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Mario Kart MB
https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl Mario Kart >> Mario Kart Super Circuit >> Last god standards https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1305882037 Message started by Vorsch on 05/20/11 at 01:00:37 |
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Title: Last god standards Post by Vorsch on 05/20/11 at 01:00:37 5 God times remaining Missing GOD times: - CCI: 0'49'10 (WR: 0'49"35 by Seb, Myth C, 0'00"25 away from the standard) - RKB1: 0'27"00 (WR: 27'33 by Matt, Myth A, 0'00"33 away from the standard) - RBC3: 1'13"65 (WR: 1'13"68 by Terrence, Myth A 0'00"03 away from the standard) - RBC3 flap: 0'12"70 (WR: 0'12"70 by Terence, ties the standard) - RKB2 flap: 0'05"18 (WR: 0'05'22 by Terrence, Myth B, 0'00"04 away from the standard) |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by Mwopick on 05/20/11 at 02:05:09 Indeed I think RKB2 flap is extremely tough. I felt my own PR was already maxed [smiley=dead.gif] I have easily the splits to get sub 49 on CCI, so the God should be a formality for anyone who has ZZMT's and get a 3/3 run. |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by Vorsch on 05/20/11 at 03:08:25 A formality for someone that get a (clean) zzmt 3/3 run? Well, that's true, even I am really close to god splits here. But getting that clean 3/3 run is the big problem. Is anyone here consistent enough to go for it? Certainly not me... |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by .Hahaae on 05/20/11 at 04:30:50 Rainbow Road God standard should be like 0'34"95... >.> Not even Su has subbed 35", and his run is close to perfect. Hirano's run barely beats the God time, and that was the cleanest WR run in MKSC history. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by karterfreak on 05/20/11 at 05:29:56 6E6E6E060 wrote:
God standards are supposed to be hard to accomplish. We already knew that 34"75 was possible from Hirano's run, and a time already being "30 ahead of the God standard when the standards first came out would have been stupid. .. As for the topic at hand, I wish good luck to the person who attempts to sub 27" on RKB1 5lap and attempts the God time on RKB2 flap. RKB2 flap is my strongest time, period. There's a reason Seb tied it and left it at that, I promise you that much. |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by A Runnelid on 05/20/11 at 10:47:49 I must've hit some sort of magical keyboard combination to make my browser window disappear when I was writing my last post, so I'll give it another go. I see your trail of mind, Matt, but knowing what I now know about the courses (which may be very little for most, but not all), I wouldn't go quite as far as saying that estimating an optimum on any one course so soon after the game's release is stupid in principle. I would take a more careful approach and say it is indeed if the course held several viable strategies that were potentially as proficient for achieving low times. In short, 98 times out of 100 if not more, I would agree with you. I'm just not sure how many possible strategies that are viable for completing fast 3-laps (whether adhering to the rules we've applied or otherwise) for the course of RR. At the risk of sounding stupid and grossly misinformed all at once, I'd say this strategy may well be the best out there for three combined laps. Naturally, there is also the factor of driving skills to add to the equation, but there is only so much you can do with regards to tightening jumps, improving driving lines and adding speed within the concept that is MK:SC RR. Granted, driving improvements are likely to be drastical when moving at high speed, but when you are already shooting so far ahead per time unit and going at such speed, this margin of improvement and the eventual benefit towards the final time is, even potentially, rather small. Maybe there is a better strategy out there for RR, and we're all not seeing, but I as one of us - Well, I'm not seeing it. Andreas |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by .Hahaae on 05/20/11 at 13:29:05 Matt, 0'34"95 is hard enough. There is a reason why only 2 people have subbed 35 in all of MKSC history, and that is because everything has to virtually be perfect to do so. The only reason that Hirano's run was already far ahead was because he and his robotic driving practiced the same strat for like 4-6 years. To even sub 35, you have to do every single small strat at least nearly as fast as possible, and hit all of the strats properly, and there is still no reassurance that you will hit it right. I would know, as I've spent the last 3 months on RaR, and still don't even have the splits to sub 35. |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by F@nt0m@s on 05/20/11 at 13:43:14 What you don't get is that a GOD standard is a standard that is normally not reachable for someone human. For RR for exemple, sub 35 has been so... so let's put the god standard at... idk... 34"00? or 34"20? |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by .Hahaae on 05/20/11 at 14:04:05 God times aren't supposed to be impossible, such as 0'34"00; that's just retarded. They're supposed to be around the height of skill, not so ridiculous that not even the perfect TAS couldn't come anywhere near it. ;D |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by karterfreak on 05/20/11 at 15:02:37 4A54597E65656E67626F0B0 wrote:
I'd agree with what you're saying here, but it isn't about there being a better RR strategy in this case (In which you are right, it is the best strategy for the course, period). The fact of the matter is, we're discussing lowering a God standard by "20 when the God standard HAS been accomplished by people. Why are we going to make it easier to achieve when it is already achievable? It makes no sense when we know that the fastest available strat is more than capable of getting under the God standard. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I've always been under the assumption when I joined the players page way back in 2000 or so that the God standard was supposed to be a true feat and test of someones skill on a track. Even MK64, a game which has a much deeper learning curve in most regards, has standards that for most high level players are incredibly difficult to accomplish. As an example, only 13 people in the world have managed to sub the God standard on Frappe Snowland non-sc 3lap, and the WR itself (Driven by Michael Jongerius no less) only beats the standard by 37 milliseconds, and the track is MUCH longer than RaR 3lap is in MKSC. I may not be in the right to say this, as RR is a track I do not enjoy playing (hence using a bad strategy for my time), but I firmly believe that God standards SHOULD be accomplished by only a select amount of people. If we're going to ask anyone about this, it should be Seb. He HAS accomplished it, so it should be something he has valuable input on. 6C6C6C040 wrote:
I don't know where this thought process ever came from that these times are impossible. It has already been accomplished by two players, which means its right where it should be in my honest opinion. An optimized TAS could improve even Seb's time by "10, maybe even more. As it is, if there's a case where a God time is beaten by more than "50 with there still being room for improvement, it needs to be harder. Many of the current God standards need to be revamped. The only ones that seem to be standing the test of time are the ones on this list. |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by T-Man on 05/20/11 at 15:06:20 5656563E0 wrote:
Ethan, take a break on RR man...try some easier courses homie ;) 60594445555E360 wrote:
1'13"68 - 0"04 away from GOD and on http://www.mariokart64.com/mksc/standards.php?pid=206, why on RDP3, 1'00"00 is twice RDP3 GOD should be at least 59"87 8-) |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by Vorsch on 07/06/11 at 13:46:44 I updated the first post! Chris crushed the SGB flap, and Terrence came very close on both RBC3 and RKB2. We're getting there, guys :) |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by F@nt0m@s on 07/07/11 at 06:35:23 Yep only a few times are still "far" away from god. :) |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by T-Man on 07/21/11 at 08:44:43 Most GOD achivement: http://www.mariokart64.com/mksc/course.php?cid=59 |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by F@nt0m@s on 10/03/11 at 13:38:30 4 Gods left to reach! :) |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by KartSeven on 10/03/11 at 15:11:17 I count 3... ;D |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by F@nt0m@s on 10/04/11 at 00:15:38 Oh yeah! The RBC3 flap is down too! ::) |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by Chris on 10/04/11 at 06:54:17 I have to say: RBC3 5lap is possible for me, but CCI and RKB1 are impossible (at least for me). We have to wait for Terrence or maybe Seb, I can't think about anyone else who could beat those standards... (apart from Christophe on CCI, if he would use ZZMT :troll: ) |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by F@nt0m@s on 10/04/11 at 07:07:25 Matt or Mick could probably get the KB1 5lap god... |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by El Niņo on 10/04/11 at 09:41:53 69425843592A0 wrote:
TROLOLOLOLOLOL! ;D Maybe I could make an exception by using your console at CDM next year if that GOD is still standing... ::) -Christophe. |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by F@nt0m@s on 10/04/11 at 11:51:48 022F283B2029214E0 wrote:
TROLOLOLOLOLOL! ;D Maybe I could make an exception by using your console at CDM next year if that GOD is still standing... ::) -Christophe.[/quote] Yeah... obviously... and you'll give the reason that you both have the same first name...? ::) That's not fair! :( :P |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by El Niņo on 10/04/11 at 11:58:47 What's not fair? Sharing names or using ZZMT? If you mean ZZMT, then yes, I agree with you! :D -Christophe. |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by F@nt0m@s on 10/04/11 at 12:01:42 65484F5C474E46290 wrote:
hmm... Rather... using your name as a reason to use his console... ::) ;D |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by El Niņo on 10/04/11 at 12:24:55 Nah, I would only use his console for the sake of getting that GOD... ::) -Christophe. |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by The Gaff on 10/07/11 at 01:12:26 When i wrote the standards it was with a view that only a select amount of players would probably ever reach them. We know a god standard is to easy if players who are otherwise reaching elite times get a god. There is bound to be a higher curve on some tracks, largely if they are short. I expect a higher % of gods on kb1 flap for example than on bc4. However thats not necessarily how it should be.. God times should not be unnatainable in my opinion. At the moment there are a few that could be tweaked but generally they're pretty good. |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by .Hahaae on 10/07/11 at 19:39:16 Someone please fix the GOD-Titan Standards on Rainbow Road. Nobody here seriously knows how hard it is to sub 0'35"00, because you have to take every risk every lap and hope you don't ruin it all due to nerves. If I could do the GOD-Titan Standards, they'd be something like this (and even these are reasonably hard Standards): GD: 0'34"75 MA: 0'35"00 MB: 0'35"15 MC: 0'35"35 MD: 0'35"60 ME: 0'35"85 TA: 0'36"00 TB: 0'36"25 TC: 0'36"65 TD: 0'36"85 TE: 0'37"00 People who don't play at a sub-36 level here really have no appreciation or grasp on how ridiculously hard it is to sub 35.00. To do this, you need at least a 0'12"00, 0'11"50 and a 0'11"48. In case you didn't know, those laps are ridiculously hard to get and are determined by how many pixels early you can use the mushroom before it starts to die before hitting the zipper. Hirano's 0'34"63 was an instant shoo-in to people because of how perfect his driving is. Shota Hirano is by far the highest-skilled MKSC player ever to touch the game, and he said that he could not lower it any further with Toad. The only reason Sebastian Stellmacher was able to beat his time is the slight (and almost unnoticeable) advantage that Bowser has right before the shroomspot, and the fact that he can slightly slide, barely increasing the speed more than Toad when he lands the shroomspot each lap. He also used a slightly faster version of the shroomstrat, which is only effective with Bowser and other heavyweights. In case you've never seen the run, Hirano took the exact same lines (if not better) as the 0'34"48 TAS did. Only having his (flawless) run "07 away from the GOD Standard on a track with minuscule difference between character speed is retarded. If you want to be realistic, there have only been 2 people to ever come remotely close to the GOD Standard, and both of them spent a ridiculous amount of time on the track (Hirano practiced the strategy for 4 years before finally making his famous run). On another note, there have only been 2 people to ever even sub 0'35"00, which the GOD Standard is 0'00"30 away from. Myth A is only 0'00"25 away from 0'35"00, and it is ridiculously hard to cut even 0'00"05 off of Personal Records once you get down into the low 35 area. Why is this? Because each run has to have virtually zero mistakes. The slightest, almost unnoticeable flaw can cost you a cut at the very last turn, for instance. So yeah, in the very least, fix the Myth times. Having them "05 apart on a range that is nearly impossible to get to isn't right. For one, simply getting the shroomstrat 3/3 to get a half-decent time is very hard. Now think about doing this at a level where nothing can be played safe (The low 0'35"xx range). Now think about a run with 3/3 SC's where absolute perfection is a must-have (Anything below 0'34"80). Repeatedly doing this to lower a Personal Record is tedious, tiresome, and nearly impossible (not to mention that nobody want to do such a thing). The standards need to be less perfection-demanding, as the person who created them obviously had never even gotten close to anything below 0'35"30, where you just have to pray that you get the tightest possible line, get the lucky slide boost, and pray that a random factor doesn't completely ruin your run. To those that want to say something like "Well the best Rainbow Road splits give for 0'34"37, which beats the GOD time by 0'00"33!", then you're mistaken. The laps that Sebastian raced in his BKS laps were miracle laps that shouldn't even be counted. Why is this? Because if you watch the laps at the end, he hugs the wall at the end of each lap. You cannot hug the wall at the end of a lap and get better than a 0'11"65 2nd/3rd lap, making the split invalid on anything other than lap 3. You have to be in the middle so you can just slightly nudge the D-Pad and use the mushroom while doing so. Realistically, Rainbow Road will never go below 0'34"40, and is not likely to even with the use of TAS. Likewise, the best time that a human could ever actually drive would be something about a 0'34"44 run, maybe a 0'34"42 with even more unnoticeable perfection, but that is pushing it quite a bit. So yeah, tl;dr: The Rainbow Road GOD Standard is virtually impossible for anyone to reach without spending a year or more solely on practicing Rainbow Road, and the Myth Standards are far too close to the GOD Standard, considering how insanely hard it is to shave off any amount of time at all when you get below around 0'35"20. The standards are highly inconsiderate of the risks, perfection, and stupidly hard shroomstrat and need to be changed for the betterment of the MKSC community. High-Quality link to Hirano's Rainbow Road 3lap Former World Record (you can see how identical his lines were to TAS much easier in this video): http://www.nicovideo.jp.am/watch/sm3486497 (You will have to wait until the very end of the cup to see his run as you cannot skip to another area when using the NicoVideo player; you can also turn off the Japanese annotations, etc., if you prefer) |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by T-Man on 10/08/11 at 03:47:23 @Hahaae, try and go for sub 38 on RVL1 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) It gets harder |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by .Hahaae on 10/08/11 at 11:56:42 The VL1 WR is nowhere near as perfected as the Rainbow Road. That track would be a complete piece of cake if the ice blocks weren't there. Not to bash or anything Terrence, but you obviously have no clue how ridiculously hard a sub-35 run is. You have to use all of the same techniques as the WR (this is by no means easy, mind you) and still keep very tight lines. Seb can probably relate to what I mean. Rainbow Road is one of those tracks where you can't grasp the difficulty level until you're at the top of the competition. |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by Zwiebel on 10/09/11 at 13:25:19 Sorry Ethan, but GOD standards are supposed to be ridiculous hard and RR is a good example of a very nice standard set. Seriously, only a true God of RR should be able to get that time, and Seb proved it is possible. Why the fuck change it...RR has one of the best standard sets imo. Edit: 2727274F0 wrote:
That's actually what a God run should take, full risk and full payoff. |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by .Hahaae on 10/09/11 at 16:57:03 At least fix the Myth times. Anything in the 34 range (unless it's like 34.9x or so) is too hard to be Myth. You seriously can't grasp how hard it is to get a low 35 or better because you've probably never even done the strat in a 3/3 run, let alone driven it with good luck and near-perfect lines. |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by theDOC on 10/21/11 at 12:02:02 Sorry Timur but i have to agree with Ethan: if you don't want to fix God, which is perfect for me, at least change Myth and Titan standards, because full risk and full payoff is a thing, full risk with a 35"0x/1x run and achieve a Titan B isn't full payoff, or am i wrong? |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by Zwiebel on 10/21/11 at 13:31:12 I can't change the standards, I can just ask Alex or someone else to change them. But a change like this can't just be decided like that, I need to talk to some people before a decision can be made. God will in any case stay like it is now though. |
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Title: Re: Last god standards Post by .Hahaae on 08/19/15 at 23:46:00 Done. |
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