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Mario Kart >> Super Mario Kart >> The pipehit
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Message started by KartSeven on 02/02/07 at 12:55:35

Title: The pipehit
Post by KartSeven on 02/02/07 at 12:55:35

First of all, I made the same topic on French forum here (http://www.championnat-smk.org/forum/index.php?topic=1332.0). My English's level isn't sufficiently good to do a correct translation, so I just say the main things (and maybe someone will be able to do the translation after :-[) :

Pipehit is forbidden on non-NBT site, but nothing is written on NBT site ! It's a technique, where you can hit a pipe and cross the sand without losing speed. A lot of players had to see that at MC4's last corner for example. My 1'15"93 non-NBT at MC2 (http://www.timeofdeath.net/smk/Pierre_MC2_nonnbt_11593.WMV) contains a pipehit at 4th lap. If you don't win time and if it's involuntary, we can accept it. But Krysster (Christophe on the site) has the idea to do voluntary pipehits. His example is at MC1. He wants to build a boost after 1st corner, do a pipehit at 2nd corner, then cut a lot of sand with pipehit's effect and finally launch the boost after pipehit's effect (as a slideboost, where the boost starts after the end of slide's effect)... We still don't know if we really can win time with this strat, but I think it's possible !

So I create this topic to have your opinion ! There is nothing to say about this strat, or do we have to forbid it, to still keep some pure driving for Time Trial ? Of course, if we forbid it, it can always be added on trick/glitch WRs...

IMO, I'm against this strat, cos it removes some pure driving spirit... It's almost like a glitch. Or like breaking blocks on GVs to do faster flaps... :-/

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Firewaster on 02/02/07 at 13:21:27

I'm 99% sure it would work.
I can say the same about MC4's second corner, I even tried to do it some times...
Well, the effects are unknown.
I think the kart loses a bit of speed on the hit, and you get back a bit before going ahead again...
Well, anyway I don't think that should be allowed.

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by mountaindewdude on 02/02/07 at 13:33:43

I think we should allow it to keep it simple because SMK graphics suck so bad, sometimes I don't know when I hit a pipe or not.

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by rufen87 on 02/02/07 at 13:48:43

Longboosting is allowed, I don't see why this wouldn't be.
I had some attemps at it a few years back on MC1. Never got it well enough so it'd gain time.
But with a boost built up, maybe.

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Sami - Godfather of SMK on 02/02/07 at 19:45:04

With boost maybe a little otherwise it prob put you back at position where you were but yes prob keep it simple for now driving as we are without it.

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Alencar Faria on 02/02/07 at 20:19:35

I'm playing MC1 in this moment....and lose 20 sub 57 in the last lap..

In some of the laps..the pipehit with jump give some power....

Very usefull :) Must be allowed :)

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Eoj on 02/03/07 at 00:54:01

I don't give a fuck anymore. There will ALWAYS be a new strat for MC1, but only a certain few will uitilize it. Do whatever you want; nothing matters now...

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by KVD on 02/03/07 at 02:59:57

I will reserve my judgement untill I've seen the strategy winning time. This will mean that I will try it myself and get a feeling for it to see what it's like.
I think I'll vote no though; looking back at it I think allowing IB was a mistake as well. In my mind it's says a lot that two weeks after the invention of the strategy almost no one of the top players has touched it anymore.

It's too late to change that now though, I reckon.

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Sami - Godfather of SMK on 02/03/07 at 04:44:47

Well it was just one track for something interesting, and yeh cant go back cos its sorta been achieved now so thats that.

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by KartSeven on 02/03/07 at 06:56:08

KVD wrote:

looking back at it I think allowing IB was a mistake as well.

I agree. IB is clearly a bug, and you can't do it in another Mario Kart. LB is different, cos it's highly taken again at MKSC. But about the pipehit ? :-? Is it used on another Mario Kart ? There is the problem to know if the pipehit is really natural or not. And I find it isn't. :-/

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Sami - Godfather of SMK on 02/03/07 at 08:08:36

True, but like i was saying with Karel, it is just one thing (IB) on TT for MC2 lap so it makes that one something different. And well there are some differences between the games anyway, tunring angles for one thing.

As for the pipe hit, Karel is not sure if it is worth to save anything and even if it did 0.02 say, it would be hard to keep consistent for all the laps hitting pipes and stuff, its glitchy.

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by KVD on 02/03/07 at 09:48:12

KartSeven wrote:

But about the pipehit ? :-? Is it used on another Mario Kart ? There is the problem to know if the pipehit is really natural or not. And I find it isn't. :-/

I agree, it isn't natural. I think MKSC has something similar with tree ticking, no? And it's banned from the main site I think...you can probably confirm that Pierre, because I don't know what I'm talking about as an MKSC noob. :P

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Chris on 02/03/07 at 10:17:21

I think it should be allowed. Accidental pipe-hits/wall-hits are allowed on the Non-NBT site. Even intentional iceblock-hits are allowed so that you can drive through snow without losing speed for a short time. I don't know if it's a bug/glitch or not, but it's a part of the game and a strategy we all use when we take a turn too tight on a corner where there's a wall or a pipe.
I remember Jonathan Girard used an intentional pipehit for his MC1 times. Also, what about that "mystery boost" in MK64? Was that achieved by releasing an MT after barely hitting the wall or something?

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by KVD on 02/03/07 at 10:23:40

Chris wrote:

I think it should be allowed.

I'd agree if it's the innocent one, that can be used as a last resort or can even happen by accident. But planned ones to save loads of time; that I do have trouble with (if it would be possible to win loads of time that is, but right now Krysster is saying it is).

I expect hitting a pipe and hoping for an LB to come out would just be plain annoying and too random. I know I was happy that advantageous LBs weren't possible for all other tracks anyway, but that might be about to change.

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Chris on 02/03/07 at 11:02:53

If they can save loads of time then I might have a different opinion. :)
I guess I'll have to wait and see how this unfolds.

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by KartSeven on 02/03/07 at 11:06:36

About MKSC, yeah wall (or tree) -ticking is forbidden for the main site... About iceblock-hits, we allowed them cos these ice-blocks are an obstacle, not a track's delimitation as GV's blocks. Pipes are also obstacles, but they didn't remove when we hit them. So it's a fix part of the track and I think it's natural to not use them to improve times. :P

When you hit a GV block which can be advantageous when it removed, you give up the race. I remember a 12"32 at GV2 without platform (some months before the official one at World Wide Kart Meet) : only ONE block was removed, but it was the most important one, at 2nd corner... So I didn't count it. It has to be similar for an advantageous pipehit. Just an ask in good faith...

About MC1, Krysster did some tests at 4th corner, and he thinks 11"2x PAL can be possible on PAL with just one pipehit ! :o

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Sami - Godfather of SMK on 02/03/07 at 17:34:39

Very difficult to decide here... Of course this could change a few things on a few tracks if used, ideally we want to keep things simple.

The kart goes in a long boosting motion then and for how long?

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by KartSeven on 02/04/07 at 01:50:57

It's about the same length than a slide, when it's realized perfectly.

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Chapolin on 09/23/07 at 09:56:53

Hey guys..about this....We have something objective?

I'm sure that is possible win time (or not lost so most).

I will post a video soon....I did an accidental pipehit and, even with a not so good way, the time was good.

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Happy on 09/23/07 at 10:18:18

In my opinion NBT should allow everything. And non-NBT should just be about pure driving skills (no boosts etc).

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Alvin van Asselt on 09/23/07 at 21:38:52

Well, to be honest, I once did a pipe hit, a few months ago :-[. It was at VL1, the last corner. I thought it was snowsliding :-[ But don't worry, I beat it many, many times.

My opinion: Very poor players always hit pipes and they could get off the track. So I think it may only be allowed in non-NBT if you don't go off the road. This also counts for NBT because if it's allowed the best players will only do pipehits to cut the corners. It isn't fun anymore than, especially if you see the vids.

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by In Hiding on 09/24/07 at 04:40:33

sami, as mksc and smk are similar in some senses i would probably like to come to an agreement on both sites for this type of play to keep it consistent and allow cross over from both sites.

imho, i can see this going either way

1) it is pretty much exactly the same as long boosting (and no less natural than infinite boost!)
2) I'd like to ban it because it is hardly natural and we've spent alot of time on the mksc rules to try and make it about driving, not ticking.

for the record - i'm not sure if this works in mksc or not but it was something i suggested might work a few years ago and is likely it would be a time saver if used in the right way.

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by SMK_POWERHOUSE on 09/27/07 at 10:43:01

In my opinion pipehits are just another part of the game to be mastered and that seems to be in line with the spirit of NBT

Dan Hanson

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Chrono Krysster on 01/25/17 at 21:30:59

7A504345625447545F310 wrote:

But Krysster (Christophe on the site) has the idea to do voluntary pipehits. His example is at MC1. He wants to build a boost after 1st corner, do a pipehit at 2nd corner, then cut a lot of sand with pipehit's effect and finally launch the boost after pipehit's effect (as a slideboost, where the boost starts after the end of slide's effect)... We still don't know if we really can win time with this strat, but I think it's possible !

Oh my gosh, already 10 years about that [smiley=roll.gif]

Title: Re: The pipehit
Post by Aron Langerak on 01/26/17 at 08:35:30

65636673647B77647F796179647A72160 wrote:

I think we should allow it to keep it simple because SMK graphics suck so bad, sometimes I don't know when I hit a pipe or not.

;D ;D ;D