2xx without textures.) The point is, I decide when I stop and the music plays no other role than just that. Most of the people who read this don't even play the game themselves anymore and don't understand what really keeps a player on a track, so they can just blabber away..

@MVT Enforced is the word I'm looking for? Either way the PP has done a shit job and I figured I'd voice my opinion before something is actually done about it after 3 years

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MrL1193 on 07/23/12 at 23:36:00

Chouy, if you can keep up your motivation regardless of music, that's great for you. But you have to understand, not everyone thinks like you. Now, I personally do not usually have a strong negative reaction to music, because I can just tune it out if necessary. But I do appreciate good music, and I know from experience how an awesome soundtrack can bring life to an otherwise boring stage that I wouldn't look twice at otherwise. For example, when I was a little kid, some of my favorite tracks in MK64 were Luigi Raceway, Mario Raceway, Royal Raceway, and Wario Stadium, due in no small part to the music, which I loved. And it affected my (not very serious) Time Trials, too; I spent significantly more time on these courses than on others just because I enjoyed the music. So I know just how much good music can motivate a person to play. It might not be the case for you, but I know it is for a lot of other people. And at the end of the day, how are we supposed to determine whether or not a person is deriving any benefit from custom music? And why would they refuse to quit using custom music if the music doesn't matter to them?

Also, regarding Zane's textures, Sorozone specifically pointed out that the texture he used made the pipe tricks easier because the white pipe contrasted more with the green grass. It's also quite easy to see how it is possible to specifically craft textures to give an advantage (such as adding markers for pulling off the BC3 SC's, which some players have actually done). They definitely tend to have more of an effect than custom music, and can completely change the way you look at a track--for better or for worse.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Timothy on 07/24/12 at 01:47:28

Agree with Chouy, it's ludicrous and I encourage anyone with custom music to continue using it should you wish to do so, it's completely harmless. :-?

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MrL1193 on 07/24/12 at 02:34:38

Okay, let's pretend for a moment that you're right. Let's pretend that custom music makes no difference whatsoever. In that case, you have two options:

1. Turn off custom music, race normally, feel exactly the same way as before, keep everyone happy.
2. Raise a big stink, create a divide in the community over something that is of absolutely no consequence.

Now, is this or is this not an accurate description of what you (according to your own argument) are doing?

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Mick on 07/24/12 at 02:39:30

The custom music hack issue can be explained and resolved in 3 undisputable sentences :

- Integrated custom music while playing Mario Kart Wii is a hack.

- Any hacks any device providing hacks are completely banned from any competitive play.

- Therefore custom music is banned from competing on time trials.

If you want to take an extreme example, custom menus or custom character skins are also banned here. Allowing minor hacks is essentially opening the Pandora's box.
It is VERY important to make you understand that hacking is a terrible thing to do and should never be allowed for any official competition no matter the reasons. If you're not happy with this, get the fuck out.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by ALAKTORN on 07/24/12 at 03:32:14

0C2A2F3A2D06302C37366E5F0 wrote:

If you want to take an extreme example, custom menus or custom character skins are also banned here. Allowing minor hacks is essentially opening the Pandora's box.
It is VERY important to make you understand that hacking is a terrible thing to do and should never be allowed for any official competition no matter the reasons. If you're not happy with this, get the fuck out.

^this, this, this

the effect of the hack doesn’t even mean shit, hacking is banned, if you don’t like it, go fuck yourself

we should discount all of Chouy’s WRs, if he has any

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by ROM on 07/24/12 at 03:52:36

Some people time their wheelies using the sounds they produce (Degausser for instance said a long time ago he was doing this for RPB). If you change the background music you are potentially giving yourself an unfair advantage over the other players (the background music might help you to distinguish the wheelie sounds more easily)

it's probably a case that is not relevant for many people (most players mash the wheelie button), nonetheless this case exists, and it is enough to say that custom music should be banned.

The other reasons given above are already explaining everything pretty clearly anyway.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Ridley_ on 07/24/12 at 04:20:00

The game must remain the same for everybody, otherwise competition has just no sense. There is no gradation in hacking, no "tiny hack", lol.
Modifying the game is cheating, end of story.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Arsεnic on 07/24/12 at 05:01:56

@Chouy&Tim:

http://i.imgur.com/jdJTY.gif

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Silver on 07/24/12 at 05:57:51

6E484D584F64524E55540C3D0 wrote:

^ Completely agree with this.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Timothy on 07/24/12 at 06:11:29

6B58594F4443492A0 wrote:

@Chouy&Tim:

http://i.imgur.com/jdJTY.gif

Not like I have a choice is it? I don't even play this game so I don't care in that sense, but I just think it's stupidity and that's my opinion. Nice try.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Arsεnic on 07/24/12 at 06:50:23

686261627C621B0 wrote:

[quote author=6B58594F4443492A0 link=1342891479/25#44 date=1343134916]@Chouy&Tim:

http://i.imgur.com/jdJTY.gif

Not like I have a choice is it? I don't even play this game so I don't care in that sense, but I just think it's stupidity and that's my opinion. Nice try.

[/quote]

It seems you're a bit sensitive. So, I'm going to write an angelic (http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1343115226/3#3) post ^__^:

Alright, my post wasn't really serious. You should try to explain why it's supidity; I'm interested to see your reasons :)

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Timothy on 07/24/12 at 06:55:19

102322343F3832510 wrote:

[quote author=686261627C621B0 link=1342891479/25#46 date=1343139089][quote author=6B58594F4443492A0 link=1342891479/25#44 date=1343134916]@Chouy&Tim:

http://i.imgur.com/jdJTY.gif

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Arsεnic on 07/24/12 at 08:43:28

101A191A041A630 wrote:

It's asinine comments like this [...]

Thank you, you proved what I said. (It's not my POV by the way, just the facts). :)

101A191A041A630 wrote:

Reasons as above.

Alright. But, can you try to explain, by yourself, why Mick,MrL and Rom are wrong and that their reasons are stupid or you're just going to say " Hey guys! I don't play this game anymore, so I don't give a shit and that's my opinion (#which is subjective for now, by the way)" ?

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Blackyboi on 07/24/12 at 09:30:54

1A262B083C2729344E0 wrote:

[quote author=1D333E3C346C665F0 link=1342891479/25#26 date=1343087385]So Sword is gonna be banned because he records TTs which means he loads TT mode while using a modification of the Wii.
Way to go MVT.

I TAS'd my MKDD RR 60 Hz WR.[/quote]

Fixed it for you.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Blackyboi on 07/24/12 at 09:40:55

03052D26213B377F7E7E4E0 wrote:

This would ban NMeade since his disc reader is broken(unless he got a new Wii which I doubt)

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Timothy on 07/24/12 at 09:59:05

605352444F4842210 wrote:

[quote author=101A191A041A630 link=1342891479/25#48 date=1343141719]
It's asinine comments like this [...]

Thank you, you proved what I said. (It's not my POV by the way, just the facts). :)

101A191A041A630 wrote:

Reasons as above.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Arsεnic on 07/24/12 at 10:44:41

6C66656678661F0 wrote:

Wow you're an arsehole. :-?

Keep insulting me. It's fun to read. :)

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MKchouy93 on 07/24/12 at 12:19:00

030E0309160D100C420 wrote:

[quote author=0C2A2F3A2D06302C37366E5F0 link=1342891479/25#40 date=1343126370]
If you want to take an extreme example, custom menus or custom character skins are also banned here. Allowing minor hacks is essentially opening the Pandora's box.
It is VERY important to make you understand that hacking is a terrible thing to do and should never be allowed for any official competition no matter the reasons. If you're not happy with this, get the fuck out.

^this, this, this

the effect of the hack doesn’t even mean shit, hacking is banned, if you don’t like it, go fuck yourself

we should discount all of Chouy’s WRs, if he has any[/quote]

My sister updated my wii to 4.3 awhile ago and I've been too lazy to update my riivolution to 4.3 so tough luck on deleting my times, but I'll be sure to let you know next time I play with custom music cause I could care less. You've got your hands full of people I feel you'd be much more reluctant to ban so good luck enforcing this rule ;)

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by thewebinator on 07/24/12 at 14:22:28

I'm glad you could care less, as it means you have some level of caring towards the fact that you're breaking site policy.

Regardless of how insignificant your modifications are, it's still altering the game beyond what was given to you in the package, and regardless of how much of an advantage you think it gives or doesn't give you, it's still against site rules.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by TheFrigz on 07/24/12 at 14:35:57

614F424048101A230 wrote:

[quote author=1A262B083C2729344E0 link=1342891479/25#27 date=1343087918][quote author=1D333E3C346C665F0 link=1342891479/25#26 date=1343087385]So Sword is gonna be banned because he records TTs which means he loads TT mode while using a modification of the Wii.
Way to go MVT.

I TAS'd my MKDD RR 60 Hz WR.[/quote]

Fixed it for you.[/quote]

I'll take that as a compliment :) stay mad ::)

you need to take a break from the demon world, friend, and live angelic like me. so demonic...

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MKchouy93 on 07/24/12 at 15:56:22

362423282F20352E337075410 wrote:

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by ☆Flαmξ on 07/24/12 at 16:06:45

Your suggested site policy sounds reasonable to me MVT.

For those who are supporting the implementation of custom music during time trials, I am confused as to why you cannot simply plug in some earphones and listen to an iPod or mp3 player while playing? You can still share the benefit of listening to music without the use of a hack, and avoid the whole "time legitimacy" argument altogether. Just turn the gameplay volume down. This is how I time trialed back when I was an active player, and it worked just fine for me. I don't understand how in-game custom music is the only option for those who use it to improve their times.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Silver on 07/24/12 at 16:22:02

Flame :o
WiiChuck players could benefit from the in-game sounds.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Sorozone on 07/24/12 at 16:24:16

02042C27203A367E7F7F4F0 wrote:

[quote author=362423282F20352E337075410 link=1342891479/50#55 date=1343168548]I'm glad you could care less, as it means you have some level of caring towards the fact that you're breaking site policy.

Regardless of how insignificant your modifications are, it's still altering the game beyond what was given to you in the package, and regardless of how much of an advantage you think it gives or doesn't give you, it's still against site rules.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Sorozone on 07/24/12 at 16:28:55

0326352C6A012B262A22470 wrote:

I also did this from time to time. You don't even have to go through the hassle of changing the mp3 file, just use your Ipod, mp3 player, computer, w.e. It's all right there.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MKchouy93 on 07/24/12 at 17:19:48

774B564B5E4B4A41240 wrote:

[quote author=02042C27203A367E7F7F4F0 link=1342891479/50#57 date=1343174182][quote author=362423282F20352E337075410 link=1342891479/50#55 date=1343168548]I'm glad you could care less, as it means you have some level of caring towards the fact that you're breaking site policy.

Regardless of how insignificant your modifications are, it's still altering the game beyond what was given to you in the package, and regardless of how much of an advantage you think it gives or doesn't give you, it's still against site rules.

And how does this site plan to enforce this rule? When there's no way in telling if a person used them in his/her run? It's as easy as putting an mp3 over the video file and uploading to youtube. The fact that this site is even going to try to stop custom music is laughable because it won't happen.[/quote]

I'm sure people using rapidfire thought the same thing.

The point is: If you are caught using modifications, you are basically fucked.[/quote]

As difficult as finding save states in a run, good luck with that.

When the time comes that you can tell if someone altered the music (never), then we can be worried about this but as for now it's pointless arguing.

People are going to continue using custom, there's no way it can be proved against them, it's stupidly easy to cover up, there's no actual benefit to it anyways and the fact that you idiots put it in the same tier as TAS when you don't even play the game yourself makes me laugh at you 'reshaping' the community.

I'm done now, I am ready to witness the drastic results of the newly reinforced site policies!

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Zwiebel on 07/24/12 at 17:21:25

So you say if you cannot really detect something it's of no use to ban it anyway?

Yeah we can never be sure of any time being TAS, so we shouldn't even try to ban it? Man you're so hillarious.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by ALAKTORN on 07/24/12 at 17:24:19

chouy is dumber than a corpse

his brain must be dead

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Sorozone on 07/24/12 at 17:29:14

To be honest, if we have codes that can detect what controller the person used, and what their inputs are. Developing a code that can extract basic information such as BGM, or an mp3 file should be pretty easy.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Zwiebel on 07/24/12 at 17:37:19

Can we ban dumb people too? Maybe Cole can develop a script that can read the brain's input from players while they play and generate their IQ

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by KingAlex on 07/24/12 at 18:04:52

Music shouldn't be banned (assuming using anything 'banned' is cause for removal from the website), the way I see it the only things that should be are things that alter the gameplay itself (slow motion, rapidfire, etc.) as well as other clear cheating methods (savestates, button remapping). The effect alternate music creates, if any, is so so miniscule there is no penalty that it would justify. I see what you guys mean saying no hacks should be allowed but it's obvious how little impact music would have. It should be frowned upon but not grounds for banning, if someone got caught using music hacks I'd just be like 'wow he's a dick for using them even though we said not to' and move on.

But textures should be 100% banned from this point on, so obviously uncool.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Silver on 07/24/12 at 18:24:56

^ Yeah, I agree with Alex with this one. It shouldn't be encouraged, as it's still a kind of hack, but it's not a huge offense if you do use them.

Lol, just realized that I 'agree' with many people. This one states my opinion the best though.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by TheFrigz on 07/24/12 at 18:48:54

So many people want to allow cheating on this thread, truly demonic friends...

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Sorozone on 07/24/12 at 18:55:03

Once again. If you want to listen to music, there are other ways other than hacking your Wii.

Honestly if we allow custom music through hacking, I would use it, but I wouldn't actually put music in, I'd just remove it entirely. I think people underestimate how important sound is for this game.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by KingAlex on 07/24/12 at 19:19:26

Cancelling out the music entirely is kind of unnecessary lol, I know what you mean I need sound in the game to time wheelies but it's not like the music is so loud you can't hear your vehicle. It seems most people want everything banned, whatever the majority wants we should do (hint make a poll), I couldn't care less what the outcome is

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Sorozone on 07/24/12 at 19:22:57

Well I use sound for MT's too! Not just wheelies!

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Sorozone on 07/24/12 at 19:30:47

Poll added.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Sorozone on 07/24/12 at 19:33:13

And for the record, the winning result of the poll, may or may not have any effect on the policy of the site.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Tschukitschaki on 07/24/12 at 23:07:40

uhm one question, if the custon music gets banned now, how do you want to find out which records were done with custon music and which werent? isnt it useless to ban them, everyone that wants to have custom music will keep using it, because it cant be proofed that it was used. or is it possible to find out if a record was done with custom music or not?

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Zwiebel on 07/25/12 at 00:48:50

7750404B56484A5750404B42484A230 wrote:

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Tschukitschaki on 07/25/12 at 01:14:14

5F726C60676069050 wrote:

[quote author=7750404B56484A5750404B42484A230 link=1342891479/75#75 date=1343200060]uhm one question, if the custon music gets banned now, how do you want to find out which records were done with custon music and which werent? isnt it useless to ban them, everyone that wants to have custom music will keep using it, because it cant be proofed that it was used. or is it possible to find out if a record was done with custom music or not?

Can you guys please quit using the argument "people who want to do it will do it anyway"? That's the fucking worst argument ever and it's so stupid beyond retardation that I could go retard by reading it once more.

People who want to TAS will TAS anyway. People who want to kill people will kill people anyway. People who want to steal will steal anyway.

Do we still need a law for those things? Of course faggots. It makes me laugh how everyone uses this argument, it has nothing to do with banning or not banning it. It's just plain stupid. Have you all gone down to Flo's level? Even Flo could be smarter than you, and I don't say this often.

Also fucking listen to Sorozone, he's spot on. You can listen to music via Ipod/etc, why do you need to resort to hacking the game to change the music? So fucking retarded.[/quote]

Just wanted to know if its possible to find that or not, anyway in my opinion a rule doesnt make sense, if nobody knows if people comply with it, also people who want to tas or who want to kill will not simply do it, because of the danger getting cought, and well i dont think that people that are using custom music, will stop doing it just because the pp suddenly decides it should be banned, anyway banning music or textures makes no sense to me anyway, its not a help for you to easier get records, it just makes it more comfortable maybe, records that are done with custom music or texture hacks are still as good as they were without music and textures. btw. what flo are you talking about?

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by blahperson15 on 07/25/12 at 01:23:56

thank god that Sorozone has some fucking sense

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Tom1 on 07/25/12 at 02:48:02

694E5E55485654494E5E555C56543D0 wrote:

[quote author=5F726C60676069050 link=1342891479/75#76 date=1343206130][quote author=7750404B56484A5750404B42484A230 link=1342891479/75#75 date=1343200060]uhm one question, if the custon music gets banned now, how do you want to find out which records were done with custon music and which werent? isnt it useless to ban them, everyone that wants to have custom music will keep using it, because it cant be proofed that it was used. or is it possible to find out if a record was done with custom music or not?

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by ALAKTORN on 07/25/12 at 05:17:00

0D363468590 wrote:

if you dont like them go to cyberscore or something.

fuck off, Cyberscore bans any kind of hard/software modification

go to VGR if you want to cheat, they like it

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Mr.Nosey on 07/25/12 at 07:12:01

320E130E1B0E0F04610 wrote:

Once again. If you want to listen to music, there are other ways other than hacking your Wii.

I sometimes play with my own music on my laptop next to me and mute the tv, but the only difference is that the all the sounds apart from the bgm are gone too, and I'm not sure on how much of an effect that has on me. Sometimes when doing this I actually feel like turning off my own music and unmuting the tv, but this maybe because I haven't invested as much as others into tt, so I'm driven mad by it yet.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MVT on 07/25/12 at 07:13:40

I don't agree with the any of the poll options. They make it sound much too complicated, especially for a beginner or non-hacker to understand. The line in my first post is much better. Note the key words in it..."during time trials". If you want to use things outside of your own personal time trials be my guest, but not DURING them. It's a lot clearer policy than any of the poll options.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Sorozone on 07/25/12 at 15:44:48

Well, I figured common sense would take over with reading your first post, and then the poll options.

I mean, I was gonna dumb it down a bit, but people are talking/debating/complaining about certain aspects of hacking, so I just tried to throw in all the options that are being heavily "discussed".

Like I said before, the winning option of the poll isn't necessarily going to have any effect on what we decide should be the rules/policy.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Sasuke III on 07/30/12 at 11:27:15

As for hacks allowing recording tool,
I don't see any reason to ban them as they're not even related to how times are being made.

For others things, I'd be willing to allow custom musics and ban the rest.
Listening to the musics through your PC is kinda the same in the end so well, that's not much an advantage on the side of people whom hack their game.

Then it can turn into accepting game modification or not at all, in that case not any hack that can be seen, heard, felt while racing (aka any hack/modification excluding TT record tools) should be allowed :P

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by MVT on 07/30/12 at 12:04:13

Custom music has been banned long ago. To reinstate it would be a total travesty and unfair to all of the players that stopped using it because of the ban years ago.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Sorozone on 08/02/12 at 18:28:23

Closed the Poll.

Seems like Textures hacks for sure need to banned according to the community. Some favor everything being banned.

All in all, the community largely agrees with the opening statement. Music still being the biggest...I guess "deterrent".

In any case the music issue can be resolved by simply just playing music off your laptop, if you need to hack your Wii to get your music fix, then I'm inclined to believe it gives some sort of advantage over it just playing on your computer. Otherwise there is really no reason for it, because the reason it obvious.

Regardless if you, yourself realize it, some songs intentionally or unintentionally can make some mini-turbo sounds, and wheelie sounds easier to hear, which is an advantage. By the same token, it can also make some harder to hear, but that's not the point. The point is an advantage can exist, and that advantage can only become available through hacking the Wii.

I personally don't believe in the motivation factor that some people are saying, as some who are lobbying for music to be allowed, but I also feel my point is a much stronger one.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by thewebinator on 08/02/12 at 19:20:32

If you want to just look at music in the poll, it's 37-18 in favor of banning custom music. Although the poll doesn't mean site policy, I'd say the spread is sufficient enough to say that most people believe that custom music should not be allowed on the charts.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Mr.Nosey on 08/03/12 at 08:20:21

457964796C797873160 wrote:

...some songs intentionally or unintentionally can make some mini-turbo sounds, and wheelie sounds easier to hear, which is an advantage.
...

I've never released a mini-turbo or wheelied based on my hearing, I do it purely on intuition and guesstimation. Does anyone else though?

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Silver on 08/03/12 at 09:00:40

^ For me:
Mini turbos are based on experience and instinct.
Wheelies are based on wheelie sounds :L

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Jay Batten on 08/03/12 at 09:03:13

I used the rumble of the wiimote and instinct when I played.. I muted my TV since the sounds are so goddamn annoying:/

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Utter on 08/04/12 at 03:22:39

KEYBOARDS DON'T RUMBLE, SILLY!

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by ALAKTORN on 08/04/12 at 04:19:43

0438350F02313E343F3D0F172529500 wrote:

KEYBOARDS DON'T RUMBLE, SILLY!

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by RVZ on 08/04/12 at 08:02:44

46646F6473606D010 wrote:

Banning custom music is completely asinine and arbitrary. Changing the BGM has absolutely no effect (0%) on the engine physics, nor any manipulation or persuasion of player inputs or modifying core gameplay, such as slow motion, save states, rapid fire, etc.

This bogus "argument" that "it changes your brain waves and instructs your brain differently" is absolute bullshit. Humans have varying thought processes and react differently while listening to music. Music by principle is a purely subjective art form, appreciated and perceived different. It's why everyone has their own specific tastes in musical genres, and will not react equally to the same particular song. Another argument that was presented was that it "sets the mood or relieves stress, thus an unfair advantage". Listening to music (or in this case different music) is not an unfair advantage or ever has been, nor is it morally wrong in any shape or form. Might as well ban .mp3 players and iPods while we're at it since they are outside sources of non-native BGMs too.

Last time I checked, you do not have authority over anyone's state of mind or emotions. You cannot dictate what someone listens to either.

Having a song you like as bgm doesn't make any difference on having an annoying bgm? Some regular final lap tunes getting on your nerves badly cuz of going beserk (rMR, WGM, rWS for example). A slower tune is also slower tune on lap 3, means more relax, a calmer state, an advantage.

Title: Re: Let's Craft The New Site Policies
Post by Silver on 08/04/12 at 08:12:41

WiiChuck4life, timing wheelies = (y)