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Mario Kart MB
https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl Historical >> Karter Contest 2K10 >> My pathetic attempt at a campaign https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1274112657 Message started by David Wonn on 05/17/10 at 08:10:57 |
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Title: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/17/10 at 08:10:57 I don't normally do these popularity contests, so I'll just make this brief: Last summer, this long-retired karter unexpectedly won the Kart tournament in Virginia in what felt like a Rocky Balboan moment. I had not even powered on my N64 more than twice between the 2008 and 2009 meets, so I had no expectations of going beyond the final four. Who could have possibly known that the finals would end up as epic as they did in the final lap of Rainbow Road after it looked like I was eliminated for sure? If by some fluke, I happen to win this contest (about as likely as repeating a Kart victory again in Virginia), then perhaps I'll declassify a Kart shortcut. I have a feeling I may be regretting this, but I don't expect to win anyway, so the secrets will likely remain safe for at least another decade or so. :-) |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by cutz22 on 05/17/10 at 13:23:49 Oh shit. I need this info. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by TheFrigz on 05/17/10 at 18:48:57 Wow, holy shit. I'm for sure voting for Wonn. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by ALAKTORN on 05/17/10 at 19:02:52 what does "declassify a Kart shortcut" mean? |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by karterfreak on 05/17/10 at 22:20:21 Before I say you have my vote, is this for MK64, is it Time Trial applicable, and approximately how much time does it save per lap? Probably have my vote. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by The Gaff on 05/18/10 at 01:35:58 contest aside, i dont think you should be holding back information at all! |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by MC1_For_Life on 05/18/10 at 01:41:55 What could it be :o |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by The Gaff on 05/18/10 at 02:47:08 i'm not taking the piss David, I wanna know whats going on, hiding things has never been a good thing. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/18/10 at 04:25:48 7D776462736449706473777D160 wrote:
It could be SMK or MK64. I might base my decision on which community gathers more votes. In either case, it's Time Trials applicable. If I specify how many seconds per lap, I would be saying too much right now. It suffices to say that we are talking World Record material one way or the other. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by DarkMeta on 05/18/10 at 05:04:28 707D707A657E637F310 wrote:
I think he is hiding a new SC on MK64... :P |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by thewebinator on 05/18/10 at 06:22:50 Agreed that you probably shouldn't hide SCs for the game, and use bribery for the kart contest to gain votes. How do we know you have a SC? :P |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Zarkov on 05/18/10 at 06:26:57 Its probably the GV1 platform jump, he just hasnt checked the players page since 1995. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/18/10 at 06:37:32 ^ If my word alone is not good enough by now, let's just say that another highly respected member of this community has known my secrets for many years. He is of course sworn to secrecy until I decide otherwise. I have been waiting for a good opportunity to unveil such things, so I thought this contest seemed like a good way to do this. Of course if you dislike such controversial tactics, feel free to vote for someone else. I won't be offended either way and will respect your decision. I just want to see if there still is demand for such knowledge, so it is no loss to me whether I win or lose.... |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/18/10 at 06:44:03 43414E4E4F4E434C41524B200 wrote:
Ha, good one! Bear in mind there was no "player's page" yet. Dirk Wegener, Matt Leech, and Martin Bowman had the main SMK time trial sites in 1996. Back then, you could "net search" terms like Mario Kart and only have 20-something results. I miss the old WWW. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Fababu on 05/18/10 at 06:46:27 Mmmm.... I think that I believe you have found that new SC you're speaking about. You're a known and respectable member of community, so I can't believe you're lying about it just to get votes here; all of us here are enough mature and smart. I'll give you my vote coz I feel excited of the fact a new SC being discovered, but I just think that your promise won't have enough impact to make you go through the whole bracket until the final. Maybe promising to show it in a previous round (not right now, maybe 1/16-1/8) could be a realistic goal and it will give you the enough support to win. Not trying to missrespect your campaing, that has been only my two cents. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Matt V on 05/18/10 at 08:19:24 I'll vote for you if it's a new MK64 shortcut. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by cutz22 on 05/18/10 at 11:27:01 1237203F320901393838560 wrote:
Kevin... [smiley=chairshot.gif] [smiley=ninja.gif] I've been trying for too long to not know this. It's gotta be either SL or KTB, assuming MK64 of course. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by TheFrigz on 05/18/10 at 11:32:06 796B6C67606F7A617C3F3A0E0 wrote:
You obviously don't know who David Wonn is. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by thewebinator on 05/18/10 at 13:05:07 I may not have been around in the late 90s or early 00s, but I know who he is. I know that he's one of the most respected MK64 players, one of the greatest SC finders, and overall one of the best karters ever in the community, but to not say anything about the finding of an SC that could be helpful to the whole community until a popularity contest? I just don't see it as campaigning. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/18/10 at 17:52:52 7F6D6A6166697C677A393C080 wrote:
Hence the title I chose for this topic. ;-) |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by KoopZ on 05/18/10 at 23:38:09 does anyone remember the fake chat when whalls made fun of this exact scenario? ::) i bet your trusted source is Marsden. he had a tape coming the whole time! |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by The Gaff on 05/19/10 at 02:47:14 5F7A6D727F444C7475751B0 wrote:
So 1) Are you saying you wont reveal the SC if you dont win the tournament? 2) How long have you known about this SC and why haven't you shared it previously? 3) I think its pretty fucked up that you've kept this from everyone. >:( |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Honko on 05/19/10 at 03:37:01 Tom why are you getting so upset? Keeping shortcuts classified in a secret underground vault isn't something new, it's a Wonn trademark! Just look at his site... "I’d also like to point out that I have been working on some other shortcuts, some of which may even save more time than some of the ones listed above. Some of these shortcuts have only been accomplished once or twice, and I haven’t been able to re-create them. Since I haven’t perfected them yet, I have not revealed them to anyone yet (well, maybe to a few people, but they’re sworn to secrecy at this time). If I see a need to reveal them, I’ll put them in the Rumors section until either someone else or myself perfects the technique to these confidential shortcuts." That's been there literally since the dawn of time. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Zarkov on 05/19/10 at 04:28:15 Honko more like Wonnko. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/19/10 at 04:28:46 ^ Good catch. I almost forgot I wrote that disclaimer, which has been there since my site launched in 1998. Therefore, it is safe to say that some shortcuts have been classified for over a decade. My primary reason for keeping any shortcuts secret is summed up in that ancient quote. I prefer recreating shortcuts at least a few times before unveiling them so that I can provide an accurate and consistent method when they go public. Unfortunately some shortcuts are never successfully recreated, so unveiling them too soon yields inconsistent results. If I had unveiled certain fluke shortcuts in the early days, it is hard to say if they would have been accepted by the community. The decision is a double-edged sword, and there are consequences either way. For example, just before losing Internet access in late 1997, I made the decision to go public with the Kalimari Desert fluke shortcut which would have resulted in 20-something second laps. I could only provide a vague description since I had already spent too much time on the track to save a ghost. Without being able to provide an exact spot for where the fluke shortcut occurred, it was exponentially more difficult for anyone to recreate it. As a result, still nobody has recreated it to this day, almost 13 years after my initial fluke hit. That is, unless you count Gallo's claims of recreating it, and we won't get into that right now. After seeing how revealing a fluke shortcut went nowhere, I decided to stick with my original policy with other fluke shortcuts: Don't reveal them until they can at least consistently be proven to be recreated. The "Rumors" page was designed to at least partially fill that gap and satisfy those who wished to seek out shortcuts on their own. But I can't satisfy everyone.... I also keep some glitches secret if they are too dangerous, either by destroying game data or by destroying the very competitive nature of a game. This decision is not taken lightly. At one point, I felt I had come close to crossing that line when I unveiled the data corruption glitch in Perfect Dark. If memory serves me correctly, this glitch was so bad that it ruined Steven Zwartjes' copy of the game and he got rid of it. There is good reason I did not expand any further on this destructive glitch, since it not only destroys game data, but it destroys your ability to save! I did not want to repeat instances such as this, so some glitch discoveries may very well go to the grave with me. For the most severe glitches, my secrecy is not negotiable and never will be, as I do not wish to be responsible for destroying certain games or the communities surrounding them. We all have to live with the consequences of the decisions we make, so if some of my decisions are controversial, so be it. :-) |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by The Gaff on 05/19/10 at 04:53:54 Personally I think thats a load of shit and my high opinion of you is rapidly diminishing (please let this be known that my opinion here is not related to this campaign or my voting). If you know of some shortcuts then you should share them. We recently included the KD SC to the charts etc. Surely its down to the community to decide what should or should not be included.. not you.. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/19/10 at 05:20:49 ^ Heh heh, there was little distinction between "my" decision and the "community" decision, as they were almost one and the same. You are looking back at 1997 through the eyes of 2010 and forgetting that the "community" back at that time was vastly smaller than it is now. Practically speaking, I was the main shortcutter, and history shows that the vast majority of my discoveries were discussed publicly. FYI, I did share the knowledge of the fluke shortcuts with certain other key members. The decisions were already made mostly by myself, and therefore the community. I am sorry if you feel the way you do, but history is history. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by robman60 on 05/19/10 at 06:04:57 Just to re-ask a question many have asked: If you don't win, will the sc remain classified? |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by TvL on 05/19/10 at 06:07:30 I am not into shortcuts at all, but I do have an opinion on this I'd like to share. David, you say that you have kept and are keeping shortcuts secret because of their "flukeness" or their potential harm. Fine I guess, I have no strong opinion about this. However, I find it strange that you are nonetheless willing to declassify one for the reason of winning the contest. How does that rhyme? Furthermore, in general, I do not like campaigns based on "if I win / make it to round #, I'll do this". I feel that this contest is in principal about popularity and such promises do not belong to that. I know however that this contest is not be taken too seriously (if it were, campaigning wouldn't even be allowed), so if it involves something playful like eating an onion or wearing a crazy shirt, it's all fine. People who resort to such campaigns will however almost certainly lose my vote! However, if the promise involves something more serious, like "if I win I'll make this contribution to the community", then the line is crossed for my taste. As a said, this contest is not to be taken seriously, so leave the serious business out! |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/19/10 at 06:32:08 ^ Fair enough criticism. I noticed other campaigns were promising this or that if they win, so I figured I could contribute something of real substance. If the majority decide that my "campaign" is potentially skewing votes and derailing the contest, then I will consider withrdawing this campaign. I just thought it was a good chance to give back to the community once again, but perhaps not everyone sees it that way. Popularity contests have never really been my thing, so I just wanted to spice things up a bit. What does everyone here think? And to answer the question regarding the shortcut, I originally wanted to unveil it to certain individuals back in the day whom I thought had the best chance of being successful at recreating it. I kept trying to get one or two particular individuals to come to Kart meets in recent years, so when they never came, I figured this Kart contest was a good way to stir up interest in an old fluke shortcut. I eventually plan on unveiling it anyway, so losing this contest does not necessarily mean it goes back to the vault indefinitely. I'm just trying to have some fun with this contest, but if it's unfairly ruining the experience for others, I will reconsider. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by oneshot1985 on 05/19/10 at 07:05:02 lol just do it David. You've got my vote for being such a cunt! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Camster on 05/19/10 at 07:20:01 Your "pathetic attempt" at a campaign has produced the first campaign thread to reach a second page, so you can't be doing a bad job! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by The Gaff on 05/19/10 at 07:20:09 HAAAAAANG on a minute there.. One on hand you play the card to say that as you were the only shortcutter at the time you held on to it until you could recreate it more regularly. And emphasise that the community was smaller back then (which it is) but that you shared it with a couple of players. Can I ask why you have no shared it in the last 5 years when we have had some of the best and most dedicated mk64 short cutters in the world ever? People who would've tirelessly worked on them (tas or not) to see if they are viable etc - which you have already said they are. I presume booth is the person you keep referring to. Maybe Whalls or someone else. Either way, i'm not sure what good comes of keeping a potential short cut away from everyone else. Every new strategy has been opened up and explored in every other kart game to date. If you can do it and get a WR from it (which is what you have implied - although you seem to be back tracking a bit and saying its some sort of fluke) then why haven't you, then taken the credit? There is no harm in releasing it...?! To advocate the posts above mine.. Its one thing to make promises and bribes etc to campaign (god knows iv'e done it) but it feels more like you're holding the community to ransom. You've not released this SC for almost 10 years.. when on earth were you planning on releasing it? When everyones stopped? I think you're being pretty selfish. I think you should find another thing to use as a campaign and you should tell everyone what the SC is so we can TAS it and make use of it. Otherwise it just encourages whoarding and bad practices (ooh, i'm not going to reveal this strat until i get the WR.. oh.. but i'm not even active.. ). By all means anyone else who's "in" on this should pipe up and defend it. Either way, defending your actions from 10 years ago is one thing.. defend your reasons for not telling everyone what is it now? |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by ALAKTORN on 05/19/10 at 07:45:10 oh god [smiley=roll.gif] about the glitches you talked about, for what games are those? |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/19/10 at 08:23:57 362A2D2F2331253A73420 wrote:
I said I was the main shortcutter at the time, not the only. Important point, but anyway... 362A2D2F2331253A73420 wrote:
I have not actively played Time Trials since 2003. Real life kind of gets in the way over time, as others of my age can attest. Karting itself has taken a back seat to other things in life. Yes, the kart scene has changed a bit over the last decade, so I only decided in recent years to explore opening the vault back up, so to speak. 362A2D2F2331253A73420 wrote:
I call it a fluke because I only hit it once, much like the one in Kalimari Desert. Likewise I was unable to save a ghost; otherwise I would have studied it to death and would eventually recreate it. One would need to recreate the shortcut itself and not mess up in other ways to set a WR. Since I could not recreate it, and I knew it would seriously impact certain scores, I decided the community was not ready for it in autumn 1997. I stand by that decision. Then just before I lost Internet access in December, I decided to unveil the Kalimari one to see if the community could do something with it. If they ever did recreate the Kalimari one (which they still have not to this day), then I was going to unveil the other. And now here we are in 2010, and I am rethinking whether to bring it back. 362A2D2F2331253A73420 wrote:
Call me selfish if you wish, but did I not reveal enough shortcuts in 1997? It's my creation, my invention... am I not allowed to decide how and when one or two discoveries get unveiled? Maybe I am a bit protective of my discoveries. You would be too if Nintendo of America ripped off one of your discoveries and then printed it in their Nintendo Power magazine without even crediting the original source. That is precisely what happened with Frappe Snowland when I unveiled it on their BBS. Since then, I learned to be more selective in who I sent the discoveries to. This incident alone was one of the primary reasons why I later created my website, so that proper credit could go to the proper sources. 362A2D2F2331253A73420 wrote:
I'm sure someone who's "in" will pop in here at some point in the near future, if he chooses to.... |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by ALAKTORN on 05/19/10 at 08:42:08 thanks for ignoring me |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by karterfreak on 05/19/10 at 08:51:13 Wonn, I know you have a shortcut in MK64, but what I want to know is how much time it'll save per lap or else it doesn't get my vote ;) To make it easier, you could just give me a % of how much time it would cut off the current WR for the undisclosed track overall. :) |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/19/10 at 08:52:24 ^ Sorry. Your post sneaked in there while I was typing the last one, as I have been between other things. Anyway, Perfect Dark is a perfect (sorry for the pun) example of where such glitches can go way out of hand. Although I thought of taking it down at one point, I kept the "776 days" glitch on my site for historical purposes. I am not responsible for anything you do with the glitch, so it is at your own risk. If you mess with it, you will see why I do not discuss which other games have glitches as severe as this one. You have been warned. :-) |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/19/10 at 08:57:06 212B383E2F38152C382F2B214A0 wrote:
Once again, this thread flies too fast. I will just say the shortcut would have been a lot more significant in 1997. Nowadays, it would still be faster than what's out there, but not by nearly as much as it used to be. Specifying time in seconds or percentages would say too much right now. Sorry, I can't budge there right now. Isn't it sufficient enough to say it is potential WR material? :-) |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by finn on 05/19/10 at 10:32:06 I accept that there may be good reasons not to publicize. but I take it that no such good reasons apply in this case, or else it would be meaningless to promise the revealing of it as a sort of prize for letting you win. That taken care of, I totally agree with Tom. He argues well, so I see no need to repeat his reasoning. This stinks, and I can only hope it's a joke! edit: I'll just underline one point, though. Quite apart from what I think about hiding strats, I find it disgusting that you are willing to distort the competition. I think that's pretty disrespectful of those who spend a lot of time and energy making it happen, and I really do hope the thought of that will make you reconsider. finn |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/19/10 at 11:51:18 Obviously this "fun" campaign has stirred quite a bit of controversy here, given its quick rise to the top in post count and view count. I will attempt to add a poll to get an idea of how this "campaign" is being received. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by The Gaff on 05/19/10 at 12:55:10 i've just read the poll options. I really dont see the option for "do you think I should just release my knowledge of the SC to the community right this second as its what i should've done 5 years ago?" |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Pleiades on 05/19/10 at 13:23:51 694C5B4449727A4243432D0 wrote:
[smiley=lolk.gif] [smiley=lolk.gif] Hey Wonn, wanna know what the square root of your faggotry level is? |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Michael on 05/19/10 at 13:50:41 Yeah, as Tom said, I miss a poll option too: "yes, you have crossed the line. You can stay in the contest but please change your campaign" I'd say: First decide for yourself if you want to release your knowledge it or not. If you don't want to release it (which I still find very hard to imagine), don't do it and don't post about it here. If you want to release it, do it within a reasonable amount of time: either right now (best option) or if you want to build up some suspense do it within a few weeks. If you really want to build it into your campaign, you could announce that you'll release it soon after the contest, no matter what happens, but that if you win some rounds you'll post it on a day of one of your wins to celebrate the win. Btw, interesting how i need such a lame topic to get me back to posting here... ::) |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Pleiades on 05/19/10 at 13:54:40 070A070D12091408460 wrote:
you tell his ass, alaktorn. all the newfags kiss his ass whos the first one not to,? ALAKTORN HOLY FUCK. fuckin' miracles. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by MVT on 05/19/10 at 15:14:42 Wonn this may sound like an obscure comparison and you probably won't even understand what I am referring to, but you sound quite a lot like the 15 year old mkwii hackers who claim glitches and never reveal them or destroy the Nintendo top 10 charts for their own self interest. These people are the most hated members of the mkwii community by a mile. These people often view things through very strange lenses where they are right no matter what argument is thrown at them and they enjoy dangling things over people to control them. Basically the connection is that you are dangling this shortcut over our heads just to get votes and win this contest. The most respected members of the community have given their honest opinions and the overwhelming majority of folks think it is completely wrong of you to hide this shortcut in the first place. It's also very bothersome that you seem to be implying that there are way more than one shortcut you are hoarding in your 1997 vault. You are viewing everyone's opinions through a really distorted lens where a decision you made in 1997 is being stuck to like glue to this day. Wouldn't 13 years of further maturity be enough for you to rethink such a choice? Pretty much I have seen so many people who speak very similar to you in the mario kart wii community. This scenario may be slightly different with the amount of time that you have held these glitches and shortcuts away but you are no different than a little kid immaturely toying with very respected community members. You ignore all of what they have to say and only look out for your own self interest. It's really sad that someone your age would still do this. To address 2 claims you made. The shortcuts / glitches are flukes - I highly doubt that these are flukes. Of course if you are the only one who ever tried to do it and as you said you haven't played the game since 2003 then how can you expect to perform this "fluke" again with such minimal effort? If a whole community is trying for it I am sure it would be performed quite quickly. This fabled KD SC is clearly not common knowledge. You say you revealed it but there is no guide anywhere available on the internet to perform it or even a general idea to allow people to TRY it. It's a shame that you claim such a shortcut to be revealed yet almost no one knows anything about it. This stuff will destroy the game! - If this stuff is game destroying I really don't think you have anything to worry about. The whole community really wants you to reveal so the responsibility and blame will fall into our hands for pushing you to reveal if these glitches and shortcuts turn out to be so devastating. I can't imagine them being so bad, but it's the community's fault if they are not yours. That's my honest opinion. I hope you choose to reveal all of your hidden glitches and shortcuts no matter the outcome of this contest. 1997 is long gone, time to make new choices and modern day decisions. Straighten out your moral compass because it's pretty screwed up right now. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Ivootjes on 05/19/10 at 15:33:04 By far the most interesting campaign topic thus far! All the drama about something that's your own choice to reveal or not. I love it. Wonn, you've got my vote |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/19/10 at 16:38:43 44757C7C44717C75100 wrote:
Wow, I am surprised that some are interpreting things this way (and yes, I read your whole comment.) Those who have known me well enough over the years (especially in the high ranks in this community) know that this is not how I am; in fact I despise the tactics of these "script kiddie"-types you are referring to. I have avoided playing Kart Wii online for the reason you mention. At least the Brawl hackers can't impact people's scores since scores aren't even kept, so I have played that game online without worries of these hacker-wannabes messing with my stats. Yes, I enjoy exploiting glitches and shortcuts whenever possible. However, when playing people in person or over ZSNES (back in the day), I generally do not use them, unless I am playing against skilled players who are aware of the shortcuts. I always make the rules clear before playing. If I wanted to "dangle" these shortcuts over people's heads as you suggest, I would have done that years ago. That is not how I am. Some people are taking this kart contest more seriously than I could have imagined. I see it as nothing more than a popularity contest. I stayed out of the previous ones. Now this time I decide to experiment and try something that hasn't been tried by others, and people are immediately concluding there is malicious intent. Is this karter contest really taken so personally? I am just having fun with it, but not everyone agrees. In good faith, I have gone through old college e-mails to find the Kalimari Desert fluke shortcut that was unveiled to the community. I won't copy-paste all the e-mail addresses I sent this to for obvious reasons, but Andy Launspach, Kevin Booth, Dirk Wegener, Jerad Rose, and Chuck T. are just a few names that will be familiar to many in this community. Here are some snippets: Quote:
So yes, this was spread to the (then smaller) community. The MK64EC, headed by ItsaMePete, was one of the communities to respond saying that they would get to work on it right away. They were somewhat similar to a glitch-hunting community for the time. Nobody from their community or anywhere else ever did manage to recreate the shortcut. I did not regain access to the Internet until the following April. By that point in time, the Kart 64 community had mostly forgotten about it and moved on. And the rest, as they say, is history. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Etch on 05/19/10 at 16:47:51 This potential sc has been well known but like you said, how is another story. :P Some wiener kid spent like a year trying to do it, no success. We laughed at his expense of course. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by MVT on 05/19/10 at 17:03:35 Well Wonn you addressed about half my post. The important half though you avoided. [smiley=thumbdown.gif] |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by David Wonn on 05/19/10 at 17:47:40 5F6E67675F6A676E0B0 wrote:
My last post was already long enough, so bear with me. Regarding the flukes, I have no better term for the shortcuts that are only ever hit once or twice. As previously mentioned, the Kalimari one was sent to the community. Later on, I decided to unveil flukes to certain key people. I was very protective on how discoveries were revealed, as I learned the hard way on what happens when you carelessly leak them on places like Nintendo's BBS. Such experiences have significant impact on how we do things, so you would have to understand that. The community of the late 90s understood this and respected my views. For the most part, they left it at that, although rumors would still manage to leak in the 2000s to newer members that I still knew undocumented things about kart. After retiring a few times from kart, this has mostly been left as is. Now we are in 2010, and I understand the community is different now. I don't expect the newer people (2000s and later) to fully understand why things happened they way they did, since they happened so long ago from their perspective. Now I finally get around to giving back to the community once more, and my intentions are misinterpreted. Do you think this backlash against me (from a small, but vocal minority) makes me want to reveal stuff even more or less? And yes, some glitches out there are quite destructive to competitive gaming. You are already seeing a taste of it in the Wii community. So yes, these Wii hacker wannabes may have some things in common with me in regards to exploiting glitches, but they lack some very important attributes: Restraint, moral ethics, integrity, and trust. If you don't see this distinction, then I am sorry that you do not know the true David Wonn. Ask the true old-schoolers (90s and back) if you still cannot take my word for it. Again, in good faith, I will let the poll continue for a while, so please give honest answers if you have a strong opinion one way or another. If a good majority truly thinks this campaign is unfair, I will either change it or withdraw it. Thank you everyone who has supported me. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Kevin Booth on 05/19/10 at 20:12:18 wow, and once again the kart contests bring out old stuff from the past. Anyhow, I can confirm that he has legitimate "secret shortcuts". Hell, there are other karters that have some too... I wish one of them was me, but ya, I could never keep one to myself, cause I'm too much of a glory hound, and have to have people talking about me all the time, so there is no way I could keep anything of my own a secret. Wonn showed me all the stuff in my visit in the year 2000 spanning pretty much any game you could imagine. Lots of glitches, and even powerful strats and such in some popular titles. As far as my view on it... I am mixed on it. Whalls often criticizes me on this one, and he does have a point that since I did set the example to always share my stuff, and encourage others to, then I should be totally hating on Wonn, since well, wasn't that the reason I was irritated with Gallo? So ya, maybe I do have a bias there, cause well heck, Wonn is a huge reason I got into Kart 64. Probably second only to Tyler Stobbe really, my local friend. Cause it was his water shortcuts in KB1 and VL2 that Tyler used to me that brought the whole Wonn and Cambellsville bunch stuff to the surface, and from then on, I wanted to make sure I was the very best ever in Kart 64... well... I was for 2 years, at least. So ya, I guess I'm biased, I'll admit it, but I do see your guys' point, cause hell if it's me, you know I'd tell ya, but I have began to accept after 1000s of members that people are not always like me, and it's ok for me to disagree, but still be their friend (although it's hard, trust me) :) So ya, I hope he does reveal it, but just keep in mind, he can only theorize how it works, cause it only worked like once I think. Still though, if he says the track, you pretty much can think of it anyhow, it's just a matter of doing it. I'll give you all one for free though, that was told to me by Ben Miller a long time ago. He has had ONE successful land, but that's it! CM SC #? Start by doing the race normally until you go past the underpass and then turn around and face the underpass in the direction you would basically be going to the start finish line. From here, what you want to do, is bounce off the rocks before the tunnel, and have it side scroll you through the actual tunnel wall and the advance through the blank terrain and eventually go in the mystery water. If you get high enough, and go far enough, you may be able to catch the corner of the extended over and down finish line and skip a lap. then you'll get placed back, and you basically repeat this 2 more times for what like a 40 second race or less? Anyhow, that should tide ya over for now, but if anyone recreates it, make sure to thank Ben Miller. But ok, I will make an exception... I think stuff like the Perfect Dark Virus should not be shared, other than be warned not to do x thing, and leave it at that. Before my HD got messed up, I actually have the dex drive for the virus save. Seriously, an N64 virus? Nasty! or ya, things like being able to go to message boards and delete posts or reading peoples MB stuff (loudhouse 1997), are things that were best for us not to share with everyone :) I think the NOA's would have sued us if they knew we were reading up on them! EDIT: oh yes, There might be a Kevin Booth/David Wonn ticket for president in 2012 :) |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Pleiades on 05/20/10 at 00:21:31 My main gripe with you is how you are disrespecting and shitting on the competition. Post fucking child porn on the boards.. call finn a faggot.. but never, ever disrespect the god damn competition man whats wrong with you? :-/ |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by The Gaff on 05/20/10 at 00:51:28 I can't work out if you're being antagonistic on purpose or not. I'll try to break down some of these points without quoting directly. 1) When compared to a mkwii hacker you jump on it as a saving grace suggesting that you see what they are doing as detrimental and use that as an excuse for not revealing your glitches/sc's. However, this is a totally different game with a totally different mechanism. Cheating to get on the leader boards can work on mkwii, it can't on mk64 so easily. 2) We have been able to TAS now for quite some time. In certain games we've pulled apart the actual coding to see what is possible and what is not, i'm sure if you gave us an idea we could work together as community to figure out how to recreate your fluke quite easily. 3) Stop talking about game breaking glitches.. ffs.. the PD or DKC glitches bare no relevance in this conversation. This is about the MK glitches you know which are relevant to this community. As a side note, if you knew a MK glitch which would break the game/machine then tell people what it is anyway, its upto the individual if they want to break the game. 4) You talk about how the community was different back then, yes it was, and I was there from about '98/'99 and I dont remember any board posts on the-elite.net polling or even bringing up these possible SC's. So you just kept them to yourself which amounts to whoaring strats/potential or not. fuck it, i will quote you Quote:
I said from my first post - this is not about the contest at all in my opinion. This is about information you have knowingly/purposefully kept from the MK community for over 10 years. However, If you want to use it as your campaign then go for it. I think you just lost 99% of votes from the MK64 community because they think you're a cunt for keeping the SC's hidden all these years. Quite ironic that what you thought would make you popular is having the complete oppposite effect. To be honest, i've always respected you all these years for your amazing abilities to break games/glitches etc but now I've got no time for you. oh - and as a last point, so gracious of you to reveal that you once made it through the tracks on KD. So much information, which character, which area of the track etc. If you remember you should start there with what specifics you do know. If you can't remember then it just goes to show you should've said it at the time when you did remember. [smiley=chairshot.gif] |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by shadow on 05/20/10 at 02:32:16 1732253A370C043C3D3D530 wrote:
I didn't really want to get into this, but I have to pick you up on this one point. "Now I finally get around to giving back to the community". But this isn't what you're doing. There are people giving back to the community every day here. Times updaters on all the sites, news writing, strat finding across the board, vid uploading. Alex, Sami, Michael, Tom, Etch, Zoran, Robin, Zack, Howes, Shock...and about 50 other people. These people are giving up their time and their insight without wanting anything in return. Your campaign is "I will give back to the community if I win the competition". That's an entirely different thing. You can use it as a campaign tool, but don't wrap it up like it's a gift. I think this is why people are a little wound up. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] I know it's different now than it was in the 90s, and I'm really glad it is. It was stupidly ridiculous back then. Nobody was sharing anything with anyone, or if they were, it was sent to 1 or 2 people along with a vow to secrecy. Was I the first person to discover the ghost trick on BC? No, Ben Miller said to me "Steven has a way of getting rid of the thwomps, but he swore me to secrecy so I can't say what it is". [smiley=uzi.gif] Just utter bullshit. The strat page was originally written because I was fed up with all the secrecy in the community from people who wanted to maintain their edge over the competition. This topic has just reminded me again of those annoying days. [smiley=bath.gif] |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by KoopZ on 05/20/10 at 07:36:04 to re-emphasize tom's point: we can determine the validity of your SCs MUCH more easily these days. so i agree with him and many others who have said that they see no point in you hiding them much longer. its not like you're not going to get the proper credit for said SCs either, assuming they work. i really do not see a point in concealing them any longer. i will prolly still vote for you, but i see now that whalls really wasnt joking a whole lot when he wrote that first fake chat. [smiley=dead.gif] |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Fw_Shock on 05/20/10 at 08:02:04 Wonn, I respect the fact that you are a good MK64 and SMK player, from what I can tell from what I've read, but I agree with many of the points presented so far. I do not play those games very much, and I probably won't be playing SC, but I think using this kind of tactic in a campaign isn't... following the mores of this board. To put this into an analogy, suppose you found a large deposit of gold. However, you can only get so much from it. Do you take what you can, then keep it a secret from the rest of the world and try to use it for exploiting purposes later? Or, do you take the gold, and out of the "goodness of your heart" reveal it to the public? The second option clearly is the better one, and although this is a rather silly, hypothetical situation, I hope you apply the same principle to this. - Shock |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by marinous on 05/20/10 at 08:16:55 The story with the gold made me agree with mr. Wonn ;D |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by shadow on 05/20/10 at 08:51:09 I'd vote for someone sharing gold. :D |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by ALAKTORN on 05/20/10 at 09:03:36 wow, Wonn, you must be retarded, everyone here is trying to make you understand how stupid you're being, and from your replies it seems like you don't even care :-/ very sad |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by TJazZ on 05/20/10 at 10:38:00 Protip: Instead of : "If you vote for me, I will unveil a new sc I've been hoarding. [smiley=ninja.gif]" Try this: "Hey, look guys. I found a new sc. AGAIN. Here it is. You should vote for me now. [smiley=happy.gif]" It's easier to be the good guy and get votes this way, IMO. I know the contest is not the broader issue here but everything has been said already on hoarding strats/SC's. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by AlexPenev on 05/20/10 at 11:24:18 I just felt like posting in this thread because all the other cool people were doing it. (Even Michael!) |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Jonesy on 05/20/10 at 12:21:15 ^ What Penev said. In regards to the strat whoarding, I think the argument has been argued extensively enough that it's generally not considered the right thing to do. I remember talking to Wonn 10 years ago about his "secret SCs" and it was fun for a while trying to think of where they might be and hoping that I could be the one to recreate it. But now, it's just time to come out with whatever information you have and let the community see what they can do with it, for better or for worse. If the community is successful with recreating it then you'll have another SC chalked up to your credit, if you continue to keep it to yourself you will only engender more wrath from the community. If it's your legacy that concerns you, then the choice seems apparent. Also, in regards to the Miller SC that Booth mentioned. I worked with Miller on CM and LR trying to find new SCs on those tracks for about 2 months with no success (albeit I believe we got pretty close). Now with emulators, those two specific spots have been tested to death with various tools and still no SCs have been found so I'd chalk those up to being officially debunked. Finally, in regards to the KD fence hop, I know plenty of people have tested that thing to death and IMHO, if Wonn did in fact fluke it once, it's most likely a pixel-specific glitch that will not likely be useful in normal time trialing. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by cutz22 on 05/20/10 at 13:44:54 It's entirely your discovery and yours to do what you wish with it. Though it is rather dickish to tell everyone on the board that you found it but are not going to tell us. |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Etch on 05/20/10 at 14:01:39 494C454146280 wrote:
Heehee... I remember talking to you awhile back about the Millerstyle on LR. If it has been tas'd to death, then triggering the next lap from below dooms this shortcut possibility. Only way I see this working is if you get some insane mega jump and can curve back into the tunnel to skip more than half of the track. Last year, Karlo made a topic about finding new shortcuts and I stumbled upon that CM one myself. My intention was to jump up to the finish line directly from below but fell through the wall instead. It's not hard to fall past the finish line this way but I don't know what the checkpoint is and like LR it doesn't seem possible to count the lap up this way. But there is hope! A few times I got big double bounces like you would get for Mylestyle on LR there. If you can aim it just right it might be possible to hop straight back up or find some weird spot so that lakitu puts you behind the finish line. It would take a giant fluke hit but the lap will count. Still waiting to see a shortcut no one has posted or talked about before. :P |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by thewebinator on 05/20/10 at 14:03:55 6B646E7360667F646E6F6F640A0 wrote:
I think most people probably would keep the gold. [smiley=flush.gif] |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Shock on 05/20/10 at 16:32:54 ^ Yes, lol that is so true. I can see why so many people do it. However, in that statement, I was trying to show that the first choice would get terrible headlines in the newspaper for example, compared to the popularity the second choice would receive. Since this is his campaign thread, and he is going for popularity... |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by thewebinator on 05/20/10 at 16:43:41 Yeah, I was just being annoying ;D |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Patricio on 05/20/10 at 17:36:45 Wonn this is the same old crap you've been saying for years. Honestly I'll bet this shortcut isn't even close to working or revolutionary. The last 10 years you come on here and tell us about all these "Secrets" well what is the point if you're not going to share them. That's like when someone in a group of friends say "Oh I was gonna say something but never mind". For this purpose I am not voting for you. All this seems to be is the same tired shit you've done for years. Bragging about your secrets and bragging about you're glory days. Kind of like "Oh I knew about the band when they were good but now they suck cause everyone knows." Ya we get it, you were one of the first people on the Kart site. Seriously man just stop. This is not meant to be hurtful just I am getting sick of this. It's not 1997 anymore. By the way. Wonn where were you when YV SC, FS SC and CM new strat were discovered? |
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Title: Re: My pathetic attempt at a campaign Post by Kevin Booth on 05/20/10 at 19:37:49 David Wonn is going to post a recant. Go ahead and make further responses on that new topic. |
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