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Mario Kart MB
https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl Historical >> Karter Contest 2K6 >> The contestants... https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1152341370 Message started by Gregor Fran on 07/07/06 at 22:49:30 |
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Title: The contestants... Post by Gregor Fran on 07/07/06 at 22:49:30 Whoever chose the people for this contest really screwed things up. It's no big deal that I wasn't selected but the matchups just plain suck. I could think of a number of people who should have been chosen and wasn't. You've got inactive time hoarders who hardly ever post at all, people with barely enough proof to stay in the charts, etc. I know the selection is based on a number of different criteria, but to ignore people who have contributed far more to the community (both in help and in humor) is lame. Use me as an example, I contribute to the boards when I can, I'm the only person to give an internationally syndicated interview on the radio concerning kart, the first person ever to have a complete 32/32 collection of high quality MKDD videos, I've helped build kart related websites, and mentioned this website in person to Morgan Webb and Adam Sessler of Xplay (a videogame show that airs in the US). Who do I credit in everything I do? Mark Jones and everyone else responsible for making this website happen. Instead, you pick strategy hoarders, people with few or no videos, and assholes. I just used me as an example, but there are others out there who are far more viable canditates than what you selected. It really puts people down when they go through the effort to make this website great, and no one recognizes their work... |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Nathan Cromwell on 07/07/06 at 22:54:31 jealous much |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Robin on 07/07/06 at 23:40:20 There are over a thousand people involved with the kart sites. The people setting this up had to choose only 64. Of course some people who make big contributions will be left out. When the first round ends and only 32 are left, basically all 32 of the people left will be people that everyone who has been here for a while knows by name. So even if you do deserve to have been inside the contest, if the people who set this up forgot you, then it's unlikely you would have won a match anyway. And calm down, it's just a contest. For fun. Not meant to get people upset. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by su11y on 07/07/06 at 23:50:01 Gregor Fran wrote:
It already says in the main thread who selected the field. Sorry for not making you happy. Gregor Fran wrote:
If you are at all concerned about the matchups themselves (not just the players selected), it might be useful to know that the matchups were drawn randomly while still preserving seeding. Gregor Fran wrote:
We tried very hard to select the best possible group for this contest. There was a lot of back and forth between the group of us over the course of several weeks in the process of picking players for the contest and then seeding them. Gregor Fran wrote:
I agree. We tried not to do this. Gregor Fran wrote:
Well I'm sorry that I dont have the biographical details of every member of the community memorized. How could I possibly know all of that? Gregor Fran wrote:
I feel like we selected the majority of the people responsible for making this website happen. Gregor Fran wrote:
You've listed service to the site as the most important criteria for the decision. Keep in mind that this is a "Popularity Contest" and not a Site Awards Ceremony. Gregor Fran wrote:
Indeed. ;) |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Gregor Fran on 07/08/06 at 01:07:20 I understand that this is a popularity contest, not a contribution or best karter contest and what I wrote above wasn't a plea to get myself in nor written out of jealousy (had I been included I would have ultimately lost somewhere along the lines). I was just saying that the nominations were less than perfect that's all. Edit: Thanks for the response Mark. I understand the difficulty and logistics of trying to keep the selections down to a reasonable number and respect the ultimate choices. I was just voicing an opinion and not trying to stir up trouble. Let the voting continue... |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Mark Jones on 07/08/06 at 01:10:21 If it makes you feel any better Greg, you did make the list of 72... However, you didn't place in the top 4 of the 8 person poll (http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1151133288). If you had you would have been in one of the 4 play-in matchups. The selection committee included: Sean Sullivan (runs MKDS site) Sami Cetin (runs SMK site) Alex Penev (runs MKDD site + hugely involved with all other sites) Michael Liem (effectively runs MK64 site) Michael Fried (topped ranked player in all games plus hugely involved with community) Jon Barber (didn't really select members but helped us in the process of setting up the contest) And myself Some players were given automatic bids into the field based on their performance in the contest 2 years ago (top 16) and some players were given automatic bids based on being one of the top players in their perspective ranks. If some of the players achieved their rankings by hoarding or other non-ethcial means none of the selection committee members who are responsible for their sites (Alex, Sami, Sean, Michael) mentioned any opposition of the inclusion of an auto-bid player due to those reasons. I myself cannot speak on that issue as I do not follow the submission of times for all the games all that closely. After the autobids were determined all of us brought names to the table and we even allowed people to bring forth nominations for people we may have overlooked. We all then debated and discussed who should be included in the field of 64. There are just way too many people for everyone to be included and I could name names until I was blue in the face but that wouldn't do anyone much good. I'm sorry if anyone is disappointed and I don't think anyone should feel hurt by not being included. If it makes you feel any better, Andy Launspach, basically one of the people who if weren't for him, none of this might be taking place as we speak didn't even make the field. He was the original MK64 champion and created the very first Kart ranking site on the internet. However, no one in the selection committee even mentioned his name. I thought about him when creating my initial list, then I thought about how he did in the contest 2 years ago and how no one voted for him. Then I decided to pick someone else because I knew for a fact there is no way Andy would have won his matchup. So does that make him not worthy of being included? No sir. It just means to have an interesting relevant contest you need interesting relevant contestants. If you have any other suggestions or comments please feel free to share them. However, I think our committee did a fine job with picking a field. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Thomas_vL on 07/08/06 at 01:23:26 There's another point, one that Gregor didn't make. It concerns the "Favorite poster poll" at General Discussion: http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1151133288 The 4 players who won this poll (Hedley, Piet, Clark and myself), ended up in the 4 play-in matches at this contest. The other 4 (including Gregor) did not. Obviously the results of this poll were used then. However, this was a "favorite poster"-poll, not "favorite karter". But (in my book anyway) Gregor is known for more than just his posts, as he already mentioned himself. He'd do better as karter than (just) as poster. For what it's worth Gregor, you would've had my vote (well, depending on your opposition of course ;)). |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Mark Jones on 07/08/06 at 01:28:18 Part of the process was the surprise and I was trying not to give away the fact we were in the process of planning a full blown contest. If you read my actual post (not just the title of the topic) Quote:
I left it pretty open ended and included "community contribution" as a recommended criteria. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by jam117 on 07/08/06 at 01:29:18 Can I say something. Lots of the contestants currently have nothing to do with kart. Moreover, they have had nothing do do with kart in past 2 years, since the last contest which they were undoubtedly in. If keep on having karter contests, and select katers who have had nothing to do with kart recently, then there won't be much room for newer karters, unless we expand to 128 contenders. Therefore, I think all the contestants should have had something to do with kart in the past 2 years. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by jam117 on 07/08/06 at 01:34:54 Mark Jones wrote:
So the "Favourite Poster" thing was just a cover up? I didn't now about the contest untill just before it started, but had you been planning it for some time, and the "Favourite Poster" thing was a sort of hoax, to decide who was in the contest? Edit: Of couse! That's why there were no mods/admins, as they would be int he contest anyway. THe "secret prize" was being in the contest. The people who won in the poll filled the blank spaces in the contest. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Thomas_vL on 07/08/06 at 01:37:29 How about we (or I, with some help) hold an unofficial contest at General Discussion for those who didn't get selected for this one? |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Mark Jones on 07/08/06 at 01:41:44 Having a contest with karters that have only been active in the last 2 years would not result in the best contest. Just because you weren't around more than 2 years ago doesn't mean that there aren't people who have been around since 1997 and will vote based on 10 years worth of experiences. The poll was not a "hoax." I just was not explicit about what the winners would receive. I asked people to nominate based on a certain recommended set of criteria and if you notice almost everyone that was nominated was already in the contest (which only validates our selection process) and those not already in the contest received a chance to be in the contest by being one of the 8 people to vote on. You'll also notice a small backlash of the 8 choices for the poll as many people who were nominated were not options (because they were already in the contest) based on the selection committee's choicess - further validating our decisions. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by jam117 on 07/08/06 at 01:49:22 Well, maybe I used the wrong word. What I was saying was that the purpose of the "favourite poster" thing was for the karter contest, which you were already planning, but hadn't revealed. It was sort of to cover it up, and to do with the selection process. Basically you didn't want to ask the community who should be in the contest, but wanted to know their opinion, so you made the "favourite poster" thing. Edit: You made the Favourite Poster thing to stop arguments. If you had said "Who should be in the 2006 Karter Contest" people would have said "he should be in the contest" "no he shouldn't" "yes he should" and it would have turned into and argument. By having nominations, you were asking people who they thought was a good poster, not who deserved to be in a contest, hence, no arguments. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Mark Jones on 07/08/06 at 01:52:07 Thomas_vL wrote:
It's a free board... Go for it. (As long as it's not spam... then it may get deleted) |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by AlexPenev on 07/08/06 at 02:17:54 Isn't it obvious? Having Gregor in the tourney would have turned it on its head, and he would've clean us all up ;) Ok, no, seriously though, I vouched for Gregor and I had him in my top-10 from the non-auto-bids. The autobids were the top X karters in each game and the top Y finishers in the previous contest, and took up 38 positions. So the remaining 26 had to be shared between the forumites (rarely top karters, and not all of them were around or popular 2yrs ago) and historicals (who were popular in the previous contest anyway, but beaten by more current players). So oldies and newies and inbetweenies had to be squeezed into these 26. Trying to squeeze so many people in would obviously leave a few on the outside. The other thing was the implicit quotas, where we wanted to represent each group (MKSC, MKDS, SMK, MKDD, MK64, forum, historical) fairly, and not bias against someone. For example, I'm not too involved with SMK and haven't played the game, so I haven't heard of some of those entries. But SMK members will be furious if their top stars don't get consideration. Same for MKSC and MKDS. Even though MKDD is the bigger site, we had to limit the choices. So I could see why Mark made a poll (I commented on it, that he's use the results for "other" purposes), because the decisions were hard. The MKDD players included me, Tanney, Vince, Piet, TvL, Olivier, Marius, Steel, Bunde, Karlsson, Moritz, Cromwell. Some of these were automatically in for being top-ranked (MKSC in Cromwell's case), and some have coverage in other games (Trystan/mk64, Moritz/64, Karlsson/all of them?). It's really not that hard to exhaust the quotas. :-[ For the final MKDD choices, it would have been something along the lines of... Gregor vs Peruch, Piet and TvL (and vs some others that didn't get in). Peruch got in more or less for being Moly's first challenger in 2 years, and Piet and TvL had forum support. It was pretty narrow there, and you're one of the few people who has much of a case to be bitter for missing out, since you missed out by -><- that much. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Drunk Holy Moly on 07/08/06 at 03:12:30 Well, what i dont like that people of one mk game meet in the first or 2nd round already. It would be much better when people of different mk games meet. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Dr_Blueberry on 07/08/06 at 03:57:59 Gregor, I think you should thank me, because I was (as far as I know) the only one to nominate you for this poll: http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1151133288 The rules in the thread for nominations to the poll said that a player should have at least 200 posts. You had just 207, so it was probably hard for people to recognize you. I'm sure more people would like you if you become more active on the boards, because that's the only reason for not nominating you. This is why you're a great karter: You made a bunch of vids in 2005, have a 32/32 set of vids with good quality, are a terrific contributor to the MKDD USA-site, made Alex Penev's updates fun to read, because you were a active player, never make spam whenever you make a post now and then. You also have a great taste of music. But you have to make more posts to get known for that by people. I've noticed more activity lately. Keep it like that, and you'll be fine. ;) |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Patricio on 07/08/06 at 06:43:51 Therefore, I think all the contestants should have had something to do with kart in the past 2 years. I looked over the standings and pretty much everyone has had something to do with kart in the last 2 years. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by su11y on 07/08/06 at 07:22:07 Patricio wrote:
If they dont its likely they were from the top 16 in Karter Contest 2004 that we gave auto-bids to. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Squish on 07/08/06 at 15:49:40 Gregor Fran wrote:
I don't hoard strats and I have a few vids(of vs.), so are you calling me an asshole? :) |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Nathan Cromwell on 07/08/06 at 17:58:07 Squish wrote:
I don't hoard strats and I have a few vids(of vs.), so are you calling me an asshole? :)[/quote] of course your an asshole... isn't that what they call you when you get a squish on some kid snot nosed kid :P |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Jake Sopcak on 07/09/06 at 14:30:34 i completely agree with you gregor. Its nice to see you show some angry emotions too, ;D |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Gregor Fran on 07/09/06 at 19:38:31 I'm not really angry about anything but I think the nomination process could have been done better, that's all. If I could re-type my initial post, I would (but I wouldn't use myself as an example). All I did was draw unnecessary attention to myself rather than express the greater issue at hand. I really don't care if I wasn't nominated, but I thank everyone who suggested me and am glad I was considered. No hard feelings towards anyone. Mark did a good job explaining the process involved in nominating the candidates and others did also. There's not alot of point in complaining about things now as the contest is underway and really can't be changed. We must respect their decisions. Perhaps next time things could be different, I don't know. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate everyones work here and respect their decisions. Without them, this website wouldn't exist so let's just be glad it does... |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by su11y on 07/09/06 at 19:54:32 thanks gregor. i think it just comes down to.. decisions had to be made and we aren't perfect but we did try quite hard to get a good field. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Borgeman on 07/09/06 at 20:19:42 god, what a bunch of girls gregor you didnt get selected. have a cry, build a bridge and get over it. lots of people who who probably deserved to get picked didnt. boo hoo. im sure they have all jumped off a bridge by now. (sarcasm intended :P) honestly this was set up for fun. slight choice errors may/will happen. its not like the winner gets a paid holiday or anything. it is FOR FUN. if the organisers knew wat whinging this contest would cause i doubt they would have done it geez, relax everone George PS: no i wasnt slected :'( |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Bo Garman on 07/09/06 at 22:14:17 If you read Gregor's post you would have seen that he is not whining about not being selected; he was just voicing his opinion about the selection process as a whole. I agree with what he said, i don't think that the selections were as good as they could have been. Thats fine, i don't expect it to be perfect and I know you can't please everyone; The contest is underway, and I still am enjoying the contest; I think its a cool thing to do. Like gregor said, maybe somethings will change for next time, thats all |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Clark on 07/10/06 at 03:07:39 speaking about selections, who exactly are the seeds? and why do you need seeds? and who decided the seeds? and for what reasons? surely if the people who are the seeds are so popular they shouldnt need an easy matchup to get through, unless of course they are scared of going out to someone less well known. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Mark Jones on 07/10/06 at 05:02:56 For anyone criticizing the seletion process, that's all fine and well. I think if you want to criticize the process the best way to make a change would be to offer up a suggestion as to how it could be improved. However, I have yet to hear a suggestion of how we could have done that. So if you have any suggestions for how the selection of contestants in future contests can be improved then by all means... Clark: the seeds were also determined by the selection comittee. Each member ranked the top 16 players in the field and then we shared them with each other. From there we took the people who had the most support from across the board on a purely numerical scale and then discussed or voted a tie-break on any close calls. From there we were left with 48 players and ranked the next 16 and repeated the process until all 68 players had a seed. The seeds were then hidden on the bracket in an attempt not to anger anyone because of their seeding and to make things more interesting (so people wouldn't just vote a 1 seed over a 16 seed just based on their seed). |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Clark on 07/10/06 at 05:19:23 Thanks for clearing that up Mark. I still dont see the need for seedings tho. Im sure the most popular karter will win out regardless of seed. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Thomas_vL on 07/10/06 at 10:15:25 Thomas_vL wrote:
I didn't want to bring this back up again while I was in the contest, or people might think I'd just be saying this to get votes. ::) I'm still willing to put together a sub-contest, like a UEFA cup (do early drop-outs from the CL get to join too? :P). Although it would of course be less than half as slick and well-organized as the real thing. ;) No bio's, just polls at General Discussion. But maybe it would help to diminish the gap between being in the contest or not. Does anyone think this would be a good idea? Or not? If it's going to be, I'd need help of course. For one, I wouldn't always be able to open and close all the polls at the right time. Also, to help thinking of a good way to go about all this. There might be the need for (again) a selection committee. Or maybe that the list of nominees for the real contest would suffice? Who would be willing to help? Or are there suggestions? |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by su11y on 07/10/06 at 14:32:27 Clark wrote:
The seedings were put in place for the same reason any tournament is seeded, to prevent the best matchups from occuring in the opening rounds. While there is something to be said for the excitement of a completely random tournament, most tournaments are seeded for this simple reason. We did add a random element in that once the seeds were determined the matchups were randomized. For example, there are 4 7 seed and 4 10 seeds, and they are matched up against each other in random fashion. Yes the most popular karter will win out theoretically, but often people like to have the top 4 most popular reach the semifinals to face each other in big showdowns. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by P@UL on 07/10/06 at 14:38:08 Quote:
That's wrong for a start :P The people who made the contest know who should be in the contest , they must have stood out for to be chosen i guess. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Jason Foss on 07/10/06 at 16:33:15 Thomas_vL wrote:
I didn't want to bring this back up again while I was in the contest, or people might think I'd just be saying this to get votes. ::) I'm still willing to put together a sub-contest, like a UEFA cup (do early drop-outs from the CL get to join too? :P). Although it would of course be less than half as slick and well-organized as the real thing. ;) No bio's, just polls at General Discussion. But maybe it would help to diminish the gap between being in the contest or not. Does anyone think this would be a good idea? Or not? If it's going to be, I'd need help of course. For one, I wouldn't always be able to open and close all the polls at the right time. Also, to help thinking of a good way to go about all this. There might be the need for (again) a selection committee. Or maybe that the list of nominees for the real contest would suffice? Who would be willing to help? Or are there suggestions?[/quote] Hey Thomas I like that idea. I am enjoying the current Karter 2K6 and this would be a fun side thing for the ppl who didnt make it into the big dance. A few ideas: Have 4 ppl to a bracket (top 2 advance) Have 128 to 256 ppl (more the merrier) ... and if i think of anything else i will voice my opinion. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Bo Garman on 07/10/06 at 19:19:42 I've been thinking about what would be the best way to select contestants( maybe as a suggestion for next time) and I admit it is not easy. Some thoughts I had would be to further limit the amount of people who get in based on previous contests. Maybe the top 4 contestants of the previous contest would be a good cutoff. I just don't think that the top 16 of the last contest will necessarily be the best choices. Thats not to say that the others can't make it in, just that they won't get included automatically that way. Another idea might be to allow each section of kart to nominate a certain number of karters through poll or discussion, or any democratic way really. Basically, the smk community will nominate their favorite karters, and the mk64 community nominates their favorite.... and so on. This can be repeated in the general topic as well to pick up any other people who may have been left out. Anyway, i think this competition has turned out just fine (im excited about it 8-)), but I thought i'd offer some ideas anyway. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Gregor Fran on 07/10/06 at 20:21:59 There really is no perfect way to nominate people and undoubtedly people will be left out no matter how we do it, but I suggest next time allow it to be a little more democratic. I'm not following things too closely but from what I understand the people of the message board elected a whopping 4 players out of a total of 64 players. That's not many. Maybe next time 1/3 comes from previous contests, 1/3 is selected by moderators, 1/3 by the people. Something along those lines anyways. That's my suggestion for next time. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by su11y on 07/10/06 at 20:39:56 Gregor Fran wrote:
1/3 from previous contest is too much (as people are complaining about 1/4 being too much this time). Maybe next time we'll go to 128 karters to settle this dispute. the purpose of not having huge forum involvement was that this was supposed to be a suprise. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Gregor Fran on 07/10/06 at 20:57:17 Quote:
Quote:
It was mentioned in the March 1st, 2005 update (under the movies section). At the time it was me and Julien making the most videos, but he never completed his collection... I'm curious, who do you think did the complete collection first? |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by gingerscot on 07/11/06 at 07:42:31 Tanney had 32 videos first:p.......i presume anyway, it was a long time ago. I was slightly suprised to find my name in the list actually. I was pretty active for almost 2 years but recently my degree and now summer placement have caught up with me. I can understand gregor being miffed but there is no perfect system. It's always a problem when people who havn't been active for a long period but when they were contributed greatly to the comminuty etc. This is often unoticed obviously by newer members and theres not much anyone can do about it other then writing a short biography (which has been done). I better write one! Though i havn't had time to find out when my match-up is and i'm against marius so whats the point......:P Dave |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by AlexPenev on 07/11/06 at 10:56:46 You might be the only rocket scientists in our midst, so you could get lots of votes simply for the "Man, you're so totally wrong. I know a rocket scientist, and HE says..."-factor. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Gregor Fran on 07/11/06 at 22:26:53 gingerscot wrote:
Well it came from the horse's mouth that I was most likely the first (refer to the March 1st 05 update please). I may be wrong but I am using Penev's post as a reference for this fact. He knows more about the history of the game than I do so what he says goes, right? Tanney's GOD collection came later. Maybe he did videos before that, but neither Penev nor myself can remember a complete collection, otherwise he (Penev) would have mentioned it. I don't lie. If, in fact, my collection wasn't the first, I won't mention it again and kudos to whoever did it first. I just thought that to be true and have had no reason to believe otherwise. For all the other stuff I did, I will be happy to provide links to the interview I did. Unfortunately, I didn't bring recording equipment to my meeting with Sessler and Webb, but I did get their autographs, which I can show if desired. |
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Title: Re: The contestants... Post by Drunk Holy Moly on 07/12/06 at 05:15:58 btw. why is it important who had the 1st complete videoset? It doesnt matter really. |
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